NCclimber 0 #51 June 18, 2007 QuoteYou really are naive. If I relied heavily on dishonest labels and bullshit claims would that make me more worldly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #52 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI blame all the people who voted for Bush in the last two elections for our more recent international, economic, and constitutional problems. Blues, Dave What economic problems? Which of them are the fault of the current administration? Massive overspending. While it has been an on-again off-again problem for quite some time, responsibility for the current deficit rests on the shoulders of GWB and the people who elected him. Blues, Dave How has that impacted the economy? It's a dollars in versus dollars out issue. When a problem is measured in dollars, I consider it an economic problem. Would you have preferred I use the word "fiscal"? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #53 June 18, 2007 QuoteMany americans, however, have a desire for a king, and thus we cede more and more of the power reserved for the other branches of government to the president. This is a natural result of pack behavior; people want a "leader" to either follow or berate. It is, after all, easier to laud or condemn one person than an (often squabbling) legislature. That's the attitude we have to change if we want to return to the government that the authors of the Constitution envisioned. What he said. Our power is currently out of balance, and it's our fault. We should elect legislators who will work to restore balance such that the President is properly limited to those tasks for which he is suited and properly authorized. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #54 June 18, 2007 Quote>Until we undergo a cultural change we are not going to see another leader worthy of the office. And the first "cultural change" we must undergo is to lose the thinking that it's such an important office that you must be immensely qualified to fill such a lofty position. IMO, the problem in running for President has two interlinked factors. First, we're a voyeristic nation, in which the masses thrive on learning about other people's dirty laundry,... especially if it belongs to someone noteworthy. Secondly, the game of politics has become particularly nasty, effectively compelling many ambitious politicians to cater to my first point. Therefore, national candidates need a particularly thick skin and a willingness to expose their families also to abuse, if they want to play for the top spot. Oh yeah - there's that whole nasty business of funding your campaign, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #55 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI blame all the people who voted for Bush in the last two elections for our more recent international, economic, and constitutional problems. Blues, Dave What economic problems? Which of them are the fault of the current administration? Massive overspending. While it has been an on-again off-again problem for quite some time, responsibility for the current deficit rests on the shoulders of GWB and the people who elected him. Blues, Dave How has that impacted the economy? Define "the economy". I'm sure you can find a definition where massive deficits, massive trade imbalance, and value of the the $US have no impact.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #56 June 18, 2007 How have the Bush deficits negatively impacted the economy? Yes, I know the debt has increased. How have the increases negatively impacted the economy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #57 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuote>Until we undergo a cultural change we are not going to see another leader worthy of the office. And the first "cultural change" we must undergo is to lose the thinking that it's such an important office that you must be immensely qualified to fill such a lofty position. IMO, the problem in running for President has two interlinked factors. First, we're a voyeristic nation, in which the masses thrive on learning about other people's dirty laundry,... especially if it belongs to someone noteworthy. Secondly, the game of politics has become particularly nasty, effectively compelling many ambitious politicians to cater to my first point. Therefore, national candidates need a particularly thick skin and a willingness to expose their families also to abuse, if they want to play for the top spot. Oh yeah - there's that whole nasty business of funding your campaign, too. Heartily agree. I will add to my pathetically cynical outlook on US politics that I think there is one person that could be really different (of all those with intentions to run so far). The more I learn about Mr. Obama, the more I like him. Since this place seems populated mostly by people leaning way over to one side or another, I'll probably get skewered for that. Oh well, seems like everybody takes their turn." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #58 June 18, 2007 I'm not sure if the president has a whole lot of effect on the economy in general, at least in the short run. In the long run it's the people who will ultimately have to pay the huge deficit when the president launches a huge, expensive & destructive course of action (such as starting optional wars). Of course, the payments don't have to really start to hurt until long after that particular president is out of office. Then someone else gets the blame. America continues to be a great nation not because of its government, but in spite of it. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #59 June 18, 2007 QuoteAnd the first "cultural change" we must undergo is to lose the thinking that it's such an important office that you must be immensely qualified to fill such a lofty position. The only Constitutional qualifications for POTUS are over the age of 35, natural born American and lived in the US for at least 14 years. The problem is that, despite the Constitutional limitations, the President is one of the most powerful people in the world. Above all, the POTUS is the CEO of the US Government. In the past 70 years, this job has taken on a huge responsibility. Most importantly, the POTUS IS the national figurehead with the "bully pulpit." The POTUS is one of the most powerful people in the world, and therefore should hopefully either: 1) be well qualified; or 2) be smart enough to bring in good help. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #60 June 18, 2007 QuoteWhat economic problems? Unemployment is 4.5%, inflation for the last 6 years has been near 2% per year, the stock market is going gangbusters. Of any economic problems you see, which of them are the fault of the current administration? Let's put the fault question aside for the moment, even though its obvious who the source of the deficits have been. You don't see a problem with the growing debt? Tack on an extra 50k in credit debt and tell me how you're doing just fine. The most obvious result of the deficit spending has been the fall of the dollar. Early on, the Euro was unable to meet its target of dollar equality. 90 cents bought you a Euro. Now only a few years later, it's more like 1.30. A cheap dollar may be good for the trade deficit, but I don't think it's good for us consumers. Unemployment was terrible in my part of the world in the early decade. Even in 2004 my employer felt sufficient strong to give me a shitty take it or leave it offer, and meant it. Only in the past year has it really been moving. Same applies to the stock market. Gangbusters only applies to the last 2 years, ignoring the first 4. And the hottest sector of late? International. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #61 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteI consider both GW Bush senior and Junior to be warmongering murderers along with their corrupt posse.Anyone else view Bush Sr. in the same light? Probably a lot of people since he used to head the CIA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #62 June 18, 2007 Kelp, I agree that we have some problems/burdens that have been worsened by Bush's policies, but when I see "I blame all the people who voted for Bush in the last two elections for our more recent... economic... problems" I just gotta call bullshit.Longstanding problems that have been worsened? Yes Blame it all on Bush? Bullshit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #63 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI consider both GW Bush senior and Junior to be warmongering murderers along with their corrupt posse.Anyone else view Bush Sr. in the same light? Probably a lot of people since he used to head the CIA. how circular. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #64 June 18, 2007 >In the past 70 years, this job has taken on a huge responsibility. And that's the problem. We should fix that. We're a representative democracy, not a monarchy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #65 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI consider both GW Bush senior and Junior to be warmongering murderers along with their corrupt posse.Anyone else view Bush Sr. in the same light? Probably a lot of people since he used to head the CIA. how circular. Let's not mince words - the CIA does a lot of the dirty work of keeping America on top of everyone else. It frequently acts in our interests, not in the tenents of our Constitution. I personally don't hold it against Bush. Certainly he was more qualified on foreign affairs than Clinton or Reagan. And someone has to do that job. But if you don't approve of the role the CIA plays, you're certainly going to see him as a warmonger who destroyed democracies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #66 June 18, 2007 Quote I agree that we have some problems/burdens that have been worsened by Bush's policies, but when I see "I blame all the people who voted for Bush in the last two elections for our more recent... economic... problems" I just gotta call bullshit.Longstanding problems that have been worsened? Yes Blame it all on Bush? Bullshit well, that's politics. The President gets the blame for bad things beyond his control, and takes all the credit for good things beyond his control. I don't think any president avoids 9/11. Nor the popping of the stock market bubble. But a better one doesn't run up the deficit too, tries to avoid unnecessary conflict. (Leaving after finding SH would have saved a couple hundred billion) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
