pro life? - Pro choice?

[Royd 0]

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Personally I'm anti abortion except for very exceptional cases. Having placed a probe on many a pregnant woman and working for years in a Neo natal unit I doubt not that life starts before birth.

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But 'before birth' is not 'from conception'.

So life isn't life until it's up and walking around.Kind of eliminates the slime pool mentality.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Why is it that the father of the inutero baby has zero say about it's well-being all the way up to delivery and then instantly he's on the hook for 18 years?

I don't get how people can say - you've got no say about whether this baby lives, but if it does, then you're responsible???

When there is a spouse involved, the woman should be under a moral obligation to consult with her counterpart about the future of this potential life. But let's not forget the rights of the woman to decide her own destiny and the fact that we the male gender have been fucking over and controlling the females for eions. It's about time we start showing our sisters more respect and allowing them to decide the direction they want their lives to take.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[HeadCone 0]

Pro-life. I do, however, recognize the difference between just after conception and just before birth. Somewhere between the two there's a point where, afterwards, an abortion should only happen in case of medical necessity.

Defining where this point is and why seems to be the big problem and I don't have a good answer.

--Head

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[Skyrad 0]

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I think it is about whether, and when, it is a life worth protecting as any other. That protection is granted by law to other lives. I think many want to avoid the tough questions of whether and when it is life until birth, or whether a mother should be allowed the choice to kill it at any time.

I think very few would say that abortion should be allowed at any time during the pregnancy for any reason. I think that position is unreasonable, as is the position that it deserves that protection from the moment of conception. The advocates on both sides of the debate don't want to give at all from those unreasonable positions.

Back alley abortions will certainly be fewer if abortion at any time is allowed.

If, however, at some point it is a life worthy of protection like any other baby outside the womb, then I think the desire to have fewer back alley abortions cannot outweigh that taking of the life.

I think the point at which the baby deserves protection is somewhere no later than 2-3 months.

An interesting post.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[quade 4]

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i wondered where you all stand on this issue.

I think if you don't own the uterus, then it's probably none of your fucking business.

With that attitude one shouldn't have an opinion on most things.

You can certainly have an opinion, but the opinion certainly shouldn't carry even a billionth the amount of weight it should compared to the person who would actually be impregnated.

In other words, if you're not involved, your opinion shouldn't really matter at all. It's none of your business and you should probably just keep it to yourself.

If, on the other hand, you have found that you've impregnated a woman, then voicing your opinion to her may be valid, but ultimately it should be HER decision as to how she's going to lead the rest of her entire life.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

There is of course the argument that when awareness occurs along that line is an irrelevance as far as the right to terminate goes. If you won the lottery but hadn't been told and someone just took that money that you should have got and walked off with it, is that not still theft? There is alot of talk about the womans right to decide but what about a childs right to life? Surly is that not more important than either the womans or the mans right to decide? especially in those situations when the decision is made on lifestyle choices.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rehmwa 2]

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When there is a spouse involved, the woman should be under a moral obligation to consult with her counterpart about the future of this potential life. But let's not forget the rights of the woman to decide her own destiny and the fact that we the male gender have been fucking over and controlling the females for eions. It's about time we start showing our sisters more respect and allowing them to decide the direction they want their lives to take.

Nice first sentence. As for the rest - (excepting all those men and women who have been alive for "eions") if you personally have been mucking and controlling women in your lifetime through your personal actions, then, of course, you need to start showing respect. But you are under no obligation for the actions of your father to your mother. And today's women that feel downtrodden due to their grandmother's situations really need to see reality (based on the 'eions' comment anyway).

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

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i wondered where you all stand on this issue.

I think if you don't own the uterus, then it's probably none of your fucking business.

With that attitude one shouldn't have an opinion on most things.

You can certainly have an opinion, but the opinion certainly shouldn't carry even a billionth the amount of weight it should compared to the person who would actually be impregnated.

In other words, if you're not involved, your opinion shouldn't really matter at all. It's none of your business and you should probably just keep it to yourself.

If, on the other hand, you have found that you've impregnated a woman, then voicing your opinion to her may be valid, but ultimately it should be HER decision as to how she's going to lead the rest of her entire life.

That argument implies that the father won't have any responsibility for or influence in the childs life.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Royd 0]

I find it quite ironic that those who pretend to stand up for the downtrodden, and "Life's less fortunate",[heavy sarcasm] think that it's OK to flush the truly innocent ones down the tiolet, on a moment's whim, to protect the less innocent.

I say that those who use public money for an abortion, comes to the realization that they have murdered their own child, and goes into a depression, doesn't get public money to fix their mental health.

[rehmwa 2]

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If, on the other hand, you have found that you've impregnated a woman, then voicing your opinion to her may be valid, but ultimately it should be HER decision as to how she's going to lead the rest of her entire life.

so, by that, then your position is the man then "partially" owns her uterus?

or is it none of his business?

which is it, Paul?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

A nine month rental?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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I find it quite ironic that those who pretend to stand up for the downtrodden, and "Life's less fortunate",[heavy sarcasm] think that it's OK to flush the truly innocent ones down the tiolet, on a moment's whim, to protect the less innocent.

Nicely put.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[CanuckInUSA 0]

So you don't feel that men have not been fucking over and controlling women for all these years. Okay ... I guess you're allowed to have that opinion. Not all men are assholes. Some men are actually good men. But I have the opinion that we as a gender do not have a very good track record that we should be proud of when it comes to the way we treat our female counterparts.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Royd 0]

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I think my views are very close to yours. I don't like it but beleive it is ultimately the womans right to choose. I do have a problem with extreme late term abortions unless the womans life/health is in danger.

The problem here is that if the mother's health is in danger, the child still has to be removed. Why does it's life have to be snuffed out in the process?

[livendive 8]

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There is alot of talk about the womans right to decide but what about a childs right to life?

When does the collection of cells become a child entitled to life?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NCclimber 0]

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Why is it that the father of the inutero baby has zero say about it's well-being all the way up to delivery and then instantly he's on the hook for 18 years?

I don't get how people can say - you've got no say about whether this baby lives, but if it does, then you're responsible???

When there is a spouse involved, the woman should be under a moral obligation to consult with her counterpart about the future of this potential life. But let's not forget the rights of the woman to decide her own destiny and the fact that we the male gender have been fucking over and controlling the females for eions. It's about time we start showing our sisters more respect and allowing them to decide the direction they want their lives to take.

I didn't know cans of worms came in a variety pack.

[rehmwa 2]

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I find it quite ironic that those who pretend to stand up for the downtrodden, and "Life's less fortunate",[heavy sarcasm] think that it's OK to flush the truly innocent ones down the tiolet, on a moment's whim, to protect the less innocent.

I say that those who use public money for an abortion, comes to the realization that they have murdered their own child, and goes into a depression, doesn't get public money to fix their mental health.

1 - It's spelled "terlit", not "tiolet"
2 - "Public money"? that's a digression - but someone that doesn't admit responsibility for their actions (either having the child but wants someone else to pay for it, or choosing to abort it) doesn't understand your point anyway....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

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There is alot of talk about the womans right to decide but what about a childs right to life?

When does the collection of cells become a child entitled to life?

When its allowed to develope unmolested.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[livendive 8]

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If, on the other hand, you have found that you've impregnated a woman, then voicing your opinion to her may be valid, but ultimately it should be HER decision as to how she's going to lead the rest of her entire life.

so, by that, then your position is the man then "partially" owns her uterus?

It's my position that the man is partially responsible for the product of their conception.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NCclimber 0]

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In other words, if you're not involved, your opinion shouldn't really matter at all. It's none of your business and you should probably just keep it to yourself.

I guess we could apply that rationale to heroin junkies or domestic abuse or sexual assault or strip mining or offshore drilling or just about any other topic where society collectively decides what's best for the common good.

[rehmwa 2]

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So you don't feel that men have been fucking over and controlling women for all these years.

no - I think it has happened and continues to happen with individuals. What does that have to do with "men" as a whole, owing "women" as a whole anything?

Hey, I hear in the 14th century, some king used to cut off the heads of his wives instead of divorce..,... So, how many Hallmark cards have you purchased the 3 billion women to apologize for that?? You must be wracked with guilt every second.

Generalization leads to stereotyping. You want to identify with some preconceived notion of the "men of the ages" stories. I think it's goofy and prefer to deal with individuals in the moment.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Well to get back on topic, I am of the firm belief that ultimately the final decision should be left up to the woman who has to carry this new potential life in her body and to allow governments to tell us otherwise what we can and can not do with our lives is just wrong.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Butters 0]

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Hopefully you are aware that birth control methods are not always 100% reliable and they do sometimes fail and that the woman can still become pregnant even after exercising caution.

Yes, I am. If you want the reward be prepared for the risks.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rehmwa 2]

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Well to get back on topic, I am of the firm belief that ultimately the final decision should be left up to the woman who has to carry this new potential life in her body and to allow governments to tell us otherwise what we can and can not do with our lives is just wrong.

That's a well thought out opinion. Much easier to get behind

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[HeadCone 0]

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There is of course the argument that when awareness occurs along that line is an irrelevance as far as the right to terminate goes. If you won the lottery but hadn't been told and someone just took that money that you should have got and walked off with it, is that not still theft? There is alot of talk about the womans right to decide but what about a childs right to life? Surly is that not more important than either the womans or the mans right to decide? especially in those situations when the decision is made on lifestyle choices.

I believe that the development of human life starts at conception. That actually seems to me that it should be an obvious fact. However, I think there's a big difference in wrongness in aborting just after conception versus just before birth (except for medical reasons). That would mean that, yes, I think there's a timeframe when it's ok to terminate a developing human life.

--Head

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Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety!

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