Nightingale 0 #101 June 20, 2007 Um... of course they think that the embryo is human, what the heck else is it going to be? Squirrel? Chromosomes/sperm from human male plus chromosomes/ovum from human female equals human zygote, presumably alive. So, at conception, you obviously have a human cell that is alive. Whether or not the cell is a person is a different debate entirely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #102 June 20, 2007 Quote The problem with this is that it encourages women to falsely report rape. The problem for many on either side is tunnel vision. I appreciate you have thought about the bigger picture of cause & effect.I try to stay out of these debates for this reason. Many on either side believe the opposite side must be cold & cruel, and for many others that just isn't the case.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #103 June 20, 2007 Quote Quote I really try to stay out of things here (SC) but this is a hot issue for me. If men could get pregnant we would not be having this yea/nay discussion. Jerry PS) It all starts with the loss of one small liberty, and then . . . . . I don't see how you can make that conclusion. Since women are also quite divided on the issue, I don't see why men would be unanimously one way or the other. I can see how he makes that conclusion...there is a very strong aspect of control associated with this topic. It is very possible that some men want to maintain control over something they feel disconnected from. It isn't every guy of course, but I'm sure it would be the group that don't want women at their golf course and want to make sure that women make smaller salaries. Never under estimate the stupidity/ignorance of others._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #104 June 20, 2007 Quote Whether or not the cell is a person is a different debate entirely. And I doubt a 100% solid answer will be available to anyone to help sway everyone to their side on this argument. Therefore, it should come down to a personal choice on what you believe._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #105 June 20, 2007 That was exactly my point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #106 June 20, 2007 Quote Therefore, it should come down to a personal choice And the pro-lifers are all too willing to take the choice away from women as to how they wish to lead their lives. So pro-lifers what is it? Who has more rights? The woman or the fetus? Simple question looking for a simple answer. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #107 June 20, 2007 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Therefore, it should come down to a personal choice -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote And the pro-lifers are all too willing to take the choice away from women as to how they wish to lead their lives. So pro-lifers what is it? Who has more rights? The woman or the fetus? Simple question looking for a simple answer. Think of the children.The govt. forces me to pay property taxes for the support of the school system and I don't even have children. Never have. Where the hell is my choice? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #108 June 20, 2007 Your choice is in choosing to live here. Don't like the taxes? either vote for fewer taxes, or move. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #109 June 20, 2007 Quote Your choice is in choosing to live here. Don't like the taxes? either vote for fewer taxes, or move. I think his point was that the government intrudes on many of our supposed personal freedoms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #110 June 20, 2007 The government intrudes to an extent that we, as a society, allow it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #111 June 20, 2007 Quote Quote Your choice is in choosing to live here. Don't like the taxes? either vote for fewer taxes, or move. I think his point was that the government intrudes on many of our supposed personal freedoms. And you don't see the hyporicy here? The fact that you are all to willing to support a group in government to take away the freedom to choose one's own destiny? How is it that so many pro-lifers are huge supporters of the freedom Americans enjoy to the point where you are all to willing to support starting wars against other nations. Yet you then want to take this freedom to choose away from your own women? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #112 June 20, 2007 Quote The government intrudes to an extent that we, as a society, allow it. Which is exactly what this issue is about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #113 June 20, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Your choice is in choosing to live here. Don't like the taxes? either vote for fewer taxes, or move. I think his point was that the government intrudes on many of our supposed personal freedoms. And you don't see the hyporicy here? No. Why don't you explain it to me, with actual examples, instead of resorting to bogus stereotypes. Quote The fact that you are all to willing to support a group in government to take away the freedom to choose one's own destiny? How is it that so many pro-lifers are huge supporters of the freedom Americans enjoy to the point where you are all to willing to support starting wars against other nations. Yet you then want to take this freedom to choose away from your own women? I didn't know I felt that way. Thanks for telling me what my views are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #114 June 20, 2007 Of course we are all different and none of us share identical views of how the world should work. But... 1) Where are the vast majority of Pro-Lifers from? Red States ... 2) Who voted for GWB? Red States ... 3) Who supports GWB as he wages his wars around the world? Red States ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yjumpinoz 0 #115 June 20, 2007 I had a friend whose X-wife (seperated at the time) chose to abort the child and He was unable to stop her. How about that scenerio? Wasn't the man part of those "cells in her"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #116 June 20, 2007 Quote Of course we are all different and none of us share identical views of how the world should work. But... 1) Where are the vast majority of Pro-Lifers from? Red States ... 2) Who voted for GWB? Red States ... 3) Who supports GWB as he wages his wars around the world? Red States ... Move along folks. No dishonest stereotypes here folks. Nothing to see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #117 June 20, 2007 Quote Of course we are all different and none of us share identical views of how the world should work. But... 1) Where are the vast majority of Pro-Lifers from? Red States ... 2) Who voted for GWB? Red States ... 3) Who supports GWB as he wages his wars around the world? Red States ... Quote Move along folks. No dishonest stereotypes here folks. Nothing to see. What part of that is dishonest?? Is it easier to find a pafily planning clinic in a Blue State or a Red State. Last time I checked.. the RED states = Republican states in the presidential elections.. last time I checked GW was certainly not a Democrat. All those conservatives SEEM to be SOOO Patriotic so war is good as long as our country is doing it.... they ARE wearing the white hats right?? Nice knee jerk.. to something that is reality.. yet must really burn your bottom to have supported it so fervently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #118 June 20, 2007 Quote Nice knee jerk.. to something that is reality.. yet must really burn your bottom to have supported it so fervently. Yeah. You keep telling yourself that. Personally, I find the whole business of labelling Americas by how the majority (that's more than half ) in their state voted, in the last election is, kind of myopic. It ignores the minority (that's less than half ) in each state. It's really hard to keep up with those swing states, too. And what is it that is burning my bottom to have supported so fervently? Or is this just a dishonest label? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
babe 0 #119 June 20, 2007 The issue of abortion is such a complicated issue and there are so many greys involved.. while most everyone here has stated good reasons on both sides for why they are either pro-life/pro-choice or a bit of both depending on the circumstances, i think that the better way to solve this huge dilemma that has been around our country for years is to figure out how ALL sides can find common ground. What I am saying is that the goal of both sides should really the same -- to eliminate the need for abortion. To give women (and men) the tools so that a woman doesn't ever have to face the most painful decision of what to do. The way to do this is through preventive ways -- such as education -- whether it be abstinence, birth control, learning about what sex is -- and also through giving young mothers better options -- whether it be homes for unwed mothers, adoption, financial and emotional support, changing mindsets about being pregnant and young, etc. One area that really has lost lots of support and funding is the area of adoption. There are thousands of couples that would love to adopt a child yet today the answer for some pregnant wpmen is abortion because they don't think that they have any other options. I am pro-choice but i think you have to be responsible in that position. Because I do believe that teh entity inside a woman is a living organism and will be a human life. Its the mindset of people that makes it what they want. Do you ever hear a woman say at 2 months "Hey I am having a fetus" No she says, I am having a baby" Its a choice we make and a painful decision that is made to abort that child. I faced it once and i hope to never have to face it again. (of course as an adult it would be irreesponsible now for me to abort it). The goal should be to eradicate the need for women to think they need to have an abortion or to ever face that very difficult choice. Thats one area we should all unite around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #120 June 20, 2007 About whether women who have had abortions have a deep and lasting regret (I don't think most do). Quote Here's a survey of women who had abortions From the website with the survey: Quote this was a survey of women who had some involement with Women Exploited By Abortion, a peer support group for women who were experiencing negative post-abortion reaction. Because this is a self-selected sample of the those who had a "bad experience" these findings should not be interpreted as representative of a random sample of all women who have had abortions Not representative. How many dz.com folks would think that skydiving is fun and relaxing? Now compare that to the general population. People who don't have a lot of regrets don't dwell on it as much. It's in the past. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #121 June 20, 2007 Keep abortion safe and legal until the fetus can vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #122 June 20, 2007 I would have at least 1 child but maybe 2 (2 abortions = poor birth control discipline) if it were not for abortion, I was not in love with the girl even though we were together for 5 years and she was addicted to Cigarettes, alcohol and Cannabis. She did not have a job and was unable to carry her own ass through the week. (disclaimer; I was young, dumb and full of cum!) There are enough under privileged children in this world and we do not need more. If both parents do not wish to raise the child and the child is terminated before too long then in my opinion there is nothing wrong with abortion. That is my opinion anyway and I have been through the process of 2 abortions with the said, previous partner."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #123 June 20, 2007 Quote One area that really has lost lots of support and funding is the area of adoption. There are thousands of couples that would love to adopt a child yet today the answer for some pregnant wpmen is abortion because they don't think that they have any other options.This should be the moral option as the first choice, which is presented. It goes against the politcal agenda of groups like planned parenthood, and other womens' groups, therefore, it's going to be on the back burner as an option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #124 June 20, 2007 Quote People who don't have a lot of regrets don't dwell on it as much. It's in the past. You mean like those who don't want to get stretch marks or have to give up the party life? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #125 June 21, 2007 Quote Quote People who don't have a lot of regrets don't dwell on it as much. It's in the past. You mean like those who don't want to get stretch marks or have to give up the party life? I'm curious as to what business you think it is of yours (or mine, or the government's) what decisions a woman makes about her body, and what her reasons may be.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
