"It's her body."

[Butters 0]

I agree, I'm not sure why race is an issue when it comes to adoption. A baby is a baby is a baby.

PS: The Chinese have a tendency to abort females (please correct me if I am wrong). I hope that Americans adopting Chinese females gives the Chinese an alternative.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Royd 0]

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We now have couples running off to foreign lands to get children. Maybe they just want a cute Asian baby. Who knows.

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That comes just about as close as you can possibly get .. to lamenting the lack of WHITE babies to adopt as you can get..... I have heard that WAY too many times from what I thought were normally good people

The thought never crossed my mind.

Are you saying that abortion is a white woman thing? We just wouldn't understand. Now, there's a stereotype.

[PLFXpert 0]

Oy vey. I don't even know where to begin. Absorption, immigrants, Democrats (who's a Democrat?)...

I'll stick to this:

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Well, some of them would be close to 50 by now. How many potential geniuses, entrepreneurs or philanthropists have we destroyed?

Wait, so the one million/year would have all be adopted?

Are you familiar with adoption rates? How familiar are you with how unadopted children grow up?

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Royd 0]

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Wait, so the one million/year would have all be adopted?

Many of them probably would have been taken care of by family members, just like today.

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Are you familiar with adoption rates?

Numbers? No, but as I posted, we have couples chasing to the ends of the earth to get a baby. Maybe it's just the chic thing to do. I just want to be like Madonna and Angelina Jolie.

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How familiar are you with how unadopted children grow up?

Are you saying that all of the ducks need to be in a row for the next 20 yr. if you plan on having a child? We now have 30yr. olds living at home with mom still making their beds. A little adversity can be a good thing.

[Butters 0]

People will adopt from countries where the adoption process and legal issues (during and after the adoption) are easier than in America.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[PLFXpert 0]

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How familiar are you with how unadopted children grow up?

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Are you saying that all of the ducks need to be in a row for the next 20 yr. if you plan on having a child?

Not at all. I asked if you're familiar with how unadopted children grow up.

Basically your answer to each of my questions is:

No. No. And No.

I rest my case.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[livendive 8]

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After reading the abortion threads, I'm curious... For those of you who feel that a woman has a right to have an abortion because it's her body and she should be able to do what she wants with it... Do you think that that right applies to other things as well? Should she also be able to have a clone made of herself? Sell her organs? Work as a prostitute? Use recreational drugs? Have herself euthanized? Drive without a seatbelt?

I'm not sure about the cloning, but I'm fine with the others.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Fast 0]

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After reading the abortion threads, I'm curious... For those of you who feel that a woman has a right to have an abortion because it's her body and she should be able to do what she wants with it... Do you think that that right applies to other things as well? Should she also be able to have a clone made of herself? Sell her organs? Work as a prostitute? Use recreational drugs? Have herself euthanized? Drive without a seatbelt?

I'm not sure about the cloning, but I'm fine with the others.

Blues,
Dave

The rights of a person to do what they want with thier own body only extend as far as what "society" thinks is right. It is a real shame that "society" thinks that is the way life should work. Life would be much simpler if people worried more about thier own morals than they did about imposing those same morals on everyone around them.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Butters 0]

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The rights of a person to do what they want with thier own body only extend as far as what "society" thinks is right. It is a real shame that "society" thinks that is the way life should work. Life would be much simpler if people worried more about thier own morals than they did about imposing those same morals on everyone around them.

The problem is that the actions of individuals often affect others in some way, shape, or form.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[pirana 0]

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Women's abortion issue example - "all abortions should be publicly funded, but only from the salaries of men. Each abortion the woman should receive $18000 from the same fund so the woman can get back on her feet."

Way to go. You do realize this is going to show up on somebody's platform or another.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rehmwa 2]

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Women's abortion issue example - "all abortions should be publicly funded, but only from the salaries of men. Each abortion the woman should receive $18000 from the same fund so the woman can get back on her feet."

Way to go. You do realize this is going to show up on somebody's platform or another.

It's my platform, be sure to vote. I'm sure I can buy your vote somehow too.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

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The Prolifers seek to change that arrangement and make the decision for her.

Oh, please... that's the equivalent of saying that the prochoicers want to put abortion clinics in every school.

Here's MY thought on it - I think it's *morally* wrong. I also realize that it's the mother's right to choose and I support that.

I *STRONGLY* disagree with "no parental notice" abortions - the parents SHOULD know about ANY medical treatment that their child receives.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Fast 0]

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The rights of a person to do what they want with thier own body only extend as far as what "society" thinks is right. It is a real shame that "society" thinks that is the way life should work. Life would be much simpler if people worried more about thier own morals than they did about imposing those same morals on everyone around them.

The problem is that the actions of individuals often affect others in some way, shape, or form.

While that is true and I understood it writing what I wrote, the problem comes when society feels that it must continue to takes steps up the "ladder" so to speak in preventing problems. Regulate the things that individuals do that affect others, not the things that they do which only affect there own person. Given the context of this thread you could make an argument that abortion does affect another, but I don't have a problem with people arguing about what constitutes a person.

I know you are going to split hairs and not really see the message that I am trying to make, but thats ok with me.

The problems with a lot of this is that society has taken the control of many of the things that I think an individual should be responsible for. That would make many of the laws that we have unessecary.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Butters 0]

I understand the message you are making (and I agree with it in principle). If everyone were responsible then no one would have to be responsible for anyone else. However, some people are not responsible.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[tbrown 26]

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After reading the abortion threads, I'm curious... For those of you who feel that a woman has a right to have an abortion because it's her body and she should be able to do what she wants with it... Do you think that that right applies to other things as well? Should she also be able to have a clone made of herself? Sell her organs? Work as a prostitute? Use recreational drugs? Have herself euthanized? Drive without a seatbelt?

I'm not so sure about the "it's her body" argument for abortion, but as a matter of law and public policy I believe women must have access to safe & legal abortions because I refuse to see the back alley coat hanger days return. Making a clone ? Hmmm, I don't really like the idea of anyone doing that and so far the poor little sheep didn't live very long due to lots of problems. But if that stuff gets worked out, I suppose women (men too) should have a right to clone themselves.

Selling one's organs is the opposite side of the coin from cloning oneself. People who can afford cloning would never sell their organs and people who would sell their organs could never afford cloning. I'm opposed to the sale of organs because of the economic inequality. We are all able to DONATE our organs, some while living. I'm an organ donor myself, when I die they can take whatever they can use and are welcome to it. For my wife or one of the kids, I'd probably give a kidney.

Prostitution ? Already legal in many Nevada counties, as long as it's not a coercive situation I see no need to make a criminal out of the woman. She (and there are some he types) is doing all the work. It may not be "okay", but with everyone else getting laid and/or making big bucks off it, why does she get to go to jail ?

Recreational drugs are maybe not the best choice either, but we'd be a lot better off treating people with drug problems for their HEALTH problem.

Euthenasia ? That, along with doctor assisted suicide, are a toughie. Oregon and The Netherlands allow it. Oregon took years to debate it, their law even required that it pass TWO referenda in a row, which it did. Also survived a court challenge from Attny Genl Assholecroft. I'm just suspicious of insurance companies encouraging people to take the "dignity procedure" rather than an expensive therapy that might work. Hell, they'd probably offer to pay for your cremation and throw in a pair of tasteful pastel colored paper pajamas for you to die in.....

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Amazon 7]

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Euthenasia ? That, along with doctor assisted suicide, are a toughie. Oregon and The Netherlands allow it. Oregon took years to debate it, their law even required that it pass TWO referenda in a row, which it did. Also survived a court challenge from Attny Genl Assholecroft. I'm just suspicious of insurance companies encouraging people to take the "dignity procedure" rather than an expensive therapy that might work. Hell, they'd probably offer to pay for your cremation and throw in a pair of tasteful pastel colored paper pajamas for you to die in.....

All you have to do is look at who opposes the Death With Dignity Law that I voted for when I lived in Oregon.

Rather then just letting someone in great pain and suffering pass on.. the doctors and medical community..fight it tooth and nail... why.. FOLLOW the MONEY... they make money.. the drug companies make even more money on t he stuff that purports to deaden the excruciating pain.

Then all you have to do is see WHICH politicians support the drug lobby.. GEE its SHRUB and his right wing NEO-CONS.. heavily invested in pharmacuticals.. gee go figure.

[Royd 0]

All you have to do is look at who opposes the Death With Dignity Law that I voted for when I lived in Oregon.

Rather then just letting someone in great pain and suffering pass on.. the doctors and medical community..fight it tooth and nail... why.. FOLLOW the MONEY... they make money.. the drug companies make even more money on t he stuff that purports to deaden the excruciating pain.

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Then all you have to do is see WHICH politicians support the drug lobby.. GEE its SHRUB and his right wing NEO-CONS.. heavily invested in pharmacuticals.. gee go figure.

You might want to jump over to the stem cell thread and voice your opinion.

Which argument would you use?
Follow the money, or GWB is against it, so I'm for it?

[NCclimber 0]

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Euthenasia ? That, along with doctor assisted suicide, are a toughie. Oregon and The Netherlands allow it. Oregon took years to debate it, their law even required that it pass TWO referenda in a row, which it did. Also survived a court challenge from Attny Genl Assholecroft. I'm just suspicious of insurance companies encouraging people to take the "dignity procedure" rather than an expensive therapy that might work. Hell, they'd probably offer to pay for your cremation and throw in a pair of tasteful pastel colored paper pajamas for you to die in.....

All you have to do is look at who opposes the Death With Dignity Law that I voted for when I lived in Oregon.

Rather then just letting someone in great pain and suffering pass on.. the doctors and medical community..fight it tooth and nail... why.. FOLLOW the MONEY... they make money.. the drug companies make even more money on t he stuff that purports to deaden the excruciating pain.

Then all you have to do is see WHICH politicians support the drug lobby.. GEE its SHRUB and his right wing NEO-CONS.. heavily invested in pharmacuticals.. gee go figure.

Of course, proving these sinister, ulterior motives is quite different than merely claiming they exist.

[Amazon 7]

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Of course, proving these sinister, ulterior motives is quite different than merely claiming they exist.

A little something from the book of Matthew for you

Chapter 7

16
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20
So by their fruits you will know them.


I think we have seen by his DEEDS who Mr Bush really is.

[Butters 0]

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A little something from the book of Matthew for you

Chapter 7

16
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20
So by their fruits you will know them.

Off Topic:

I never understood this analogy. Why? Because whether a tree bears good or bad fruit is based on the type of tree (which can be determined by the seed) and location of the tree. Does this mean that we are bad or good at conception? Does this mean that we are bad or good based on our location?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NCclimber 0]

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Of course, proving these sinister, ulterior motives is quite different than merely claiming they exist.

I think we have seen by his DEEDS who Mr Bush really is.

Blaming Bush for doctors and the medical community supposedly fighting all legalization of euthanasia initiatives because legalizing it would hurt their incomes???

That's rich.

[Amazon 7]

In this case I think the fruit has not fallen very far from the tree going back several generations of trees.

[Lastchance 0]

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes.

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[tbrown 26]

Rather then just letting someone in great pain and suffering pass on.. the doctors and medical community..fight it tooth and nail... why.. FOLLOW the MONEY... they make money.. the drug companies make even more money on t he stuff that purports to deaden the excruciating pain.

Then all you have to do is see WHICH politicians support the drug lobby.. GEE its SHRUB and his right wing NEO-CONS.. heavily invested in pharmacuticals.. gee go figure.

[Keith 0]

You are clearly of the mind-set that men should rule the world. I'm not. Women should have the right to choose what happens to their own body whether you like it or not. If you have an issue with abortion don't stick your dick where it may become an issue. Simple as that.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville