I don't understand why Bush wont support Stem Cell Research!

[billvon 3,009]

>Don't know if it has any truth to it but it fits when thought about.

And that, right there, sums up the thought processes of many people here to a tee.

[jenfly00 0]

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There are quite a few cures already found for certain diseases and cancers but the drug companies have swept them under the rug because they will lose money big time over the drugs they make to just alleviate the symptoms...

I don't have any proof but that's the standard belief among some people.

Mother: But the key meeting took place July 3rd, 1958, when the Air Force brought the space visitor to the White House for an interview with President Eisenhower. And Ike said, "hey look, give us your technology, we'll give you all the cow lips you want."

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[souleh 0]

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Gee why not start singing this little ditty....

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/monty-python/every-sperm-is-sacred.html

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Great minds and all that.. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1037430;#1037430

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[Butters 0]

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Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c3921122a1ad011124102c850198

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[jakee 1,501]

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Gee why not start singing this little ditty....

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/monty-python/every-sperm-is-sacred.html

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Great minds and all that.. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1037430;#1037430

Sit on my face
And tell me that you love me

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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So are you telling us there should be no government funding? We are talking about a major change in our society, or world for that matter! I think that if something this potentially big, which could help so many people, is worth the funding.

I've seen quite a bit of new construction and I know that if someone isn't holding the contractor's feet to the fire, there'll be enough good material thrown away so that for every 15 houses you could build one for free.

The homeowner ends up paying for it.

This is the problem with a bottomless source of funds with no serious accountability. Private money tends to end a lot of the waste.

[mnealtx 0]

That's a good point...also, when has involving the government in ANYthing ever made it cheaper?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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That's a good point...also, when has involving the government in ANYthing ever made it cheaper?

Are you certain you know the difference between "cheaper" and "less expensive"?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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That's a good point...also, when has involving the government in ANYthing ever made it cheaper?

Are you certain you know the difference between "cheaper" and "less expensive"?

Getting the federal government involved has NEVER made anything less expensive. (gratuitous "you're not an economist" slam ignored)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gawain 0]

I haven't done a whole lot of reading on all this research, but from what little I understand, embryonic stem research has yielded no new advances, but apparently adult stem cell research is being used with pretty good success.

I may be totally wrong though. I'm simply not versed enough in the research end of it. However, he has maintained a consistent position on it. So, that's better than a bunch of waffling on issues IMO.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lawrocket 3]

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do you think car companies should have paid for the paving and building of roads and bridges in the early 20th century, since they're the ones who made money off the building of those roads and bridges?

No. Not anymore than horse breeders should have paid for the building of trails. Roads and trails were there before motor vehicles. Roads and trails are open to anyone to use, and are government owned. Because they are government-owned and a public asset, they should be paid for by the users of the roads.

Private streets, however, are different stories. Because they are private, general public access is limited. Private roads are therefore financed by the beneficiaries of the roads.

Train tracks? That's a different story! Train tracks are owned by the railroad companies. Of course, it didn't stop Congress from heavily financing the railways, even back in 1862. They are privately owned, for the most part. Exceptions include governmental entities that own subways, els, etc.

The government has an interest in its own right for keeping the channeles of commerce open - or at least things that make armies easier to mobilize. The government also has an interest in the health and welfare of its people.

But the government should leave applied sciences and technology to the private sector unless hese things provide use to the effective administration of the government itself.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[willard 0]

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And to the right wing people: Do you mean to tell me if you do have a family member that could benefit from something like this, are you going to actually look them in the eye and say: " if the president doesn't support this, then I don't support this."?

No.
My not supporting government funded stem cell research has nothing to do with how the President thinks but I agree that there are some who do feel that way.

Oh, ok then let me re-phrase the question. Could you look a family member in the eye who has a problem that could be resolved through stem cell research and say "I am sorry, I do not support this."?

I could never look at anyone that is in that situation and feel good about myself.

I support efforts and research into cures and treatments for specific conditions such as Cystic Fibrosis. CF is the genetic desease with the most promise for finding a cure, yet all public funds for research into a cure was pulled years ago.
Stem cell research has not produced a viable cure or treatment for any desease or condition as of yet (that I know of) so my support goes to research that I know helps people. When research finds a definite use for stem cells in treating people then I will support public funding, but not until then.

[DSE 5]

the government also has an interest in supporting and promoting the general welfare of the people. Otherwise, we're "taxed" to death by privateers. As it is, many corporations nickel and dime us to death. One has to wonder what happened to the government's position on controls/regulation of this industry vs that industry.
If nothing else, the stem cell aspect of medicine is a pretty good example. If it promotes the general welfare of the public *and* if the public wants to appoint a set budget on the research, there is nothing wrong, IMO, with the government encouraging commercial developement, which in turn means revenues for the private companies that eventually manage/manufacture/monetize the results of the research, which in turn pays back the grant/funding in the form of more tax revenues. Excepting...the big companies already get the tax breaks even after they've received grants/funding/gifts/benefits from the government in some form.
By your argument, would you then say that the SBA shouldn't exist? Or student loan programs? Grants to educational development?
Yes, I believe private industry should fund the majority of this, but if government can incentivize the program, and the program benefits the general population, it's a win-win.
I'd surely rather see my taxes go to freezing embryos than burying soldiers.

[Muenkel 0]

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GWB has based much of his support on the far right, ultra conservative and religious right.

I read this line and was reminded of when you said in another religious thread that as long as someone doesn't push their religion on you, you're fine with it (not exact quote, but same context).

Well, folks like you should take a long look in the mirror. People who want tax dollars to support the destruction of human embryos are not only shoving their beliefs in the face of pro-lifers, but they also want access to their wallets.

That, is called hypocrisy.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[quade 4]

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GWB has based much of his support on the far right, ultra conservative and religious right.

I read this line and was reminded of when you said in another religious thread that as long as someone doesn't push their religion on you, you're fine with it (not exact quote, but same context).

Well, folks like you should take a long look in the mirror. People who want tax dollars to support the destruction of human embryos are not only shoving their beliefs in the face of pro-lifers, but they also want access to their wallets.

That, is called hypocrisy.

Chris

No Chris, it's called understanding the difference between science and religion and the role of government in both.

It's debatable whether religion should have any role in government, but The Consititution is quite clear that government is not supposed to have ANY role whatsoever in religion. GWB has very clearly violated this concept several times over.

Science, on the other hand, is a HUGE part of what government IS supposed to be involved with. It IS in the best interest of this country to be a leader in all fields of science including medicine. Are you seriously suggesting that the Center for Disese Control has no place in government? That's insane.

We can quibble all day about whether or not a few cells are or are not a human yet from some sort of philosophical stand point, but the science is quite clear that the amount and types of cells we're talking about are not a human, only that they have a complete set DNA possible to make them one. However, that's actually no different than billions of other cells in your body right now. Following that logic to its conclusion, you should never be allowed to take out a person's tonsils.

Further, tax payers do NOT get to pick what the government spends money on based on their religion, likes or dislikes. Never have and never will. It just doesn't work that way.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Royd 0]

I've given this some thought last night. The object is to advanvce the knowledge of embryonic stem cell research.
Why does the base work HAVE to be done on human stem cells?
It seems to me that all of the basic research could be done using animals.
If you want to grow a new liver, then grow a pig liver first, to prove that it can be done.

The refusal to do so would indicate the possibility of a political agenda.

Maybe they're just worried about the radical animal activists busting up their labs over the use of rat embryonic stem cells.

[Royd 0]

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Science, on the other hand, is a HUGE part of what government IS supposed to be involved with. It IS in the best interest of this country to be a leader in all fields of science including medicine.

If religion and politics are diametrically opposed, then the same rule should be applied to science, since research is quite often controversial.
It's pretty hard to have clean hands, politically, if some research company has paid your way to Washington.

[kallend 2,032]

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But the government should leave applied sciences and technology to the private sector unless hese things provide use to the effective administration of the government itself.

So the CDC should be privatized? The National Labs should all be closed?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,501]

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People who want tax dollars to support the destruction of human embryos

Lets go over this very slowly and clearly shall we?

The. Embryos. Are. Destroyed. Anyway!

The only question is, might they be used to work towards curing diseases, or do they just go straight in the incinerator?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[souleh 0]

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Sit on my face
And tell me that you love me

I've got that as a ringtone on my phone. Well, I did until it got some bizarre looks in the pub!

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[jakee 1,501]

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Sit on my face
And tell me that you love me

I've got that as a ringtone on my phone. Well, I did until it got some bizarre looks in the pub!

Who knows, play it to the right barmaid and you might get lucky!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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People who want tax dollars to support the destruction of human embryos are not only shoving their beliefs in the face of pro-lifers, but they also want access to their wallets.

Chris.. do you understand the concept of what is being done with these embryos in the first place???

Instead of using them for something that might be able to heal others.... yourself included.... they are just destroyed.... as the leftovers of a medical procedure

[rehmwa 2]

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I'd surely rather see my taxes go to freezing embryos than burying soldiers.

you just want to let them lie there? rotting? close national cemetaries?

I don't think taking away the burial benefit would be supported by any congressman on either side.

It's kind of mean to the family.

But, hey, at least you're thinking about cutting the cost of government. Perhaps cutting government research in areas that can be dealt with in the private sector would be good start, eliminating most of the entitlement programs, reducing the military, completely eliminate support of arts and wierd stuff. Those are areas I'd like to see go.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,032]

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I'd surely rather see my taxes go to freezing embryos than burying soldiers.

you just want to let them lie there? rotting? close national cemetaries?

I don't think taking away the burial benefit would be supported by any congressman on either side.

It's kind of mean to the family.

But, hey, at least you're thinking about cutting the cost of government. Perhaps cutting government research in areas that can be dealt with in the private sector would be good start, eliminating most of the entitlement programs, reducing the military, completely eliminate support of arts and wierd stuff. Those are areas I'd like to see go.

Close all the publicly owned airports, all the city and county owned baseball diamonds and parks, public libraries, etc. They can all be provided privately.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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Close all the publicly owned airports, all the city and county owned baseball diamonds and parks, public libraries, etc. They can all be provided privately.

The difference being that all the examples you list there is a direct, tangible benefit to the populations they serve.

Note: I consider tax payer funded stadiums, ballparks and arenas built primarily for a professional team to be gross examples of corporate welfare... abuses of government authority.