SiCKO - What are your thoughts on Michael Moore's new film?

[Newbie 0]

A few years ago i asked why so many Americans hated Michael Moore. That was just after Farenheit 9/11 came out. I got a mix of replies, and he definitely deeply polarises peoples views in the US, which is interesting.

I'm curious to know which people, particualrly those who don't like Moore for either his films content, subjects or subjective editing etc (all reasons that people stated why they didn't like him the first time i posted about him some years back) will be interested to see something that concerns all of Americans on their home soil, be they pro gunners or pro Iraq war or whatever (subjects he has previously covered where you can draw a line down the middle and have pro/anti clearly designated on each side of the fence). Health care, being more universal - at least on face value i would think - might blur those lines as everyone, regardless of political and other beliefs, i woudl imagine would want affordable and reasonable health care provision for themselves and their families.

I read an interesting look at the new film on NY Mag, which you can read here http://nymag.com/movies/reviews/33977/.

So, thoughts? Any real vehermently anti MM peeps out there thinking about checking out the movie?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Royd 0]

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A few years ago i asked why so many Americans hated Michael Moore. That was just after Farenheit 9/11 came out.

For the same reason so many people despise Rosie O'donnell. They're both loud mouthed pigs.

[jimmytavino 16]

wow..
I learned a long time ago..
"you shouldn't shoot the messenger,,,, because you don't like the message"...
I'm no fan of Rosie...
but Moore's work is social commentary at it's best.
Not to say it's all fully accurate, he Does tend to slant things,,,( artistic privledge)
But he IS thought provoking....and I DO believe that his intention to draw people to a discussion of what he sees, ( and many others also see) as inequities within our culture is a good thing....
I don't think he is in it for the box office returns....( he's more of a social crusader)
though support of his films, is what allows for him to continue making new ones...
I do intend to see Sicko when it hits the theaters...



jmy

[sundevil777 102]

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I do intend to see Sicko when it hits the theaters...

I thought it had already been pirated/viewable on the internet.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[NCclimber 0]

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wow..
I learned a long time ago..
"you shouldn't shoot the messenger,,,, because you don't like the message"...
I'm no fan of Rosie...
but Moore's work is social commentary at it's best.
Not to say it's all fully accurate, he Does tend to slant things,,,( artistic privledge)

All Propaganda (w/ a big P - the bad stuff) is based on truths. But it's the twists and distortions that give propaganda it's real power.

Giving a distorted representation is his part and parcel. When you preaching to the choir, it's easy to get away with.

I knew some Brits who thought he walked the moon, while he was bad mouthing the US. Then he went on tour in Europe and started offering his critique of local matters. Those Brits quickly saw how he twisted the facts.

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But he IS thought provoking....and I DO believe that his intention to draw people to a discussion of what he sees, ( and many others also see) as inequities within our culture is a good thing....

I believe his intention is to tap into people's hot buttons, that really crank up their emotions... and exploit them.

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I don't think he is in it for the box office returns....( he's more of a social crusader)
though support of his films, is what allows for him to continue making new ones...

That would explain why he pockets so little of his films profits.

[Butters 0]

I think ... that Michael Moore is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[freethefly 6]

I hope that people finally open their eyes and see the truth about how dismal healthcare is in this country. That being sick is not a need for healthcare. Only having money is. I know firsthand that having a terminal illness does not mean that a doctor will treat you. The very first question that they ask is how do you plan to pay for your visit. No money, no visit. It really pisses me off that our two-faced government is happy to throw billions to help AIDS victims in Africa and anyother place but will refuse to help an American. Maybe, I should get citizenship in an African nation. I'd have a much better chance of surviving. They are MY tax dollars, afterall.
Some may not like Moore but, he does get people talking and that is what he does best.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[airdweller 0]

I don't like him because he is fat and ugly. This does not sit well with me and my stereotype of a hollywood personality. So I don't trust him.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[DSE 5]

He's an artist. Artists make social statements. He doesn't make anything up, he takes what is there and puts it together in a manner that suits his own viewpoint. No different than Fallout Boy making a song about depression or falling in love.
The difference is, because Moore's work includes the leaders of our country, leaders that some of the US stupidly trusts, Moore is castigated for bringing their stupidity, greed, dishonorable behaviors to light.
"We have OB GYNs that can't practice their love for, their love, their love for women!" Hollywood couldn't script this kind of stupidity. Moore doesn't write this shit, he digs it up. He finds it. He uses it with a contextual bed that may not be 100%, but he doesn't lie, doesn't cheat. He presents it from his perspective only. From one side of the argument, Bush is a sweet guy who is defending Americans. From the other side of the discussion, Bush is a slimeball lining his pockets with profits from the war that he started for no good reason.
Somewhere in the middle lies a more accurate viewpoint, but IMO, both statements are still 100% true. Moore just happens to pick one side of view.
He's not the news. He's not a historian. He's a filmmaker and a damn good one. He gives away a LOT of his profits to others.
He's still a fat, loudmouth, cynic, but he's also got a lot of truth and an intent to bring government behavior to the fore. I have a tremendous respect for his work, just not him as a person. "Sicko" is a very important social film, IMO. If you don't have health insurance, you'll quickly understand why after seeing this movie.

[Butters 0]

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He doesn't make anything up, he takes what is there and puts it together in a manner that suits his own viewpoint.

I agree. He takes what is there, removes the context, and puts it together in a manner that suits his own viewpoint.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[akarunway 1]

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I hope that people finally open their eyes and see the truth about how dismal healthcare is in this country. That being sick is not a need for healthcare. Only having money is. I know firsthand that having a terminal illness does not mean that a doctor will treat you. The very first question that they ask is how do you plan to pay for your visit. No money, no visit. It really pisses me off that our two-faced government is happy to throw billions to help AIDS victims in Africa and anyother place but will refuse to help an American. Maybe, I should get citizenship in an African nation. I'd have a much better chance of surviving. They are MY tax dollars, afterall.
Some may not like Moore but, he does get people talking and that is his he does best.

I took a couple months off work last yr. I have paid over 50K for insurance in the last 5 yrs. I never used any of it. So I decide to go get a 50 yr. check-up. Guess what? I HAD NO FUCKIN INSURANCE. I think that says something about the ins. in the U.S. for sure. Come 1st of the yr. I'm gonna take a day off every week and burn that shit up.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[NCclimber 0]

He's a modern day PT Barnum.

It's amazing how many people come away from his films believing things that are complete lies.

I won a $100 wager on one of the "facts" presented in Farenheit 911.

The issues he raises are valid topics, deserving of public discussion. However, it seems his schtick is taking it over the top, which is arguable counter-productive.

[DSE 5]

So what? He's an ARTIST! He owes nothing more to the truth than Shakespeare or any other artist. Do you believe in winged babies? Mermaids? That Icarus actually flew with wax wings? Do you believe in Batman or the Silver Surfer? That old ladies can pick up pianos and carry them down the street?

These are all fantasies built upon some format of the truth. Moore doesn't go that far, but at the end of the day, he's an artist that provokes thought and discussion. That's exactly what art is intended to do.
Like it or not, there is a serious healthcare problem in the USA today, and it's only getting worse. His film may very likely be the linchpin that brings serious discussion to the table on this issue that affects ALL of us.
Pretty clear neither of you have made a film nor attempted to write a factual story. Just TRY to make a film or story that relies *entirely* on film/video clips containing uncontrolled/unscripted dialog. It's very difficult. Moore removes some context from time to time, so what? It's called "Artistic license."
Hollywood does it all the time, but no one comments on it (Unless it's a 5 minute freefall in "Point Break" or "Get Smart").

[NewGuy2005 53]

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Maybe, I should get citizenship in an African nation. I'd have a much better chance of surviving.

You don't really beleive that, do you?

[NCclimber 0]

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So what? He's an ARTIST! He owes nothing more to the truth than Shakespeare or any other artist. Do you believe in winged babies? Mermaids? That Icarus actually flew with wax wings? Do you believe in Batman or the Silver Surfer? That old ladies can pick up pianos and carry them down the street?

These are all fantasies built upon some format of the truth. Moore doesn't go that far, but at the end of the day, he's an artist that provokes thought and discussion. That's exactly what art is intended to do.

I look forward to the day our media uses this rationale, too.

[Amazon 7]

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I think ... that Michael Moore is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

So how do you feel about the flipside....Ann Coulter.

[Royd 0]

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Maybe, I should get citizenship in an African nation. I'd have a much better chance of surviving.

Cuba's closer. I hear that their health care is da bomb.

[Royd 0]

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Just TRY to make a film or story that relies *entirely* on film/video clips containing uncontrolled/unscripted dialog. It's very difficult. Moore removes some context from time to time, so what? It's called "Artistic license."

Does he add a disclaimer at the front of the movie for all of those who think that paint splattered on a canvas is art?

[DSE 5]

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Does he add a disclaimer at the front of the movie for all of those who think that paint splattered on a canvas is art?

Uhh...does he need to?
A-you're sitting in a movie theatre
B-It smells like popcorn
C-It's called a "Film"
D-He's known as a filmmaker, not a news reporter

Or perhaps you'd rather him take the tack of Discovery Channel crime shows; "The events you are about to see are true. Certain dramatizations have been added." Damn. On discovery, I actually witnessed Scot Peterson dumping his wife into the ocean.

Moore could say "The events you are about to see actually happened, no one was paid to say anything you'll hear them say. Certain scenes have been rearranged to generate a cohesive story but these words were all said, spoken about the relevant subject, by the people whose mouths you see moving when your ears hear their words. This film is 100% truth, just truth taken out of context because I'm an artist."
In the meanwhile, CNN is reporting on Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, and the new fall fabrics.

[rehmwa 2]

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I think ... that Michael Moore is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

So how do you feel about the flipside....Ann Coulter.

They serve about the same use. She's less sweaty, has less vermin on her.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Darius11 12]

Ann Coulter Is nuts. I was listening to Michael Gram on 96.9 and he had her on today. She is psycho and doesn’t even live in the realm of reality. MM at least uses facts agreed that his on opinions shape his films however he doesn’t just attempted to force his view down your throat, he actually attempts to make one understand his points by showing you the facts he presents.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rehmwa 2]

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Ann Coulter Is nuts. I was listening to Michael Gram on 96.9 and he had her on today. She is psycho and doesn’t even live in the realm of reality. MM at least uses facts agreed that his on opinions shape his films however he doesn’t just attempted to force his view down your throat, he actually attempts to make one understand his points by showing you the facts he presents.

I'd contend you are biased by your politics.

Both are fanatical about having facts and supporting documents to reference.

Both take those facts and twist and misuse them to make their pitch

Both get irrationally emotional about their points to point of incoherence.

etc etc etc


any statement that one is better than other just shows who's agenda you've bought in to

(these two are just in a long list of right and left wing 'entertainment' types - these two may only be exceptional in that they "might" actually belong to the subgroup that believes their own messages in totality)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

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I think ... that Michael Moore is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

So how do you feel about the flipside....Ann Coulter.

Ann Coulter is worse than Michael Moore.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Butters 0]

I have heard Micheal Moore make more valid statements than Anne Coulter. Does it really matter who is worse? No. They are both part of the problem.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rehmwa 2]

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I have heard Micheal Moore make more valid statements than Anne Coulter. Does it really matter who is worse? No. They are both part of the problem.

I've heard them make a LOT of 'validating' statements.

depends which demographic they're pandering to, I suspect

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants