NCclimber 0 #26 June 25, 2007 Quote Quote I have heard Micheal Moore make more valid statements than Anne Coulter. Does it really matter who is worse? No. They are both part of the problem. I've heard them make a LOT of 'validating' statements. depends which demographic they're pandering to, I suspect LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #27 June 25, 2007 QuoteI have heard Micheal Moore make more valid statements than Anne Coulter. Anne Coulter spends a lot of her time calling people gay, godless............. I think any rational person would not put MM in the same category as Anne Coulter.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #28 June 25, 2007 QuoteI hope that people finally open their eyes and see the truth about how dismal healthcare is in this country. That being sick is not a need for healthcare. Only having money is. I know firsthand that having a terminal illness does not mean that a doctor will treat you. The very first question that they ask is how do you plan to pay for your visit. No money, no visit. It really pisses me off that our two-faced government is happy to throw billions to help AIDS victims in Africa and anyother place but will refuse to help an American. Maybe, I should get citizenship in an African nation. I'd have a much better chance of surviving. They are MY tax dollars, afterall. Some may not like Moore but, he does get people talking and that is what he does best. The problem is trying to implement socialist healthcare in a capitalist economy (made even more difficult by the capitalist corporations currently in healthcare)."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #29 June 25, 2007 The USA needs to move more towards the center (from the right) when it comes to healthcare and a place like Canada also needs to move more towards the center (from the left). If you have money, the USA is a great place to be. But the problem is, is that the middle class is getting squeezed and under your system, sooner or later no one will be able to afford healthcare except the ultra rich (ceos, doctors and lawyers) ... all the while we here in Canada are just on the road to have no medical professionals period since they all migrated down to the USA for the $$$. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #30 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteI have heard Micheal Moore make more valid statements than Anne Coulter. Anne Coulter spends a lot of her time calling people gay, godless............. I think any rational person would not put MM in the same category as Anne Coulter. So you are saying the MM doesn't use inflammatory labeling of people he doesn't agree with? The point here is you might just not have issues with the labels MM uses so don't see it as equivalent tactics. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiccoli 0 #31 June 25, 2007 QuoteHe's an artist yes, in the sense that he can take excrement and arrange it in a way that people that dont educate themselves will buy it, sure. i even remember hearing somthing about an elephant being called an artist because it made a couple strokes with a brush the trainer put in its trunk. the problem is he presents himself in a way to get people to think he is a legitimate journalist. its one thing to make a biased film if you have an agenda and want to make a point. its another to make people think that you dont have an agenda (presenting yourself as unbiased and objective, which is the illusions he tries to give in his documetnaries) just so they automaticaly assume what your presenting to be the facts. its amazing how people just give informatin presented in documentaries the benifit of the doubt because its a documentary, instead of varifying with multiple sources and weighing the differences. has anyone bothered to watch Fahrenhype 911? it presents a contrasting argument to moores claims. its a documentary as well, but does a lot better at supporting its claims. its good to watch the two, and than evaluate for yourself. no, i type fast and dont capitalize or spellcheck. sorry.we need to talk about your flare.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #32 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteHe's an artist yes, in the sense that he can take excrement and arrange it in a way that people that dont educate themselves will buy it, sure. . Glad to know we both agree that most of what comes out of Bush's mouth is shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #33 June 26, 2007 Half Of Nation Outraged At New, Not-Yet-Released Michael Moore Film June 18, 2007 | Issue 43•25 WASHINGTON, DC—Though the film isn't scheduled for release until June 29, a New York Times/CBS News poll found that nearly half the nation believes Michael Moore's new health care documentary Sicko is "unpatriotic," "disgusting," and "ill-informed." "This film is absolutely tasteless and misguided, and I can't believe theaters are even showing it," said GOP presidential candidate Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS), who, along with the rest of the nation, has not yet seen the film. "I thought the role of a documentary filmmaker was to be objective, but moviegoers are going to leave the theater thinking that there is something wrong with some part of the United States, and that is just flat-out untrue." The other half of the nation has praised Sicko, calling it a "real eye-opener" that would "challenge people's preconceived notions." http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/half_of_nation_outraged_at _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #34 June 26, 2007 ...and then I saw it came from The Onion... This one had me laughing out loud... http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39451"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #35 June 27, 2007 I've said it here before and I'll say it again... "Public Health?" I've seen the results of "Public Housing" and "Public Education"... ...NO THANKS. I agree with billvon that a two-tier system based upon ability to pay is fairer and would be more efficient than "Universal Health Care". However, fatso Moore seems to think that a Socialist Worker's Paradise (TM) is preferable to a country that allows him to make money off his garbage. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ErricoMalatesta 0 #36 June 27, 2007 I haven't seen this film but I assume it goes something like this... ...Universal healthcare has no political support but is however supported by roughly 3/4 or more of the US population so it can safely be ignored and rarely gets brought up at election time... ...Its pretty much a paragraph of text stretched out into loud sounds, moving pictures and a visit to Cuba right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #37 June 28, 2007 I saw him on Leno last night and as much s I don't care for him he mentioned a few things covered by his movie that kind of pissed me off, such as the whole Cuba scene. Taking a bunch of workers inijured at ground zero on 9-11 who are paying out of pocket for their medical issues to Gitmo where people suspected of plotting 9-11 are getting free health care and insisting the releif workers get the sme treatment, then later taking them to a Cuban hospital and getting them all treated for free. I'm sure there's a little more to the story than that, Moore has proven his viewpoint is far from being the honest truth, but you still haev to take a step back and wonder about that one for a second. We do give excellent healhcare to prisoners, while combat vets who are discharged after being injured in Iraq are dealing with shitty VA hospitals or just paying out of pocket for decent treatment.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #38 June 28, 2007 Quote We do give excellent healhcare to prisoners, while combat vets who are discharged after being injured in Iraq are dealing with shitty VA hospitals or just paying out of pocket for decent treatment. Who is fighting for the prisoners treatment? Who is fighting for the soldiers treatment? There are many more individuals, organizations, etc... fighting for the prisoners treatment. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #39 June 28, 2007 IMO, Moore's presentation is as far to one side of the pendulum swing as it is, because it must be so. The bullshit that comes out of our government is so far swung to one side, that the extremity of the opposite side is needed. If someone is coming at you with a 50lb blackjack, do you hit them back with a 5 lb blackjack? Or would you hit them back with a 75lb blackjack? As said before, I think he's a big smelly arrogant turd, but he's a turd with creativity, and he tells the truth. It might be that he stretches the truth to it's thinnest point, but it *is* the truth. Facts/numbers can be skewed to represent whatever they need to represent. Washington and major corporations do it every day to pull the wool over our eyes. What's wrong with Moore taking creative license to do the same thing? ~Is there a huge problem of being insured and receiving medical care in America? ~Are people now more aware of it? If you honestly answered the second question, then Moore has been successful as an artistic provocateur. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #40 June 28, 2007 The end justifies the means, eh? IMO actively presenting deceptions, in order to sway opinions, is a big ole negative, when it comes to credibility.... But that's just me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #41 June 28, 2007 Quotehe tells the truth. It might be that he stretches the truth to it's thinnest point, but it *is* the truth. I wouldn't be nearly so generous. He lies, a lot, including a made-up newspaper cover story: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/7/30/204734.shtml It has been posted before, but I still don't think many realize how completely full of intentional deceit the Farneheit 911 movie was. Here are 59 good examples: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm Perhaps his Sicko movie is not so full of lies, but I wouldn't expect it given his history. QuoteFacts/numbers can be skewed to represent whatever they need to represent. Washington and major corporations do it every day to pull the wool over our eyes. What's wrong with Moore taking creative license to do the same thing? It's wrong when either side does it. Why not just expose the lies/deceit with the truth? When you get caught using lies/deceit to expose the lies/deceit, it destroys his credibility, which is needed if you are going to be such a champion of the little guy.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #42 June 28, 2007 Quote The end justifies the means, eh? IMO actively presenting deceptions, in order to sway opinions, is a big ole negative, when it comes to credibility.... But that's just me. Kinda like telling the world that Saddam had WMD's? Or telling the world we'd won the war? Saying that "By 2042 the Social Security system would be exhausted and bankrupt? Saying we have top-secret satellite photos showing amassed troops and weapons near an oil field, so we've got to go into protect it (when there weren't) Moore's stretching of the truth barely rates a play by comparison to the out-right lies of this administration. I don't believe Moore lies as a general practice. He does stretch the truth. IMO, that's no different than the bible or any other example of opinion-turned-fantastic. Presenting the bible (the world's greatest deception, IMO) in order to sway opinion or as reason to go to war doesn't help credibility much either. Moore doesn't deceive; he presents facts in a way that your mind makes its own decisions about thsoe facts. I distinctly heard George Bush say he supports OBGYN's having sex with their patients when I watched "Sicko." From that, I inferred that he supports pediatricians having sex with their patients. Is that what Bush meant? Nope. Is that the subtext that I heard? Absolutely. Is that what Moore wanted me to think? Maybe. So is the departure from the truth Moore's responsibility? Or mine? Quote Why not just expose the lies/deceit with the truth? Whose truth? My truth? Your truth? NCClimber's truth? None of the above? Truth can be bent, stretched twisted, turned, manipulated, tweaked, modified, or hidden in itself and used as a propaganda bullet for either side of any argument. Wrap it red, it's Republican truth. Wrap in blue, it's Dem truth. Wrap it in multicolor hues, it's everyone's truth, but still may not be accurate. It's true for example, that true followers of Islam want to kill all Americans. I know several followers of Islam and have broken bread with them. We've laughed, cried a bit, traveled a lot, and they've had every opportunity to slit my throat. Why am I still here if that's the truth? Truth is a fleeting moment of context. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #43 June 28, 2007 I just love this relativistic crap... condemning the smarmy behavior of those you dislike, while at the same time justifying the same behavior of those you like. Sleaze isn't conditional on political ideology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #44 June 28, 2007 But, but, but my person is only doing it because your person is doing it. An eye for an eye has truly made the whole world blind. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #45 June 28, 2007 Quote I just love this relativistic crap... condemning the smarmy behavior of those you dislike, while at the same time justifying the same behavior of those you like. Sleaze isn't conditional on political ideology. So then you're suggesting your behavior is "smarmy?" I wouldn't have thought so. Moore's position is called "balance." At this point, Hollywood could spend the next ten years making anti-government films entirely based on truthful accounts, propagandizing the nature of our leadership, and *never* balance the scales of what crap comes out of Washington. Your point about ideology is...? Relativistic? Everything is "relativistic." No matter where you come from or what you're doing. Relative to me, you're an idiot. Me relative to Kallend, I'm an idiot. Relative to Bush, Moore is a saint. Relative to Colin Powell, Moore is a scoundrel. And so goes the circle.... Have you seen "Sicko" yet? I have, which gives me an informed view on what it contains and says. If you haven't seen it, you're merely repeating rhetoric without your own thought or experiences, right? In other words, you've been "distracted by shiny things and yelling" instead of making the journey and seeing the elephant for yourself. I went. I don't agree with everything I viewed and heard, but at least I've made my thoughts based on what I saw and heard and aren't limiting myself to responding to the prejudiced viewpoints of what others told me. You're pissing at the messenger but you never heard the message.WWJD? he'd probably go see the film. But it's all 'relative', right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #46 June 28, 2007 It seems MM's core fan-base is quite devoted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #47 June 28, 2007 QuoteIt seems MM's core fan-baseGWB's Cult of the Eternal NEO-CON is quite devoted. There .. fixed it for ya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #48 June 28, 2007 QuoteA few years ago i asked why so many Americans hated Michael Moore. That was just after Farenheit 9/11 came out. Let’s not forget this guy tried to kill Spottswoode and destroyed on of the countries greatest treasures, Mt. Rushmore! How he was able to actually detonate all those explosives while gobbling down ketchup-slathered hotdogs with both hands proves what a total pig he is. The amazing part is he was somehow able to survive that horrendous explosion to make another one of his decietful movies! Must has been all his blubber that shielded him from the blast! He should be on the FBI’s most wanted list for that act of terrorism! I always wanted to see Mt. Rushmore and now thanks to that pig, I will never be able to go see it, much less take my children one day… Just terrible… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #49 June 28, 2007 Who does Michael Moore pray on? Quote"There's a gullible side to the American people." Michael Moore Why does Michael Moore pray on them? Quote"I'm a millionaire, I'm a multi-millionaire. I'm filthy rich." Michael Moore"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #50 June 28, 2007 Quote Quote It seems MM's core fan-baseGWB's Cult of the Eternal NEO-CON is quite devoted. There .. fixed it for ya OoooIs this like those "war supporters on here who believe that we have found Saddam's WMD's and that he was indeed involved in 9/11"? It seems some people believe if a claim is partially true (but also partially false) then it should be treated as being true. Personally, I'm a big fan of concepts like integrity, honesty and character. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
