SiCKO - What are your thoughts on Michael Moore's new film?

[Butters 0]

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The larger the pool the cheaper it can be, right?

Wrong. A small pool consisting of individuals considered at less risk would be cheaper than a large pool consisting of individuals considered at more risk.

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You are advocating insurance that disriminates against those with existing conditions, that doesnt adress the problem in any way whatsoever. By creating a large pool, everyone can be insured and costs are absorbed by so many more that premiums could still stay reasonable, I thought thats what this thread was discussing

I wasn't advocating anything. I was stating that a larger group does not always lower the cost.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[sundevil777 102]

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instead of pooling insurance through small orginations like uspa and some bowling league why not an insurance pool of 300,000,000 people by having "The People" create an insurance pool? The larger the pool the cheaper it can be, right?

Unless the government is administering it, then I wouldn't expect it to be cheaper.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Butters 0]

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Dont you know.. this is the land of I got Mine and the hell with the rest of THOSE people.

Wrong ... again. America donates more than any other nation.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[pirana 0]

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instead of pooling insurance through small orginations like uspa and some bowling league why not an insurance pool of 300,000,000 people by having "The People" create an insurance pool? The larger the pool the cheaper it can be, right?

Whether it is a lot of small pools, a few big ones, or one humongous one doesn't change the claims experience of the whole; it just changes the price variance from pool to pool (assuming all pools have slight variations in claims experience).

One big pool is not a bad thing, as long as people have choices within that pool. I think universal coverage is a plausible ideal; but if I'd rather take a very high deductible and save on my weekly or monthly premium, I should have that choice.

Bigger pools being cheaper may be a perception caused by the fact that most large employers charged little or nothing for coverage until recent years. Most people are shocked to find out that their $100 per month contribution was only 20 or 25% of the cost of their plan. In fact, many group plans are the most costly, because of the rich benefit set, liberal eligibility guidelines, minimal exclusions, etc.

With a universal coverage program, where you have your coverage becomes a trivial point. As long as you maintain continuous coverage, there are no exclusions, no waiting periods, etc. The only provisions would be to qualify for upgrades if there were various benefit levels to choose from; i.e. - you could not choose the Yugo plan, then switch to BMW the week prior to knee surgery.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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There is a global problem that health costs are spiralling out of control and problems with lack of capacity in regard to beds and treatments etc.

Actually, there is excess capacity in the US. Until recently, it was excessive excess capacity. The only place you will find shortage is maybe in rural areas. Metro areas have empty overnight beds by the oodles. It is changing slowly as older goliaths with their 100's and 100's of beds get replaced by surgical centers and the like.

The excess is mostly the result of reduced overnight hospital stays and building hospitals that were never needed to begin with. It is the downside of open competition, and another good reason to go not-for-profit on health care. A group of shareholders looking to invest might have all good intentions on building the next big white building with patients, but the glut of space does nothing to improve the health of the community, and actually drives up the overall cost of care. Think of empty beds as inventory. Effective organizations do not carry excess inventory.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Amazon 7]

Then why do so many in our country have no insurance for their families...??

Even the indigent and those on welfare get some health coverage from most states.. yet we have a WHOLE lot of HAVE NOTS.


How much of all that givin... goes to buy fancy multimillion dollar homes... HUGE churches.. yachts.. cars... airplanes.... for the righteous ole reverend???

I bet some of that might buy a little bit of health care for a sick child.

[NCclimber 0]

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Dont you know.. this is the land of I got Mine and the hell with the rest of THOSE people.

IMO it's better than the land of I've done little to take care of myself, therefore I'm entitled to make you take care of me.

The Entitlement mentality, that seems to be growing in this country, scares me.

[Butters 0]

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Dont you know.. this is the land of I got Mine and the hell with the rest of THOSE people.

You made a general statement that was incorrect. Do you ever present any relevant information or do you only present your pessimistic perspective littered with personal attacks?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NCclimber 0]

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Then why do so many in our country have no insurance for their families...??

Even the indigent and those on welfare get some health coverage from most states.. yet we have a WHOLE lot of HAVE NOTS.


How much of all that givin... goes to buy fancy multimillion dollar homes... HUGE churches.. yachts.. cars... airplanes.... for the righteous ole reverend???

I bet some of that might buy a little bit of health care for a sick child.

There are exceptions. On average, ministers make about $50K per year.

[Amazon 7]

But but but...

I have to make the pessimistic statements for balance.. to make you people remember that its NOT the same for everyone...its not all that WOW everything is great in my little world..for everyone.

Plus its fun to give you guys someone to bitch at.. see how easy it is to get your boxers all knotted up

[Royd 0]

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How much of all that givin... goes to buy fancy multimillion dollar homes... HUGE churches.. yachts.. cars... airplanes.... for the righteous ole reverend???

I bet some of that might buy a little bit of health care for a sick child.

What has giving to a church or any other ogranization got to do with the "health care crisis"?
You're sounding more like Hillary everyday. No company or individual should make a profit or save a dime until everyone has an equal amount of money, and noone makes a profit or saves a dime.

Sorry about the PA.

[Butters 0]

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...see how easy it is to get your boxers all knotted up

You are a master debater.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[azdiver 0]

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Then why do so many in our country have no insurance for their families...??

Even the indigent and those on welfare get some health coverage from most states.. yet we have a WHOLE lot of HAVE NOTS.


How much of all that givin... goes to buy fancy multimillion dollar homes... HUGE churches.. yachts.. cars... airplanes.... for the righteous ole reverend???

I bet some of that might buy a little bit of health care for a sick child.

for some people insurance is point less, the rich dont need to spend money on insurance because they can pay for their health care as needed, for some others with out like me for example i dont have it because im young and pretty healthy the only major health issue ive had was appendicitis and the cost for health insurance for the last 10 years(the time i have been a working class person) would have been more than what it cost for the surgery. so i opt not to have it, as do many others like me, i did have insurance for a little while but that was because it was a perk for my job and didnt cost me anything, other wise i would not have had it.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[Amazon 7]

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for some others with out like me for example i dont have it because im young and pretty healthy the only major health issue ive had was appendicitis and the cost for health insurance for the last 10 years(the time i have been a working class person) would have been more than what it cost for the surgery. so i opt not to have it, as do many others like me, i did have insurance for a little while but that was because it was a perk for my job and didnt cost me anything, other wise i would not have had it.

SO... I have to ask.. who is going to pay for your medical care should you have a landing accident..bust yourself up....femur.. or something else

I hope you have some kind of car insurance at least that somewhat covers you in case of a car accident.

How about if you fall down the stairs of your apartment... and break your neck... requiring long term care??

Life has an interesting way of stepping up and slapping...even the young and healthy.... right in the kisser.

[nathaniel 0]

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When you try to talk nuts and bolts about health care financing many seem insulted because they can't even accept there should be a price tag, much less be price sensitive decisions to make.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Ignoring the price tags will not make them go away. Ignorance only makes our eventual choices worse when the money runs out. Illness (apart from catastrophe) and death is inevitable. We should not throw away what we have in catering to fantasies about what we can't.

A realistic discussion of health care can only take place inside an economic framework, whether at macro (taxes, GDP, aggregate supply / demand, needs, costs of treatment and administration, wealth redistribution, in/equality of care, etc) or micro levels (your budget, your options and your needs), or in between. Otherwise it's fluff. Food for thought, maybe, but way more entertainment than documentary.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[sundevil777 102]

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break you neck

did you forget an "r"?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2788988;search_string=you;#2788988

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

Thanks for catching that.. obviously the spell check did not catch it.

[azdiver 0]

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for some others with out like me for example i dont have it because im young and pretty healthy the only major health issue ive had was appendicitis and the cost for health insurance for the last 10 years(the time i have been a working class person) would have been more than what it cost for the surgery. so i opt not to have it, as do many others like me, i did have insurance for a little while but that was because it was a perk for my job and didnt cost me anything, other wise i would not have had it.

SO... I have to ask.. who is going to pay for your medical care should you have a landing accident..bust yourself up....femur.. or something else

I hope you have some kind of car insurance at least that somewhat covers you in case of a car accident.

How about if you fall down the stairs of your apartment... and break your neck... requiring long term care??

Life has an interesting way of stepping up and slapping...even the young and healthy.... right in the kisser.

like i said if something happens to me and medical care is required i will pay the bill. as for car insurance i have full coverage but car insurance is a must unless one wants to chance getting caught by the cops without it. sense i own my own home i dont have to chance the stairs of an apt. but if for some reason i needed long term care i would find a way to deal with it, as i do have options on ways to come up with the money.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[DSE 5]

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like i said if something happens to me and medical care is required i will pay the bill. as for car insurance i have full coverage but car insurance is a must unless one wants to chance getting caught by the cops without it. sense i own my own home i dont have to chance the stairs of an apt. but if for some reason i needed long term care i would find a way to deal with it, as i do have options on ways to come up with the money.

You're aware of how much "the money" might be, right? In other words, you can come up with 100k (in advance) if you have a brain or heart problem? Or even say....65K if you chop a finger or toe? Or half a million if you end up with a mid-term hospital stay?You're ready to come up with that kind of money if an uninsured driver slams into you on the street? Drive-by gangbanger shoots you at the supermarket? Other incident well beyond your control?
Health insurance is just as much (if not more) a "must" than automotive insurance, given the cost of care. I can easily come up with the 10-30K if I hit someone's car and have to repair/replace their car and maybe pay for some minor hospitalization. I can't come up with the kind of coin mentioned previously.

[freethefly 6]

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for some people insurance is point less, the rich dont need to spend money on insurance because they can pay for their health care as needed,

Most people know just how fast a health crisis can deplete a bank account. If I were wealthy, I'd have great coverage. I am not wealthy but, at one time had a very healthy bank account, a great mutual fund along with some stock and a 401K that would had set me up as a millionaire in due time if not for an unforseen illness that wiped me out and forced me into bankruptcy.
You say;

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for some others with out like me for example i dont have it because im young and pretty healthy the only major health issue ive had was appendicitis and the cost for health insurance for the last 10 years(the time i have been a working class person) would have been more than what it cost for the surgery. so i opt not to have it, as do many others like me,

I was fairly young at 34 and extremely healthy. When you unexpectively get ill and cannot work it is amazing just how fast all that you built up comes crumbling down. Had I invested in a health plan, I most likely would had not had to spend the thousands of dollars only to be broke in a few months. Near 15 years of savings gone in a blink.

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i did have insurance for a little while but that was because it was a perk for my job and didnt cost me anything, other wise i would not have had it.

Do yourself a favor and purchase a health plan. It will only cost you but a few dollars a month and will save your ass and any savings that you may have.
I wish I had.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[airkid 0]

OK... originally i was going to post here and be a real smart ass... but honestly i hate michael moore. i think he should die. his sole intent is to stir trouble in political seats. all he succeeds in doing is deterierating the good order and discipline in our government and the systems to which this nation operates. here is a question for you.... "if he likes canada so damned much and how they do things, why doesn't he take his dumb-ass up there and live?" he doesnt need to be in my country publicly humiliating our leaders and challenging the integrity of this nation. his idealistic views on reform and revolution our nothing more than nuiscances that slow the development of our country.......

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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if he likes canada so damned much

I have a question for those who have seen this movie. I read somewhere that Moore speaks of a woman in the movie who needed major dental work but could not get it because she lived paycheck to paycheck. Now I am under the impression that Moore said this would never happen in Canada? Huh? Dental work is not covereged up here under out socialized system. If someone needs major dental work here and they can't afford it, well they lose their teeth just as a poor person in America would. Is Michael Moore spreading lies? Where did he get his information that Canadians have universal dental care?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[mnealtx 0]

How *DARE* you question St. Michael, sirrah???

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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but honestly i hate michael moore. i think he should die.

Wow... just Wow...

We are all feeling all this right wing LOVE.

[Royd 0]

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but honestly i hate michael moore. i think he should die.

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Wow... just Wow...

We are all feeling all this right wing LOVE.

We don't claim to be the party of warm, fuzzy, love and compassion, while we are spewing hate and vitriol out of the other side of our mouths.