41% Americans are below what IQ?

[Amazon 7]

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Interesting.. then why has it not been published... on the FLIP side...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501554.html

Report Finds No Evidence Syria Hid Iraqi Arms


I would think that would be a FAR greater story that Cheney and his buddies would be thumping their chests on every Fox News program daily.

[mnealtx 0]

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Although Syria helped Iraq evade U.N.-imposed sanctions by shipping military and other products across its borders, the investigators "found no senior policy, program, or intelligence officials who admitted any direct knowledge of such movement of WMD." Because of the insular nature of Saddam Hussein's government, however, the investigators were "unable to rule out unofficial movement of limited WMD-related materials."

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U.S. officials have held out the possibility that Syria worked in tandem with Hussein's government to hide weapons before the U.S.-led invasion. The survey group said it followed up on reports that a Syrian security officer had discussed collaboration with Iraq on weapons, but it was unable to complete that investigation. But Iraqi officials whom the group was able to interview "uniformly denied any knowledge of residual WMD that could have been secreted to Syria," the report said.

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The report found that missing equipment, however, "could contribute to insurgent or terrorist production of chemical or biological agents."

In most cases the equipment appeared to have been randomly looted, but in selected cases it appeared "to be taken away carefully," Duelfer said in an interview yesterday. Overall, though, "it's like going to a demolition derby for car parts," said Duelfer. The right equipment "is hard to get."

Yup...certainly sounds like ABSOLUTE PROOF to me...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Para_Frog 1]

Well, when Hillary sends me and da boys into Syria and/or Iran I'll be sure to report back. But if it was in the WashPost, I'm sure it's true, so eyewitness accounts might be moot.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Amazon 7]

You said its declassified... post it.. Link it.

If it is really out there George and the DICK would be providing it for all to see on FOX NEWS....I cant seem to find it there.

[Para_Frog 1]

Oh honey...

Declassified does not translate as on the internet

Good grief.

The San Francisco press (of all unbiased sources) did the legwork on the FOI Act and actually came pretty close. SFGate did a piece on a certain Turkish operation that was so close - it HAD to be leaked. And actually strengthened the Neo-Con (as you like to label over and over) position.

Today's lesson...it's declassified. It's there. Good men supplied the info. Go find it.

Hint: (it's not necessarily on your beloved internet...step awaaaay from the computer)

[jedi mind trick]Just because it's NOT online...it can still be factual - wow[/jedi mind trick]

Prewar Movement of WMD Material Out of Iraq, stating "ISG judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place" but also acknowledging that "ISG was unable to complete its investigation and is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was evacuated to Syria before the war."- Duelfer Report

Edit to add: I don't personally give a rat's ass what Dick and George do. Nor what Hilla-Obam-Kucin-whoever the hell does with the information provided them. They're all out for money. I go where the bad guys are.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[billvon 2,998]

>We didn't find shit after March 03.

You'll get an argument on that from some of the more fervent war supporters here!

>We had teams inside in late 02 watching the exodus westward.

So you're saying the sanctions and threats . . . worked? Saddam was in fact disarmed? Interesting.

[Amazon 7]

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Oh honey...

Declassified does not translate as on the internet

Good grief.

Come on.. get real here.. IF that information was true.... George and Dick would be getting huge hardons and be creaming all over the press with the information in one HUGE OVAL circle-Jerk.... the Ultra right wingers live for that kind of proof.

That shit would have been declassified in a New York Minute and would have been emblazoned all over EVERY news outlet in the world as PROOF of the need to go to war.

[Para_Frog 1]

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>We didn't find shit after March 03.

You'll get an argument on that from some of the more fervent war supporters here! I've never claimed that support equals experience - there was quite a bit of ancillary proof left behind, but we watched the bulk march right out the back door

>We had teams inside in late 02 watching the exodus westward.

So you're saying the sanctions and threats . . . worked? Saddam was in fact disarmed? Interesting.

A threat with no action to back it up = Kofi Annan. He needed removed and routed. I disagree with supporting a cowardly population. They are wonderful people - you should both go there and meet some Iraqis (but you prefer to just assume they hate us there, when actually - I saw grown men weep when families begged us to stay) - but they lack the fortitude to stand up against a minority of thugs.

I just hope they get it someday.

Instead of beating up the administration (I bet you were silent during Somalia - you need to realize parties have nothing to do with war) why don't you join an NGO and go help. We could use it. Shit, I'll put you in touch with some great people. They disagree with everything I stand for, but they do great work for the Iraqis.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Para_Frog 1]

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Oh honey...

Declassified does not translate as on the internet

Good grief.

Come on.. get real here.. IF that information was true.... George and Dick would be getting huge hardons and be creaming all over the press with the information in one HUGE OVAL circle-Jerk.... the Ultra right wingers live for that kind of proof.

That shit would have been declassified in a New York Minute and would have been emblazoned all over EVERY news outlet in the world as PROOF of the need to go to war.

Such elloquence...thank you for illustrating the level of dialog and thus disqualifying me. Oy.

Hey Bill, when is HH firing up the new site for we black sheep? Time to move on...oh sorry....I mean moveon.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[billvon 2,998]

>A threat with no action to back it up = Kofi Annan.

?? The UN was quite close to agreeing to the use of force; both Germany and France were OK with a time limit, after which they would support invasion if Saddam had not complied. We didn't want to wait; we wanted that war.

>I disagree with supporting a cowardly population. They are wonderful
>people - you should both go there and meet some Iraqis (but you prefer
>to just assume they hate us there . . . .)

The ones whose families we accidentally kill don't like us too much. I suspect you'd feel the same way. Most Iraqis are quite nice I imagine, as are most people everywhere.

>when actually - I saw grown men weep when families begged us to stay)
>but they lack the fortitude to stand up against a minority of thugs.

So you disagree with supporting them?

>Instead of beating up the administration (I bet you were silent during
>Somalia . . .

You'd lose that bet!

>you need to realize parties have nothing to do with war . . .

Who said they did? One man decided to invade Iraq; most members of both parties supported him when he did.

>why don't you join an NGO and go help.

Because I don't support this war. The best way to 'help' is to end it.

[dorbie 0]

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There are several war supporters on here who believe that we have found Saddam's WMD's and that he was indeed involved in 9/11.

Those are two distinct issues, additionally the Iraqi association with and shelter of terrorists is on record even if they had no known operational connection with Al Qaeda.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d7fHvHXeiQ

Contrary to the misleading impression you'd like to convey Amazon provided NO examples of anyone meeting your criteria, she simply ignored your second accusation and as your anticipation of a response admits, exaggerated the first.

[NCclimber 0]

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>We didn't find shit after March 03.

You'll get an argument on that from some of the more fervent war supporters here!

LOL! You crack me up!

[Amazon 7]

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Such elloquence...thank you for illustrating the level of dialog and thus disqualifying me

Just thought I would use the terminology I learned compliments of the USAF back in the early 70's .. to illustrate the point...glad you understood the implications.

[NewGuy2005 53]

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>A threat with no action to back it up = Kofi Annan.

?? The UN was quite close to agreeing to the use of force; both Germany and France were OK with a time limit, after which they would support invasion if Saddam had not complied. We didn't want to wait; we wanted that war.

Would you support the war if the UN had authorized it?

[juanesky 0]

No. He would have supported the invasion of Iraq by the cult of the flying spaghetti monster.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[NewGuy2005 53]

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>A threat with no action to back it up = Kofi Annan.

?? The UN was quite close to agreeing to the use of force; both Germany and France were OK with a time limit, after which they would support invasion if Saddam had not complied. We didn't want to wait; we wanted that war.

Would you support the war if the UN had authorized it?

For the record, I'm not saying I support the war. I used to, but not so sure it wasn't a mistake.

[billvon 2,998]

>Would you support the war if the UN had authorized it?

Nope. But the whole world would now be trying to clean up Iraq, instead of one country. I suspect the world would have had more success.

[NCclimber 0]

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>Would you support the war if the UN had authorized it?

Nope. But the whole world would now be trying to clean up Iraq, instead of one country. I suspect the world would have had more success.

Why? What could the US have done differently that would have resulted in more success?

[marks2065 0]

most people including the dem party supported the war - when things got tough the pussies went from supporting the war to protesting it or trying to get elected over it - war is a dirty game and if people didn't have the stomach for it they shouldn't have supported it in the first place - but now that it has happened we need to see it through and give our people over there the tools to finish the job - not sit back here and tie their hands with protests and political agendas - if the first bush had the balls to stand up to the UN and the war protesting pussies back in the first gulf war the iraqi people wouldn't hate us as much because we ran out on them and this war would not be taking place right now - and as far as gwb goes he may be a lowsy speaker but i think he has alot of character to stand up to the un, the war protesting pussies, and the dem party and not just have diareha of the mouth on classified info so the pussies can have the proof they want - i have talked to alot of war vets that were in iraq and know what happened over there and what was found/not found and know the american people don't have half the info to make an eduacated descision - all they have is the negative news media reports that are on tv for ratings only - not to be fair and just only to get ratings

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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What could the US have done differently that would have resulted in more success?

Simple ... not invade Iraq.

Why did the US invade Iraq? The masses were lied to when we were told it was about terrorism and WMD. But in reality we all know the reason why the US invaded Iraq was two fold. To control Iraq's oil and to feed the industrial military complex and kick start the US economy.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[NCclimber 0]

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What could the US have done differently that would have resulted in more success?

Simple ... not invade Iraq.

Do you know the meaning of context?

[billvon 2,998]

>What could the US have done differently that would have resulted in more success?

I said the world could have done better, not the US.

But to answer your new question, the US could have:

- used military leaders/troops who understood the area a bit better. We went into this war woefully unprepared; the people who _were_ leading the war thought we'd be welcomed with flowers, as liberators. This translates to listening to more Iraq experts and military commanders with experience in the area and less to Rumsfeld/Cheney.

- placed less emphasis on exiles who told us exactly what we wanted to hear. Our intelligence work before we invaded was pitifully bad.

- not disbanded the Iraqi army. Having the lower levels of such an army (under new command) would have made post-invasion security a LOT easier.

- used far more troops. Had we sent half a million troops to Iraq as part of the initial invasion, insurgents and terrorists would have had a harder time strenghtening in Iraqi cities. That goes back to listening to military experts and not Rumsfeld/Cheney.

- not equated the Baath party with Saddam Hussein; rather, arrested everyone directly supporting Saddam and allow the party itself to remain. The Baath party is a secular, anti-communist political party present in other countries like Yemen, Lebanonm Syria and Syria. Having some non-sectarian leadership with ties to other countries would have provided a significant stabilizing force.

- not bombed so indiscriminately. It did not help pacify the cities we bombed, and created a lot of resistance to the US immediately after the invasion.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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What could the US have done differently that would have resulted in more success?

Simple ... not invade Iraq.

Do you know the meaning of context?

Spin it anyway you want. The bottom line is that the USA has made the world a more dangerous place thanks to your greed for oil and your constant need to feed your industrial military complex for your own selfish economic gains.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 2,998]

>war is a dirty game and if people didn't have the stomach for it they
>shouldn't have supported it in the first place -

Definitely! I get a bit sick of people who support war until it turns bloody; they then say "well, gee, I didn't expect the war to go badly; how did that happen?" That's what war is; it's the very definition of things going badly.

>but now that it has happened we need to see it through and give our
>people over there the tools to finish the job -

Now that it has happened we need leaders with the intelligence to do what is best for the US and for Iraq, not brainless talking heads who spout platitudes like "shut up and support the troops!" and "reducing troop levels means the terrorists win."

>and as far as gwb goes he may be a lowsy speaker but i think he has alot
>of character to stand up to the un, the war protesting pussies, and the
>dem party . . .

If our president had done more planning for the invasion and less battling with the UN, the "war protesting pussies" and the democratic party, we might not have 3000 US troops dead and a civil war in Iraq today.

[idrankwhat 0]

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What could the US have done differently that would have resulted in more success?

Simple ... not invade Iraq.

Do you know the meaning of context?

Spin it anyway you want. The bottom line is that the USA has made the world a more dangerous place thanks to your greed for oil and your constant need to feed your industrial military complex for your own selfish economic gains.

That's not all of it. Google "A Clean Break". Mostly it seems to indicate that the war was more for Israel's security as well as installing Hashemite rule in the region. I'm sure that oil played into the latter idea. The military industrial complex's feeding at the trough of the US Treasury is just icing on the cake.