:-) AMNESTY BILL Defeated :-) 53-46

[SkyChimp 0]

What are your thoughts and opinions after today's vote in the Senate? Do you agree with the outcome or not?

Below are the voting results for each state.


ALL SENATORS WHO VOTED NO ON AMNESTY TODAY


Alabama: Sen. Jeff Sessions, Sen. Richard Shelby
Alaska: Sen. Lisa Murkowski, Sen. Ted Stevens
Arkansas: Sen Mark Pryor

Colorado: Sen. Wayne Allard
Georgia: Sen. Saxby Chambliss, Sen. Johnny Isakson
Idaho: Sen. Michael Crapo

Indiana: Sen. Evan Bayh
Iowa: Sen. Tom Harkin, Sen. Charles Grassley
Kansas: Sen. Sam Brownback, Sen. Pat Roberts

Kentucky: Sen. Mitch McConnell, Sen. Jim Bunning
Louisiana: Sen. Mary Landrieu, Sen. David Vitter
Maine: Sen. Susan Collins

Michigan: Sen. Debbie Stabenow
Minnesota: Sen. Norm Coleman
Mississippi: Sen. Thad Cochran

Missouri: Sen. Kit Bond, Sen. Claire McCaskill
Montana: Sen. Max Baucus, Sen. Jon Tester
Nebraska: Sen. Ben Nelson

New Hampshire: Sen. John Sununu
Nevada: Sen. John Ensign
New Mexico: Sen. Jeff Bingman, Sen. Pete Domenici

North Carolina: Sen. Richard Burr, Sen. Elizabeth Dole
North Dakota: Sen. Byron Dorgan
Ohio: Sen. Sherrod Brown, Sen. George Voinovich

Oklahoma: Sen. Tom Coburn, Sen. Jim Inhofe
Oregon: Sen. Gordon Smith
South Carolina: Sen. Jim DeMint

South Dakota: Sen. John Thune
Tennessee: Sen. Lamar Alexander, Sen. Bob Corker
Texas: Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Sen. John Cornyn

Utah: Sen. Orrin Hatch
Vermont: Sen. Bernie Sanders
Virginia: Sen. John Warner, Sen. Jim Webb

West Virginia: Sen. Robert Byrd, Sen. Jay Rockefeller
Wyoming: Sen. John Barrasso, Sen. Mike Enzi



THE GREAT PROTECTORS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS AND OUTLAW BUSINESSES


Arizona: Sen. John Kyl, Sen. John McCain
Arkansas: Sen. Blanche Lincoln
California: Sen. Barbara Boxer, Sen. Diane Feinstein

Colorado: Sen. Ken Salazar
Connecticut: Sen. Joe Lieberman, Sen. Chris Dodd
Delaware: Sen. Joseph Biden, Sen. Tom Carper

Florida: Sen. Mel Martinez, Sen. Bill Nelson
Hawaii: Sen. Daniel Akaka, Sen. Daniel Inouye
Idaho: Sen. Larry Craig

Illinois: Sen. Dick Durbin, Sen. Barack Obama
Indiana: Sen. Dick Lugar
Maine: Sen. Olympia Snowe

Maryland: Sen. Ben Cardin, Sen. Barbara Mikulski
Massachusetts: Sen. Ted Kennedy, Sen. John Kerry
Michigan: Sen. Carl Levin

Minnesota: Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Mississippi: Sen. Trent Lott
Nebraska: Sen. Chuck Hagel

Nevada: Sen. Harry Reid
New Hampshire: Sen. Judd Gregg
New Jersey: Sen. Frank Lautenberg, Sen. Robert Menendez

New York: Sen. Hillary Clinton, Sen. Chuck Schumer
North Dakota: Sen. Kent Conrad
Oregon: Sen. Ron Wyden

Pennsylvania: Sen. Robert Casey, Sen. Arlen Specter
Rhode Island: Sen. Jack Reed, Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse
South Carolina: Sen. Lindsay Graham

Utah: Sen. Bob Bennett
Vermont: Sen. Patrick Leahy
Washington: Sen. Maria Cantwell, Sen. Patty Murray
Wisconsin: Sen. Russ Feingold, Sen. Herb Kohl

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[sundevil777 102]

It is such bullshit when the supporters try to claim it isn't amnesty because of the things that must be done to gain citizenship. All that is meaningless when the illegal aliens can just keep renewing the temp visa, they don't ever have to seek citizenship to stay and work in the US.

Ann Coulter had a good suggestion during her interview on O'Reilly. She said that illegal aliens should be allowed to sue their employers for not paying minimum wage. That would be a good incentive to not hire illegals, or at least to increase their pay.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rushmc 23]

Now we get to watch the temper tantrums. How dare the people make their wishes known. Dam, don't we know they all know what is better for us than we do???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gawain 0]

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Now we get to watch the temper tantrums. How dare the people make their wishes known. Dam, don't we know they all know what is better for us than we do???

What was also brought to light in this debate is the fact that many of these Senators and Congressmen didn't even know what was in the damn bill.

Stifles the imagination doesn't it...the law makers don't even know the composition of the laws they write?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Stifles the imagination doesn't it...the law makers don't even know the composition of the laws they write?

They don't write them. A few of them, or their aides, do.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

I can't morally justify telling mostly brown people they can't stay when there were no legal impediments to my white ancestors showing up from Denmark, England, Germany, and Ireland.

They may depress wages for the jobs they fill, although since they have to make enough to cover the cost of living in this country the effects are likely to be less than when we outsource the same jobs to places with labor costs 1/10th what they are here. A collision between our wages+cost of living and the developing world is coming and keeping the immigrants out isn't going to stop it.

Few will pay their "fair" share of national expenditures, although few of us do. 3 trillion split 130 million ways is $23K per tax payer.

[mnealtx 0]

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I can't morally justify telling mostly brown people they can't stay when there were no legal impediments to my white ancestors showing up from Denmark, England, Germany, and Ireland.

Bullshit - that's like saying "I can't morally justify making someone pay for entrance to a concert in the city park, when I used to get in free before they started charging entrance".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Royd 0]

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I can't morally justify telling mostly brown people they can't stay when there were no legal impediments to my white ancestors showing up from Denmark, England, Germany, and Ireland.

There are already laws and a system for them to enter this country legally. We need to enforce it, and they need to use. Problem solved.

[sundevil777 102]

I can't morally justify telling all the people that didn't break immigration laws that they won't get the same opportunity for a visa the same as those that have broken the law will get.

I do think that there should be a LOT more legal immigration allowed. There should be no problem with that once illegal immigration is controlled.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 102]

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Now we get to watch the temper tantrums. How dare the people make their wishes known. Dam, don't we know they all know what is better for us than we do???

The dems want an issue to use for the next election, they can say that Repubs are anti-hispanic, blah, blah.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I can't morally justify telling mostly brown people they can't stay when there were no legal impediments to my white ancestors showing up from Denmark, England, Germany, and Ireland.

There are already laws and a system for them to enter this country legally. We need to enforce it, and they need to use. Problem solved.

America became the greatest nation on the planet when our immigration laws were that any white person was welcome without quotas or limits on employment. That should be extended to the Chinese and Mexicans who were previously excluded since there aren't real differences between them and us.

Recently we've decided that we're here and want the land all to ourselves and closed down immigration. I can't defend that morally or see it changing the inevitable homoginization of wages, costs of living, and laws arround the globe.

Amnesty for those who were motivated enough to get here is a more politically viable step back towards both what made our nation great and impending globalization.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I can't morally justify telling mostly brown people they can't stay when there were no legal impediments to my white ancestors showing up from Denmark, England, Germany, and Ireland.

There are already laws and a system for them to enter this country legally. We need to enforce it, and they need to use. Problem solved.

The laws have become substantially more restrictive than when my ancestors got here (and probably yours). Amnesty is more politically viable than a roll back.

[jumpinfarmer 0]

Well said. I'm not real big on the idea of Mexicans doing work that Americans could but since most Americans have become too lazy to do many jobs that are necessary we have little choice but to let them in.

[BillyVance 34]

fuck yeah! my home state senators voted NO...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Casurf1978 0]

Have you read the bill? I'm starting to read it. It's not all about amnesty. What do you find wrong with it? A good portion of the bill deals with border security. It's not a perfect bill, but it's a start. I hate to say this, but I'm with Bush on this bill. I think most people see amnesty and illegals in the same sentence and jump to conclusions.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1639

[mnealtx 0]

Fix the border security and enforcement issues first...THEN consider the rest of it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sundevil777 102]

A long time ago, many countries did not have effective limitations on immigration, not just the US.

The US is not the only country that now has limitations on immigration.

I am in favor of allowing a lot more legal immigration, but only after we gain control of our borders and enforce the existing employment laws.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[FreeflyChile 0]

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Arkansas: Sen Mark Pryor

So THAT's where Prior has been...the whole "can't pitch for the Cubs because he's been injured has been a cover story!!

Seriously though, i'm just wondering what people see as a solution to this -- its not like you can round up 12 million people and send them to their places of origin. and i don't mean "enforce immigration laws" or general statements like that - i mean specific solutions grounded in reality based on costs of implementation, costs to everyone who's here legally (im thinking 4th amendment issues right now, but there could be other things too) and likelihood of success.

edited to remove the bold.

[sundevil777 102]

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Well said. I'm not real big on the idea of Mexicans doing work that Americans could but since most Americans have become too lazy to do many jobs that are necessary we have little choice but to let them in.

That sounds like you are in favor of having a permanent underclass of immigrants that can be exploited. All of this in the supposed interest of preventing an increase in inflation. Is that the real message that liberals/progressives want to advocate?

America is better served by innovation that increases productivity, not by a permanent underclass working cheaply to keep the price of produce low. However, this cheap farm labor prevents market incentives from causing innovation, such as the development and manufacturing of farm machinery that replace manual labor - whole new industries have traditionally started in just this way. That has been the model for advances in many areas, why are we to accept that it be supressed by the cheap, illegal workers?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 102]

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i'm just wondering what people see as a solution to this -- its not like you can round up 12 million people and send them to their places of origin

Not all at once, for sure, but that would certainly be a part of it. However, if it is extremely difficult for illegals to get work, they would have an incentive to leave on their own, wouldn't they? Even if due to lack of work they became too poor to get back on their own, they could turn themselves in for deportation.

If illegals that are here get visas that can be renewed indefinitely, then shouldn't we give everyone that wants into the US the same visa?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kelpdiver 2]

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America became the greatest nation on the planet when our immigration laws were that any white person was welcome without quotas or limits on employment.

Open immigration was closed off well before the end of WWII. And in the 19th Century, America still had a frontier. Now it has population issues.

California is not getting better as it pushes towards 40 Million. Opening the border without subterfuge will be a socialist transfer of wealth from those that are here to all those that can fit in.

[Casurf1978 0]

Thats what the bill does. Fix the borders and then start addressing the other issues. Have you read any of it? It's not a perfect bill, nor do I think one could be made, but it's a start. What do you find wrong with it?

[crwtom 0]

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That sounds like you are in favor of having a permanent underclass of immigrants that can be exploited. All of this in the supposed interest of preventing an increase in inflation. Is that the real message that liberals/progressives want to advocate?

The best environment to create an "underclass" is to keep people in a
legal gray zone - no rights, constant fear, etc. After the do-nothing
populists had their day this is what it will continue to be. Congrats!

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[Royd 0]

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Recently we've decided that we're here and want the land all to ourselves and closed down immigration. I can't defend that morally or see it changing the inevitable homoginization of wages, costs of living, and laws arround the globe.

Since you don't see the importance of borders and laws, let's bring it a little closer to home. How would you feel if a truck load of Mexicans moved into your yard and set up camp, without your permission?

[Royd 0]

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Seriously though, i'm just wondering what people see as a solution to this -- its not like you can round up 12 million people and send them to their places of origin.

I'll use an anology from Rush yesterday.

If 12 Million Americans decided not to pay their income tax, do you think that there would be an effort to find them?