"Inventing New Lies About Terrorism" (Strategy Page)

[Guest]

Inventing New Lies

July 24, 2007: One of the largely unspoken grudges Europe has against the United States is how the American reaction to September 11, 2001 (the invasion of Afghanistan, followed by going into Iraq) caused their informal, but quite effective, truce with terrorists to be broken. Ever since the first wave of Palestinian terrorism in the 1960s and 70s, European nations worked out deals where they would provide safe haven for terrorist organizations, and welfare benefits for terrorists and their families, as long as there were no attacks on the host countries. This was largely successful, despite complaints from the United States, and the nations the terrorists were operating against. Even the United States was guilty of this, as was revealed when the perpetrators of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center were found to be led by a Moslem cleric wanted in Egypt for terrorism. The Egyptians had been complaining for years that the United States was granting political asylum to terrorists, but American officials insisted the men were victims of religious persecution in Egypt.

The U.S. never completely agreed with the European attitude towards terrorists, and this made the United States a primary target of al Qaeda. The Islamic terrorists believed that their refuge in Europe would eventually be turned into a base for attacking their hosts. That was speeded up by the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and European support for the United States in the wake of the 2001 attacks. Many Europeans believe that if the United States had shown more restraint after 2001, the terrorist threat in Europe could have been much reduced. The European belief is that, while the invasion of Afghanistan angered many Moslems, the invasion of Iraq really enraged them.

In any event, as Islamic terrorists went active in Europe, there was a great burst of cooperation. European counter-terrorism agencies had long been asking for reforms. Mainly, these reforms consisted of three things;

- Arrest warrants for terrorists in another country that would be executed immediately, without interference, and delays, from local courts.

- Sharing of information on terrorists, to include tracking movements through different European countries.

- Coordination of efforts, which included an official who presided over a pan-European organization that had access to all (or at least most) terrorist information all nations possessed, and kept all European Union nations aware of what everyone else was up to.

These three actions made it much more difficult for Islamic terrorists to operate in Europe. Before, a terrorist could just cross a border, and effectively disappear from the police radar, but still be in Europe. The coordination effort also made it clear that Islamic terrorists were far more numerous and better organized than any European police or intelligence agency realized. For decades, it had been official policy in most European nations to let Moslem migrants do pretty much what they wanted, and to not even collect much information on what was going on inside those communities.

Despite the European intelligence agencies now realizing that they had a serious Islamic terror threat even before 2001, European politicians and media still cling to the old ideas that negotiation and understanding would have kept Europe safe, were it not for those reckless Americans. Politicians and journalists would rather invent new lies, to justify the old ones, than admit that they had made a mistake.

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all emphasis mine.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Gawain 0]

...and on 3/11, the terrorists "purchased" submission from Spain, effectively taking that block out anti-terrorism-cooperative. The UK is under a methodical assault now. Interesting that France has not been targeted, their NATO contribution in Afghanistan has not been insignificant. Aha, but they aren't in Iraq...I Iraq is pretty important after all.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[virgin-burner 1]

do you make all this shit up as you go along, or do you read it up specifically to annoy us!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[rushmc 23]

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do you make all this shit up as you go along, or do you read it up specifically to annoy us!?

the truth seems to be a bit painful???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[virgin-burner 1]

truth is, the american governement fucks with the whole world and thinks: "if we get away with this, what harm can happen to us?"

and then europeans are forced to dig through s-hhh-tuff like this..

but yea, go on, bomb countries, remove and install foreign countries governments as you like, i'm sure no-one will feel offended, no-one will think of ways to pay you, the people, back. as its usually the people that have to suffer through all this kind of shit..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[rushmc 23]

Quote

truth is, the american governement fucks with the whole world and thinks: "if we get away with this, what harm can happen to us?"

and then europeans are forced to dig through s-hhh-tuff like this..

but yea, go on, bomb countries, remove and install foreign countries governments as you like, i'm sure no-one will feel offended, no-one will think of ways to pay you, the people, back. as its usually the people that have to suffer through all this kind of shit..

Wow, I did not know it would hurt this bad

You should reconsider your perspective however.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[virgin-burner 1]

wanna hear a lie? WMD was one, and, the only reason to invade iraq. people are more suffering there now, than they were before the invasion. plus, you get an airplane full of dead bodies back to your country every night.

maybe you should reconsider your perspective, since you're at the source..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[mnealtx 0]

And I'm sure you have specific proof of Saddam's golden paradise before the coalition came in and fucked it all up...yes?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Quote

wanna hear a lie? WMD was one, and, the only reason to invade iraq. this statement here is a clear liepeople are more suffering there now,ah, did you ever review the numbers SH was killing yearly? than they were before the invasion. plus, you get an airplane full of dead bodies back to your country every night.sadly, freedom is not free and you might look up the numbers of US solders that died to keep you from having to learn german

maybe you should reconsider your perspective, since you're at the source..

I am clear on my position as I don't get my news from moveon.org and like sites

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[freethefly 6]

Quote

And I'm sure you have specific proof of Saddam's golden paradise before the coalition came in and fucked it all up...yes?

Well, before the U.S. decided to invade and show off its latest weapons to prove that the U.S. can still kill a huge number of people without remorse, Iraqis had water, electricity, schools, universities, hospitals, fuel, food, medicine, no car bombings, children playing outside. Pretty much the same as here in the U.S.. Sure, Saddam was not the nicest guy but, when you compare him to what our own secret police do, there is not much difference. Hell, the U.S. supplied him with much of what he needed to do what he did. At that time the U.S. did nothing and said nothing. Only now, as a way to instill fear, does the U.S. harp on what he did.
Face the facts. With 80% of Iraqis wishing that the U.S. would go away and never come back it's easy to see that the true criminal in this is the very administration that illegaly attacked and killed thousands based on a lie that was engineered to instill fear in Americans.
Iraq is a bloody sandbox created by war loving neo-cons bent on killing everyone who is not an American. They are far worst than Saddam ever was.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

And I'm sure you have specific proof of Saddam's golden paradise before the coalition came in and fucked it all up...yes?

Well, before the U.S. decided to invade and show off its latest weapons to prove that the U.S. can still kill a huge number of people without remorse, Iraqis had water, electricity, schools, universities, hospitals, fuel, food, medicine, no car bombings, children playing outside. Pretty much the same as here in the U.S.. Sure, Saddam was not the nicest guy but, when you compare him to what our own secret police do, there is not much difference.

This kind of nonsense just blows me away.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Sure, Saddam was not the nicest guy but, when you compare him to what our own secret police do, there is not much difference.

Yeah, you're gonna need direct proof of that one, too... I've yet to see acid baths, rape rooms or wood chippers at Gitmo.

Quote

Iraq is a bloody sandbox created by war loving neo-cons bent on killing everyone who is not an American. They are far worst than Saddam ever was.

Killing everyone that isn't American? To use a popular phrase: Bitch, please... and you're gonna need proof on that one, too, btw.... cuz I'm not buying your bullshit.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

And I'm sure you have specific proof of Saddam's golden paradise before the coalition came in and fucked it all up...yes?

Well, before the U.S. decided to invade and show off its latest weapons to prove that the U.S. can still kill a huge number of people without remorse, Iraqis had water, electricity, schools, universities, hospitals, fuel, food, medicine, no car bombings, children playing outside. Pretty much the same as here in the U.S.. Sure, Saddam was not the nicest guy but, when you compare him to what our own secret police do, there is not much difference.

This kind of nonsense just blows me away.

pretty much what i was going to say. not the nonsense part, but the one above..

well, ignorance is bliss, isnt it!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

truth is, the american governement fucks with the whole world and thinks: "if we get away with this, what harm can happen to us?"

and then europeans are forced to dig through s-hhh-tuff like this..

but yea, go on, bomb countries, remove and install foreign countries governments as you like, i'm sure no-one will feel offended, no-one will think of ways to pay you, the people, back. as its usually the people that have to suffer through all this kind of shit..

Wow, I did not know it would hurt this bad

You should reconsider your perspective however.

What's the matter with his perspective? Blunt and to the point? Yes. Wrong? No. Are you going to deny that the US imperially uses it's military and economic power to influence political and economic systems throughout the world in order to maintain its dominance?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

truth is, the american governement fucks with the whole world and thinks: "if we get away with this, what harm can happen to us?"

and then europeans are forced to dig through s-hhh-tuff like this..

but yea, go on, bomb countries, remove and install foreign countries governments as you like, i'm sure no-one will feel offended, no-one will think of ways to pay you, the people, back. as its usually the people that have to suffer through all this kind of shit..

Wow, I did not know it would hurt this bad

You should reconsider your perspective however.

What's the matter with his perspective? Blunt and to the point? Yes. Wrong? No. Are you going to deny that the US imperially uses it's military and economic power to influence political and economic systems throughout the world in order to maintain its dominance?

You are right. I am denying your (and his/her) assurtion. I think/believe you are wrong!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Deny that the US tries to create conditions that are in it's best interest? Nope...been happening for several hundred years now, not just the last six (contrary to popular liberal belief).

I'm also not fool enough to believe that the US is the ONLY nation that does it... they *ALL* do...or try to, anyway.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

Well, before the U.S. decided to invade and show off its latest weapons to prove that the U.S. can still kill a huge number of people without remorse, Iraqis had water, electricity, schools, universities, hospitals, fuel, food, medicine, no car bombings, children playing outside. Pretty much the same as here in the U.S.. Sure, Saddam was not the nicest guy but, when you compare him to what our own secret police do, there is not much difference.

This kind of nonsense just blows me away.

It's not complete nonsense, but it is a very good example of overstatement.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

Pretty much the same as here in the U.S..

I also objected to the invasion, but this part right here is bullshit.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

truth is, the american governement fucks with the whole world and thinks: "if we get away with this, what harm can happen to us?"

and then europeans are forced to dig through s-hhh-tuff like this..

but yea, go on, bomb countries, remove and install foreign countries governments as you like, i'm sure no-one will feel offended, no-one will think of ways to pay you, the people, back. as its usually the people that have to suffer through all this kind of shit..

Wow, I did not know it would hurt this bad

You should reconsider your perspective however.

What's the matter with his perspective? Blunt and to the point? Yes. Wrong? No. Are you going to deny that the US imperially uses it's military and economic power to influence political and economic systems throughout the world in order to maintain its dominance?

You are right. I am denying your (and his/her) assurtion. I think/believe you are wrong!!

and where's your proof for that then?

switzerland has never had any bombings, yet, we deliver solutions to problems, get people to talk to each other, do observing, have contingents here and there.. and, uhm, yea, our leaders dont pray to god with their staff.. are we no fundamentalists then?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[livendive 8]

Quote

...and on 3/11, the terrorists "purchased" submission from Spain, effectively taking that block out anti-terrorism-cooperative. The UK is under a methodical assault now. Interesting that France has not been targeted, their NATO contribution in Afghanistan has not been insignificant. Aha, but they aren't in Iraq...I Iraq is pretty important after all.

Iraq didn't become important until we invaded it. People don't get too worked up about a cop arresting a bank robber who's been caught with the loot in hand. People do get worked up when cops beat up an innocent party. Perhaps people respect the fact that France is both engaged in a justified action (Afghanistan) and uninvolved in an unjustified action (Iraq).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Deny that the US tries to create conditions that are in it's best interest? Nope...been happening for several hundred years now, not just the last six (contrary to popular liberal belief).

I'm also not fool enough to believe that the US is the ONLY nation that does it... they *ALL* do...or try to, anyway.

Right, but just because you're trying to optimize the scenario for your own benefit that doesn't mean that you should ignore the cost to the affected parties. It's how far we are willing to go to get what we want that's cause for debate. This administration is going too far in my opinion. I don't like killing people to make my commute more comfortable or to satisfy wealthy campaign donors or to make my religious zealot buddies happy.

[freethefly 6]

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

Oh, there is more than this. One only needs to do a small bit of research to see what the CIA has done to start wars, to create death squads and to install dictators that will be puppets for the federal government.
You seem to believe that the feds are nice people looking out for our well being.

Oh, and don't call me a bitch. I didn't call you a name. Show me the same respect.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

Does the name Dan Metrione ring any bells?
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Uruguay_KH.html
The man wrote the book on torture and loved doing it. The man was a monster.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Deny that the US tries to create conditions that are in it's best interest? Nope...been happening for several hundred years now, not just the last six (contrary to popular liberal belief).

I'm also not fool enough to believe that the US is the ONLY nation that does it... they *ALL* do...or try to, anyway.

Right, but just because you're trying to optimize the scenario for your own benefit that doesn't mean that you should ignore the cost to the affected parties. It's how far we are willing to go to get what we want that's cause for debate. This administration is going too far in my opinion. I don't like killing people to make my commute more comfortable or to satisfy wealthy campaign donors or to make my religious zealot buddies happy.

I guess Clinton left Osama alone so he could get the cut of the opium trade along with the Mena Mafia coke ring... equally as plausible as the bullshit reasoning I bolded, above.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Oh, and don't call me a bitch. I didn't call you a name. Show me the same respect.

Whenever someone is hysterical in the movies, they get slapped to snap them out of it... it was a reaction to the hysteria in your post, sorry.

"Liberalism Resurgent" - the site name says it all...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706