"Inventing New Lies About Terrorism" (Strategy Page)

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

ITsa ok... I dont mind you apologizing for such "quaint traditions" the truth is.. incidents of racial discrimination and abuse are still going on...

Those will always be present, everywhere in the world.

It's a far cry from the 50s and 60s when the police were part of it. The incidents of Mississippi Burning aren't the same as some drunken rednecks finding a lone guy and killing him.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

It's a far cry from the 50s and 60s when the police were part of it.

Uh there are NUMEROUS police departments in this country that follow their old traditions that are ingrained... LAPD comes to mind.. Ramparts in particular.

Other smaller departments have OTHER racial groups they like to harrass... such as around native american reservations... the good ole boys are alive and well.

[kallend 2,032]

Quote

Quote

It's a far cry from the 50s and 60s when the police were part of it.

Uh there are NUMEROUS police departments in this country that follow their old traditions that are ingrained... LAPD comes to mind.. Ramparts in particular.

Other smaller departments have OTHER racial groups they like to harrass... such as around native american reservations... the good ole boys are alive and well.

Chicago police successfully protected Jon Burge from prosecution for torturing confessions out of black suspects.

NYC's recent little problems include Abner Louima and Amadou Diallo.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

It's a far cry from the 50s and 60s when the police were part of it. The incidents of Mississippi Burning aren't the same as some drunken rednecks finding a lone guy and killing him.

To steal a line from Rage Against the Machine's song "Killing in the Name of".
"Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses"

Quote

Those will always be present, everywhere in the world.

Sadly, that will be forever true.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>The Nannystate is here to save us. Everyone knows that.

Indeed. The politics of fear are, sadly, dominating political discourse, and are present to a much greater degree today than we've seen in the past, with the possible exception of the late 1950's. Today, any attack upon our rights is defensible lest the terrorists win and kill you in your sleep. This angle actually has a solid scientific basis; the connections from our emotional systems to our cognitive systems are quite strong, and emotion can easily overwhelm our capacity to reason. "Where fear is present, reason cannot be" to quite an ancient philosopher.

I think Eisenhower said it best: "Any who act as if freedom's defenses are to be found in suppression and suspicion and fear confess a doctrine that is alien to America." I think it's time we abandoned the politics of fear and return to a more reasoned approach to the serious (but not catastrophic) issues that confront us.

And, of course, the libs just want everyone to have puppies and butterflies...

Quote

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve
the rights of ordinary Americans..."

Quote

When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans ... And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it. That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the public housing projects, about how we're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities.

Quote

The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people.

As I recall, it was a DEM president that said the above...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Guest]

Quote

I think it's time we abandoned the politics of fear and return to a more reasoned approach to the serious (but not catastrophic) issues that confront us.

A worthy sentiment, Bill, but it ignores the fact that the islamo-fascist whackos who are trying to kill us don't have reason in their lexicon, only blind hatred, madness, and bloody-mindedness that not only will not listen to reason, but left it behind centuries ago.

Reminds me of a section of the novel "Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson where the characters are about to encounter some bad guys. One of the characters says, "I'm sure they'll listen to reason".

A very brief firefight ensues, and the character who spoke the line opens up with a super-weapon that completely decimates the agressors.

"I told you they'd listen to reason!" says the character.

His weapon's name - "Reason".

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

I think it's time we abandoned the politics of fear and return to a more reasoned approach to the serious (but not catastrophic) issues that confront us.

A worthy sentiment, Bill, but it ignores the fact that the islamo-fascist whackos who are trying to kill us don't have reason in their lexicon, ...

That's a perfect example of the fear that we're talking about. They have reasons to want to attack us, and they have told us what they are. Ask Ron Paul if you don't believe me. He's the only one in Washington who seems to be able to admit it out loud.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I think it's time we abandoned the politics of fear and return to a more reasoned approach to the serious (but not catastrophic) issues that confront us.

A worthy sentiment, Bill, but it ignores the fact that the islamo-fascist whackos who are trying to kill us don't have reason in their lexicon, ...

That's a perfect example of the fear that we're talking about. They have reasons to want to attack us, and they have told us what they are. Ask Ron Paul if you don't believe me. He's the only one in Washington who seems to be able to admit it out loud.

the reseans are coming from a hyjacked religion, not anybodies actions.........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,032]

Quote

Quote

I think it's time we abandoned the politics of fear and return to a more reasoned approach to the serious (but not catastrophic) issues that confront us.

A worthy sentiment, Bill, but it ignores the fact that the islamo-fascist whackos who are trying to kill us don't have reason in their lexicon, only blind hatred, madness, and bloody-mindedness that not only will not listen to reason, but left it behind centuries ago.

Reminds me of a section of the novel "Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson where the characters are about to encounter some bad guys. One of the characters says, "I'm sure they'll listen to reason".

A very brief firefight ensues, and the character who spoke the line opens up with a super-weapon that completely decimates the agressors.

"I told you they'd listen to reason!" says the character.

His weapon's name - "Reason".

mh
.

Snow Crash - Good story!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

the reseans are coming from a hyjacked religion, not anybodies actions.........

That's the viewpoint that may make you feel better but it is disastrously incomplete.
Ron Paul's comments:

"Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us? They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East. I think Reagan was right: we don't understand the irrationality of Middle-Eastern politics. So right now, we're building an embassy in Iraq that's bigger than the Vatican, we're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting. We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us........
...I believe very sincerely that the CIA is correct when they teach and talk about blowback. When we went into Iran in 1953 and installed the Shah, yes, there was blowback. The reaction to that was the taking of our hostages. And that persists. And if we ignore that, we ignore that at our own risk. If we think that we can do what we want around the world and not incite hatred, then we have a problem. They don't come here to attack us because we're rich and we're free. They come and they attack us because we're over there. I mean, what would we think if other foreign countries were doing that to us?"

[Guest]

Quote

That's a perfect example of the fear that we're talking about. They have reasons to want to attack us, and they have told us what they are.

No, they don't. "Reason" implies logic.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

the reseans are coming from a hyjacked religion, not anybodies actions.........

That's the viewpoint that may make you feel better but it is disastrously incomplete.
Ron Paul's comments:

"Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us? They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East. I think Reagan was right: we don't understand the irrationality of Middle-Eastern politics. So right now, we're building an embassy in Iraq that's bigger than the Vatican, we're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting. We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us........
...I believe very sincerely that the CIA is correct when they teach and talk about blowback. When we went into Iran in 1953 and installed the Shah, yes, there was blowback. The reaction to that was the taking of our hostages. And that persists. And if we ignore that, we ignore that at our own risk. If we think that we can do what we want around the world and not incite hatred, then we have a problem. They don't come here to attack us because we're rich and we're free. They come and they attack us because we're over there. I mean, what would we think if other foreign countries were doing that to us?"

I do not agree with him. While the points he makes may have some insignificant impact on some one need only read what the Imams are saying, writing and teaching to understand thier intent. Which is believe, follow or die!. The other claims such as those made by Paul and others distract us from the real reasons.

As far as the do what we want around the world is the hate and blame America first talking point. Don't waste your breath with that one on me.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

That's a perfect example of the fear that we're talking about. They have reasons to want to attack us, and they have told us what they are.

No, they don't. "Reason" implies logic.

mh
.

And mental mechanisms like dehumanization make killing and oppression easier to justify.

[SpeedRacer 1]

The old "america hater" line again.

Has it occurred to you that if someone loves America, they're going to be pissed off when certain members of our government drags America's name through the mud?

Imperialism and global hegemony is not what America is supposed to be about.

We don't tolerate it from other countries, why would they tolerate it from us? Hell, we raised a huge fuss about the UAE controlling those ports last year. Those were just ports, imagine if one of those countries wanted to put large armies in or near American soil.


"do unto others as you would have them do unto you." something to think about.

If someone attacks us, our response should be focused specifically on the attacker.

Many people on different sides have noted that this is a war of ideology. Let's stop handing the enemy ideological victories by starting irrelevant wars, thereby feeding the islamo-fascist propaganda machine.

Remain FOCUSED SPECIFICALLY ON THE ATTACKERS.

Maybe if we had done that we would have finished the job in Afghanistan, more of the world would be united with us against terrorists, and the USA would not be in the toilet diplomatically.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

Quote

That's a perfect example of the fear that we're talking about. They have reasons to want to attack us, and they have told us what they are.

No, they don't. "Reason" implies logic.

mh
.

And mental mechanisms like dehumanization make killing and oppression easier to justify.

Wait until some of your loved ones are their victims.

I can assure you you will feel differently.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Wait until some of your loved ones are their victims.

I can assure you you will feel differently.

mh
.

I don't have any problem retaliating against people who do me or my family harm. I do have a problem retaliating against people who simply look like the people who did me harm.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

I do not agree with him. While the points he makes may have some insignificant impact on some one need only read what the Imams are saying, writing and teaching to understand thier intent. Which is believe, follow or die!. The other claims such as those made by Paul and others distract us from the real reasons.

....

Your programming is complete. Dear benevolent and loving God, please bless this warrior so that he might send someone to smash his enemies to tiny bits, at thy mercy, and to give him the strength to vote for whichever pro-war candidate that prophet Limbaugh doth deem fit for endorsement. Amen.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

The old "america hater" line again.

Has it occurred to you that if someone loves America, they're going to be pissed off when certain members of our government drags America's name through the mud?

Imperialism and global hegemony is not what America is supposed to be about.

We don't tolerate it from other countries, why would they tolerate it from us? Hell, we raised a huge fuss about the UAE controlling those ports last year. Those were just ports, imagine if one of those countries wanted to put large armies in or near American soil.


"do unto others as you would have them do unto you." something to think about.

If someone attacks us, our response should be focused specifically on the attacker.

Many people on different sides have noted that this is a war of ideology. Let's stop handing the enemy ideological victories by starting irrelevant wars, thereby feeding the islamo-fascist propaganda machine.

Remain FOCUSED SPECIFICALLY ON THE ATTACKERS.

Maybe if we had done that we would have finished the job in Afghanistan, more of the world would be united with us against terrorists, and the USA would not be in the toilet diplomatically.

Thankfully we have a leader that continues to do the right thing despite the media, the left and the polls

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

I do not agree with him. While the points he makes may have some insignificant impact on some one need only read what the Imams are saying, writing and teaching to understand thier intent. Which is believe, follow or die!. The other claims such as those made by Paul and others distract us from the real reasons.

....

Your programming is complete. Dear benevolent and loving God, please bless this warrior so that he might send someone to smash his enemies to tiny bits, at thy mercy, and to give him the strength to vote for whichever pro-war candidate that prophet Limbaugh doth deem fit for endorsement. Amen.

Wow, are we not insulting today. And just because someone does not agree with your self proclaimed correctness

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

Thankfully we have a leader that continues to do the right thing despite the media, the left and the polls

continues to do the right thing? um,, this leader you're mentioning, are you talking about President George W. Bush, or some other leader?

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

I do not agree with him. While the points he makes may have some insignificant impact on some one need only read what the Imams are saying, writing and teaching to understand thier intent. Which is believe, follow or die!. The other claims such as those made by Paul and others distract us from the real reasons.

....

Your programming is complete. Dear benevolent and loving God, please bless this warrior so that he might send someone to smash his enemies to tiny bits, at thy mercy, and to give him the strength to vote for whichever pro-war candidate that prophet Limbaugh doth deem fit for endorsement. Amen.

You're usually much more objective. Mocking those who point out the intolerance of (more than just a fringe group of) Muslims, smacks of ignorance.

[Royd 0]

Quote

People don't get too worked up about a cop arresting a bank robber who's been caught with the loot in hand. People do get worked up when cops beat up an innocent party.

Saddam was already on probation and refused to obey his probation officer. Unlike Lindsey Lohan, his ankle bracelet wasn't voluntary.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I do not agree with him. While the points he makes may have some insignificant impact on some one need only read what the Imams are saying, writing and teaching to understand thier intent. Which is believe, follow or die!. The other claims such as those made by Paul and others distract us from the real reasons.

....

Your programming is complete. Dear benevolent and loving God, please bless this warrior so that he might send someone to smash his enemies to tiny bits, at thy mercy, and to give him the strength to vote for whichever pro-war candidate that prophet Limbaugh doth deem fit for endorsement. Amen.

Wow, are we not insulting today. And just because someone does not agree with your self proclaimed correctness

It was your dismissal of Paul's quotes as "insignificant" and that those ideas are trying to "distract us from the REAL reasons" that put me into mock mode. Just try answering the question that Ron Paul asked. What would you do if China was building bases, bombing us and occupying our cities?

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

People don't get too worked up about a cop arresting a bank robber who's been caught with the loot in hand. People do get worked up when cops beat up an innocent party.

Saddam was already on probation and refused to obey his probation officer. Unlike Lindsey Lohan, his ankle bracelet wasn't voluntary.

So we invaded Iraq to depose Saddam in order to reduce terrorism in Europe?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I do not agree with him. While the points he makes may have some insignificant impact on some one need only read what the Imams are saying, writing and teaching to understand thier intent. Which is believe, follow or die!. The other claims such as those made by Paul and others distract us from the real reasons.

....

Your programming is complete. Dear benevolent and loving God, please bless this warrior so that he might send someone to smash his enemies to tiny bits, at thy mercy, and to give him the strength to vote for whichever pro-war candidate that prophet Limbaugh doth deem fit for endorsement. Amen.

You're usually much more objective. Mocking those who point out the intolerance of (more than just a fringe group of) Muslims, smacks of ignorance.

I've tried respectful, objective dialog, and I'm sure that I'll do it again. But what is it that they say is the definition of insanity, doing exactly the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? Plus, this is SC and every once in a while each one of us succumbs to the temptation to flame. Doing it without getting banned is the trick.