pop 0 #51 July 25, 2007 QuoteQuote>The official story is that the pilot overstressed the airframe by vigorously > operating the rudder in response to wake turbulence. The end result was > structural failure. The vertical stabilizer and rudder fell off, causing the > crash. Right. In this case we have terrorists vigorously yanking the yoke around and rolling the aircraft inverted, thus rapidly exceeding both Vne and G-loading limits. The end result was likely structural failure. I thought I read that the cockpit voice recordings had no evidence of a struggle? The recording of the flight attendant talking showed her very calm...considering that the aircraft rolloing around inverted, thus rapidly exceeding both Vne and G-loading limits.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #52 July 25, 2007 >I thought I read that the cockpit voice recordings had no evidence of a struggle? From the 9/11 commission's report: --------------------------------------- At 9:57, the passenger assault began. Several passengers had terminated phone calls with loved ones in order to join the revolt. One of the callers ended her message as follows: "Everyone's running up to first class. I've got to go. Bye." The cockpit voice recorder captured the sounds of the passenger assault muffled by the intervening cockpit door. Some family members who listened to the recording report that they can hear the voice of a loved one among the din. We cannot identify whose voices can be heard. But the assault was sustained. In response, Jarrah immediately began to roll the airplane to the left and right, attempting to knock the passengers off balance. At 9:58:57, Jarrah told another hijacker in the cockpit to block the door. Jarrah continued to roll the airplane sharply left and right, but the assault continued. At 9:59:52, Jarrah changed tactics and pitched the nose of the airplane up and down to disrupt the assault. The recorder captured the sounds of loud thumps, crashes, shouts, and breaking glasses and plates. At 10:00:03, Jarrah stabilized the airplane.87 Five seconds later, Jarrah asked, "Is that it? Shall we finish it off?" A hijacker responded, "No. Not yet. When they all come, we finish it off." The sounds of fighting continued outside the cockpit. Again, Jarrah pitched the nose of the aircraft up and down. At 10:00:26, a passenger in the background said, "In the cockpit. If we don't we'll die!" Sixteen seconds later, a passenger yelled, "Roll it!" Jarrah stopped the violent maneuvers at about 10:01:00 and said, "Allah is the greatest! Allah is the greatest!" He then asked another hijacker in the cock-pit, "Is that it? I mean, shall we put it down?" to which the other replied, "Yes, put it in it, and pull it down." The passengers continued their assault and at 10:02:23, a hijacker said, "Pull it down! Pull it down!" The hijackers remained at the controls but must have judged that the passengers were only seconds from overcoming them. The airplane headed down; the control wheel was turned hard to the right. The airplane rolled onto its back, and one of the hijackers began shouting "Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest." ------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #53 July 25, 2007 QuoteHaving only watched a part of the video (and frankly, not really buying into the conspiracy); I do have a question: What would the point be of landing the plane in Ohio and keeping it quiet? Why bother; what purpose would it/does it serve? Anybody? Anybody?"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 July 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteHaving only watched a part of the video (and frankly, not really buying into the conspiracy); I do have a question: What would the point be of landing the plane in Ohio and keeping it quiet? Why bother; what purpose would it/does it serve? Anybody? Anybody? Well, this conspiracy bulls, I mean, hidden truth, doesn't work very well without this step, so here we are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #55 July 25, 2007 QuoteThere was a baggage compartment door found in the secondary debris field? Where does that information show up? Were parts from the cabin floor found there as well? If not, how could human remains be in the secondary debris field? I didn't say that a baggage door was found there. I was giving an example of how a secondary debris field could be created, six miles from the point of impact. I don't know exactly how that happened, and neither do you, apparently. Please describe in detail the nature of these "human remains". You may be making more of this than there is. Could it have been a piece of steak from the kitchen? A piece of meat from a pet dog traveling in the baggage hold? You need a more specific description. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #56 July 25, 2007 QuoteFeel free to make up conspiracy theories every time something happens which you don't understand. Such as God/Buddah/Allah/Zeus/FSM? If I could figure out a way to get a gun in there, I would have the SC trifecta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #57 July 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteFeel free to make up conspiracy theories every time something happens which you don't understand. Such as God/Buddah/Allah/Zeus/FSM? If I could figure out a way to get a gun in there, I would have the SC trifecta. You may have that, but I bet you anything you can't slip RSL's into the mix!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm951 0 #58 July 25, 2007 I find it amazing that the same crowd who lampoons Bush as being stupid and inept, can accuse him of a cover up of an inside job with 4 planes, thousands dead, and major landmark buildings destroyed. Which is it? Evil genius or bumbling frat boy? Can't have it both ways guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #59 July 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteFeel free to make up conspiracy theories every time something happens which you don't understand. Such as God/Buddah/Allah/Zeus/FSM? If I could figure out a way to get a gun in there, I would have the SC trifecta. You may have that, but I bet you anything you can't slip RSL's into the mix! I am humbled. Let us not also forget AAD's. Maybel I'll try to land a wingsuit as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #60 July 27, 2007 Debunking The 9/11 Myths Pages 7 & 8 deal with Flight 93 conspiracy theories. Example, quote: CLAIM: "Residents and workers at businesses outside Shanksville, Somerset County, reported discovering clothing, books, papers and what appeared to be human remains," states a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article dated Sept. 13, 2001. "Others reported what appeared to be crash debris floating in Indian Lake, nearly 6 miles from the immediate crash scene." Commenting on reports that Indian Lake residents collected debris, Think AndAsk.com speculates: "On Sept. 10, 2001, a strong cold front pushed through the area, and behind it--winds blew northerly. Since Flight 93 crashed west-southwest of Indian Lake, it was impossible for debris to fly perpendicular to wind direction. ... The FBI lied." And the significance of widespread debris? Theorists claim the plane was breaking up before it crashed. TheForbiddenKnowledge.com states bluntly: "Without a doubt, Flight 93 was shot down." FACT: Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater--not 6 miles--easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest--toward Indian Lake. End quote. Darn, another perfectly good conspiracy theory shot to heck by facts. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #61 July 27, 2007 Forbidden Knowledge shot down once again by Fabulous Facts. A Fun Folly to be sure. Time to go back to my Fabulous Furry Freak Bros comic book; where Fat Freddie's Feline is about to Fornicate & Felate. People who say WTF really do have a lot of options." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #62 August 2, 2007 Quote Debunking The 9/11 Myths Pages 7 & 8 deal with Flight 93 conspiracy theories. Example, quote: CLAIM: "Residents and workers at businesses outside Shanksville, Somerset County, reported discovering clothing, books, papers and what appeared to be human remains," states a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article dated Sept. 13, 2001. "Others reported what appeared to be crash debris floating in Indian Lake, nearly 6 miles from the immediate crash scene." Commenting on reports that Indian Lake residents collected debris, Think AndAsk.com speculates: "On Sept. 10, 2001, a strong cold front pushed through the area, and behind it--winds blew northerly. Since Flight 93 crashed west-southwest of Indian Lake, it was impossible for debris to fly perpendicular to wind direction. ... The FBI lied." And the significance of widespread debris? Theorists claim the plane was breaking up before it crashed. TheForbiddenKnowledge.com states bluntly: "Without a doubt, Flight 93 was shot down." FACT: Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater--not 6 miles--easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest--toward Indian Lake. End quote. Darn, another perfectly good conspiracy theory shot to heck by facts. Don't you just hate it when that happens? NOPE! what it means is popular mechinacs is in on the conspiracy too!!!! thats the beautiful thing about conspiracies... they can be constantly changed to deny facts MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #63 August 2, 2007 Quote NOPE! what it means is popular mechinacs is in on the conspiracy too!!!! thats the beautiful thing about conspiracies... they can be constantly changed to deny facts It's funny how that posting just shut down all the conspiracy folks so suddenly, and everything got so quiet in here. It should be easy enough to pick up a map and verify how far it is from the crash site to Indian Lake where the other debris was found. You can probably do it on the internet. If the distance ain't six miles, then the conspiracy folks were told lies. And it's funny how quickly they jump to believe such things, without bothering to do any research of their own to check the facts. Some people's brains are just wired to believe anything anti-establishment like that. Go figure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #64 August 2, 2007 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sueAQB3fjqo This could possibly explain why there was no wreckage at the crash site. "Planet Conspiron to Planet Earth. Planet Conspiron to Planet Earth." "Planet Earth here, go on Planet Conspiron." "We have a really good one for you this time. Tell them that John Kennedy was on the plane. Him and Jim Morrison, who are not really dead, were recruited to head up the New World Order. Leak it out slowly. That should blow their brain fuses." "We read you, loud and clear, Planet Conspiron. The nut jobs will have a field day with this one!" "Planet Comspiron, out." "Planet Earth, out.""...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeadCone 0 #65 August 2, 2007 Flight 93 Crash Site: 40° 3' 1.47" N 78° 54' 16.43" W Distance and relationship to Indian Lake in attached photo (measured via Google Earth). --Head-- Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety! http://www.citizensunitednegatingtechnology.org/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #66 August 2, 2007 QuoteFlight 93 Crash Site: 40° 3' 1.47" N 78° 54' 16.43" W Distance and relationship to Indian Lake in attached photo (measured via Google Earth). I can't make out the print on your photo attachment. So what's your verdict on the distance to Indian Lake? And I note that Indian Lake seems to be a horseshoe shape, and your pointer goes to the island in the middle of the horseshoe. So the measured distance could depend upon which part of the lake you point at, like the near side or the far side. Here's a Topozone map view. Correlating that map to your aerial photo, and using the scale ruler at the bottom, it looks like 1.5 miles to the nearest part of Indian Lake, and about 3 miles to the far outside shore. So, Popular Mechanics is correct, and the conspiracy theorists are waaay off with their 6-mile number. Maybe one of those fellows drove six miles to get to Indian Lake on the winding roads around to the other side, and never bothered to think that wind blows debris in a straight line, not following roads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeadCone 0 #67 August 3, 2007 The length of the line is 2.00 miles. Indian Lake was apparently created by damming and flooding a valley. Therefore, it's an irregular shape. Your 1.5 and 3.0 estimates jive with what I get: At the very tippy closest, I can get 1.5 miles. At the very tippy furthest, I can get 2.85 miles. To the very immediate south is another dammed lake called Lake Stonycreek. At the very tippy nearest of that lake, I can get 2.1 miles. At the very tippy furthest (which extends into the the poor quality imagery), I can get 3.8 miles. Nearest other lakes: Quemahoning Reservior: 8 miles to the North. Lake Somerset: 8.5 miles to the East. Shawnee Lake: 14 miles to the West. --Head-- Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety! http://www.citizensunitednegatingtechnology.org/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
