Flight 93 Landed in Ohio?

[rushmc 23]

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Read my link. It IS odd that debris was 6 miles away. This should not hapen in a standard crash, but seems to indicate that for one reason or anohter, the plane at least partially broke up in the air.

That may be possible depending on the speed reached before impact. Edited to add; not from the crash but from break up because of exessive speed

Absolutely. But I would not rule out it having been shot down to save lives overall. And to keep it under wraps in the wake of a huge tragedy like 9/11 would not be out of the question, and even understandable.

If it was shot down, I feel sorry for the pilot who had to pull the trigger. Either way, the tragedy is the same.

I agree totally. I do think it would be dam near impossible to keep shooting down an airliner over US soil secret but one never knows

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[nanook 1]

Horrible reporting. It is a case of two different reports on the same incident. One report is from news sources that bungled up the facts; the other report, from a collection of "Anomynous" emailers. Definitely less credible than an National Enquirer.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Zipp0 1]

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Read my link. It IS odd that debris was 6 miles away. This should not hapen in a standard crash, but seems to indicate that for one reason or anohter, the plane at least partially broke up in the air.

That may be possible depending on the speed reached before impact. Edited to add; not from the crash but from break up because of exessive speed

Absolutely. But I would not rule out it having been shot down to save lives overall. And to keep it under wraps in the wake of a huge tragedy like 9/11 would not be out of the question, and even understandable.

If it was shot down, I feel sorry for the pilot who had to pull the trigger. Either way, the tragedy is the same.

I agree totally. I do think it would be dam near impossible to keep shooting down an airliner over US soil secret but one never knows

All of the pilots have at least a Secret, as do the air traffic controllers. Despite all of the stuff that makes its way to the media, lots of things manage to stay under wraps.

Personally, at this point I think most Americans would understand why a plane headed for the US Capitol was shot down. If it is a secret, it doesn't need to be for much longer. Also, I think revealing it, if true, would make us safer. The terrorists would see how serious we are about stopping them.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Shotgun 1]

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Personally, at this point I think most Americans would understand why a plane headed for the US Capitol was shot down. If it is a secret, it doesn't need to be for much longer. Also, I think revealing it, if true, would make us safer. The terrorists would see how serious we are about stopping them.

I agree that most Americans would understand. But as for making us safer, I don't know about that... To find out that our military had to kill our own citizens in order to stop the terrorists (even though they were obviously going to be killed anyway), I think that would only serve to instill more fear in our country (which would probably be seen as a victory for the terrorists).

I don't know... My first thought that day, after seeing the news of this plane going down, was, "Wow, we had to shoot one of our own civilian planes down." Not that my intuition means anything... And if that was the case, I find it hard to believe that it could still be kept a secret after this many years.

[mnealtx 0]

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I find it hard to believe that it could still be kept a secret after this many years.

Absolutely - the NYT has no problems with leaking classified info, you think they WOULDN'T have gotten hold of this and ran it by now, if it were true?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[funjumper101 15]

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Do you honestly believe that clothing, books, and human remains could drift six miles from the point of impact, bypassing all of the area between?

Where did any report say there was nothing in between?

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I don't.

Are you NTSB?

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Was the wind blowing the correct direction that day to support your theory? Interesting question.

My theory? I'm not the one coming up with this BS.

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Feel free to believe everything the government tells you.

And you can feel free to believe what every twit with a computer puts up a video on You Tube as the truth. They never conclude anything. All they do is ask questions with so many open ends it would take hours to comment on them. Like when they said the plane landed in CLE. They said 200 people got off the United. Really? So you mean to tell me they have kept 200 people silent this entire time and nobody has gone to the press? Not even somebody with the airline? Ground Personal? You just go on believing that United 93 got shot down. I need a good laugh reading peoples theory on how it all happened.

You appear to have a problem with reading comprehension. Please go back and read my posts again. If you need to, take some notes.

A short recap here -

I never watched the video on Youtube. That means that I have no idea as to what the content is, other than what you have written. I have not in any way defended the content of the video or any of the conclusions that may have been presented in it. Your conclusions like "So you mean to tell me they have kept 200 people silent this entire time and nobody has gone to the press?" are wildly inaccurate.

The posted news report makes no mention of a six mile debris field that stretches downwind from the impact site. If that was the case, the report would say so. It does mention a debris field that was almost six miles from the impact site. This secondary debris field matches other news reports that came out at the time. An inconvenient truth, but the truth, regardless of how you feel. None of the other news reports said anything about a six mile long field of debris, either. There were two seperate debris fields.

On the basis of what you wrote, I must conclude that you believe that it is true that books, clothing, and human remains could travel almost six miles from the impact site, while nothing landed in the area between.

In this case, I believe that it is NOT possible for that to happen. It appears that we have different opinions as to how the facts can be explained. I am not going to change my mind, just from reading your repetition of the official story.

If you care to research the wind direction and speeds in the Shanksville area that day, including the uppers, and post that data here, go for it. That might alter my thinking a bit.

[Zipp0 1]

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I find it hard to believe that it could still be kept a secret after this many years.

Absolutely - the NYT has no problems with leaking classified info, you think they WOULDN'T have gotten hold of this and ran it by now, if it were true?

Nope. If they DO know, but have a very good reason to sit on the story, they would. They sat on the wiretapping story for quite a while at the request of the Pentagon.

Don't assume that because some things have been leaked that all secrets come out into the open.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[tkhayes 348]

and it is totally possible that a jet, doing high-G acrobatic maneuvers while being overtaken by hostages could come apart or at least lose parts of it during these maneuvers.

Which explains any parts found 6 miles away.

drop it, it sickens me that anyone one can look at a wreckage and say that it was not a wreckage. How many people would have to be involved to create such a conspiracy? Do you think the farmer that owned the pand was in on it too? How about all the locals cops and fire-rescue that responded. And the guy that happened to be driving by when it happened? And the ATC guys who recorded and saw the flight path on dozens, perhaps hundreds of ATC screens all at the same time, but at dozens of different ATC Centers?

have some common sense.

TK

[JohnnyD 0]

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I find it hard to believe that it could still be kept a secret after this many years.

Absolutely - the NYT has no problems with leaking classified info, you think they WOULDN'T have gotten hold of this and ran it by now, if it were true?

The NYT reports, they don't leak. Fix the problem, not the messenger.

[Zipp0 1]

I never said it was a conspiracy. I merely accept that it is within the realm of possibility that it was shot down, and if it was, it was probably done to save lives.

I don't believe either way at this point - which doesn't really matter. It is over. If it eventually comes to light that it was shot down, nothing will change. The deaths are still on the hands of the terrorists.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 2,990]

>There were two seperate debris fields. . . .I believe that it is NOT possible for that to happen.

It happened during the crashes of TWA flight 800, American Airlines 232 in Sioux City, American Airlines 191 in O'Hare, JAL flight 123, AA flight 587 and many others. In the JAL example, one debris field (the vertical stabilizer and some human remains) was found nearly 100 miles from the large debris field.

[TypicalFish 0]

Having only watched a part of the video (and frankly, not really buying into the conspiracy); I do have a question: What would the point be of landing the plane in Ohio and keeping it quiet? Why bother; what purpose would it/does it serve?

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[JohnRich 4]

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According to the official version of the crash of flight 93, the passengers tried to take back the airplane and failed. During the struggle the airplane was forced to crash by the hijackers.

When the news reports came out about the scattered debris and remains, it was clear to me that some kind of a major disconnect was occuring. There is no way that debis and remains would have ended up SIX MILES from the crater, unless catastrophic damage had occurred well prior to impact.

Define "well prior" to impact.

Such a plane diving toward the ground could be traveling at 600 mph. That's 10 miles per minute. Thus, a 6-mile debris dispersion represents only 36 seconds of flight time at that speed. At that doesn't even factor in how far things might blow in the wind.

Oh well, feel free to ignore logic like this, as it will screw up your dandy little conspiracy theory.

[pop 0]

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Read my link. It IS odd that debris was 6 miles away. This should not hapen in a standard crash, but seems to indicate that for one reason or anohter, the plane at least partially broke up in the air.

That happens when a plane is shut down in mid air. If you know that the previous 3 planes hit buildings, and you know the 4th one is onthe way to do more damage, its better to shut it down to minimize loss of lives. Flight 93 was shut down!

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[JohnRich 4]

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Do you honestly believe that clothing, books, and human remains could drift six miles from the point of impact, bypassing all of the area between?

Yes, if something like a baggage hold compartment popped open under enormous G-stress and dumped it's contents in mid-air.

Isn't it amazing how such a simple explanation can destroy such a beautiful conspiracy theory?

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Feel free to believe everything the government tells you.

Feel free to make up conspiracy theories every time something happens which you don't understand.

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Feel free to believe everything the government tells you.

Feel free to make up conspiracies every time something happens which you don't understand.

[billvon 2,990]

>That happens when a plane is shut down in mid air.

And when an aircraft is overstressed (say by a terrorist trying to crash it) and it begins disintegrating. It also happens when a rear bulkhead blows due to a poor repair, when an engine has an uncontained failure, when a fuel tank blows etc.

About six months ago our Skyvan had an uncontained engine failure; lost a bunch of engine parts over Elsinore, but managed to make it back to Perris (over six miles away!) You figure someone "shut down" our skyvan in midair?

[pop 0]

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>That happens when a plane is shut down in mid air.

And when an aircraft is overstressed (say by a terrorist trying to crash it) and it begins disintegrating. It also happens when a rear bulkhead blows due to a poor repair, when an engine has an uncontained failure, when a fuel tank blows etc.

About six months ago our Skyvan had an uncontained engine failure; lost a bunch of engine parts over Elsinore, but managed to make it back to Perris (over six miles away!) You figure someone "shut down" our skyvan in midair?

I am guessing it was a plot by the Jewish skydivers of Elsinore trying to get more of the Perris business.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[JohnRich 4]

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About six months ago our Skyvan had an uncontained engine failure; lost a bunch of engine parts over Elsinore, but managed to make it back to Perris (over six miles away!) You figure someone "shut down" our skyvan in midair?

Oh my gosh! I'll bet that someone on the Elsinore Skyvan was about to spill the true story about Flight 93, and the government was trying to crash the plane to silence him! None of us are safe! Run for your lives!

[funjumper101 15]

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>There were two seperate debris fields. . . .I believe that it is NOT possible for that to happen.

It happened during the crashes of TWA flight 800, American Airlines 232 in Sioux City, American Airlines 191 in O'Hare, JAL flight 123, AA flight 587 and many others. In the JAL example, one debris field (the vertical stabilizer and some human remains) was found nearly 100 miles from the large debris field.

TWA Flight 800 went down due to an in flight explosion of the center fuel tank. The explosion seperated the nose section from the rest of the airframe.

AAL 232 was a DC10 that experienced uncontained failure of the engine in the tail. In flight explosion? pretty close. It pretty much shot itself down with shrapnel. Go see Al Haynes's presentation on this one. I did. Very impressive.

JAL Flight 123 went down due to structural blowout of the pressure vessel. The failure was due to substandard repairs. The blowout blew the vertical stabilizer off the plane. The pilots tried to maintain control and did so for a while, then lost it. An in flight explosion? Almost.

AAL 587 - The official story is that the pilot overstressed the airframe by vigorously operating the rudder in response to wake turbulence. The end result was structural failure. The vertical stabilizer and rudder fell off, causing the crash.

Each of these events produced debris fields far from the final impact site.

I should have written "In this case, I believe that it is NOT possible for that to happen." I'll go edit the original post.

Nice catch, Bill.

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>There were two seperate debris fields. . . .I believe that it is NOT possible for that to happen.

It happened during the crashes of TWA flight 800, American Airlines 232 in Sioux City, American Airlines 191 in O'Hare, JAL flight 123, AA flight 587 and many others. In the JAL example, one debris field (the vertical stabilizer and some human remains) was found nearly 100 miles from the large debris field.

TWA Flight 800 went down due to an in flight explosion of the center fuel tank. The explosion seperated the nose section from the rest of the airframe.

AAL 232 was a DC10 that experienced uncontained failure of the engine in the tail. In flight explosion? pretty close. It pretty much shot itself down with shrapnel. Go see Al Haynes's presentation on this one. I did. Very impressive.

JAL Flight 123 went down due to structural blowout of the pressure vessel. The failure was due to substandard repairs. The blowout blew the vertical stabilizer off the plane. The pilots tried to maintain control and did so for a while, then lost it. An in flight explosion? Almost.

AAL 587 - The official story is that the pilot overstressed the airframe by vigorously operating the rudder in response to wake turbulence. The end result was structural failure. The vertical stabilizer and rudder fell off, causing the crash.

Each of these events produced debris fields far from the final impact site.

I should have written "In this case, I believe that it is NOT possible for that to happen." I'll go edit the original post.

Nice catch, Bill.

So then my theory could be correct. Flight 93 was shut down mid air. That would explain how the debris spread all over the place.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[funjumper101 15]

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Do you honestly believe that clothing, books, and human remains could drift six miles from the point of impact, bypassing all of the area between?

Yes, if something like a baggage hold compartment popped open under enormous G-stress and dumped it's contents in mid-air.

Isn't it amazing how such a simple explanation can destroy such a beautiful conspiracy theory?

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Feel free to believe everything the government tells you.

Feel free to make up conspiracy theories every time something happens which you don't understand.

There was a baggage compartment door found in the secondary debris field?

Where does that information show up?

Were parts from the cabin floor found there as well?

If not, how could human remains be in the secondary debris field?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Such a plane diving toward the ground could be traveling at 600 mph. That's 10 miles per minute. Thus, a 6-mile debris dispersion represents only 36 seconds of flight time at that speed. At that doesn't even factor in how far things might blow in the wind.

One correction - if it's diving towards the ground to get that speed, the horizonal component is significantly less than 600mph.

[billvon 2,990]

>The official story is that the pilot overstressed the airframe by vigorously
> operating the rudder in response to wake turbulence. The end result was
> structural failure. The vertical stabilizer and rudder fell off, causing the
> crash.

Right. In this case we have terrorists vigorously yanking the yoke around and rolling the aircraft inverted, thus rapidly exceeding both Vne and G-loading limits. The end result was likely structural failure.

[Zipp0 1]

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>The official story is that the pilot overstressed the airframe by vigorously
> operating the rudder in response to wake turbulence. The end result was
> structural failure. The vertical stabilizer and rudder fell off, causing the
> crash.

Right. In this case we have terrorists vigorously yanking the yoke around and rolling the aircraft inverted, thus rapidly exceeding both Vne and G-loading limits. The end result was likely structural failure.

I thought I read that the cockpit voice recordings had no evidence of a struggle?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.