Bloomberg/New York City: "Guns = Prison"

[JohnRich 4]

Two news stories from New York City:

Story 1:

Mayor Pushes Anti-Illegal Gun Campaign

Mayor Bloomberg unveiled a new “Guns = Prison” public service advertising campaign. The new public service campaign calls attention to the mandatory 3½-year prison sentence given to anyone caught carrying an illegal loaded handgun...

Source: Daily Eagle

Story 2:

Rappers Ja Rule, Lil Wayne arrested in NYC

Ja Rule and Lil Wayne have been arrested and charged with criminal possession of a weapon in separate incidents, police said. The best-selling rappers were arrested Sunday night shortly after Lil Wayne's concert...

Source: Newsday

Well, Mayor, there you have it - your first test case from which to set an example with your new law. According to your speeches, these two rappers should serve a mandatory 3.5 years in prison for having a gun in their possession, no questions asked, do not pass "go" - go straight to jail.

Will you enforce the law as advertised? Or will you buckle under because these are famous celebrities, and make an exception for the sake of fame and racial harmony?

For the poll question: Do you think that a mandatory 3.5 year prison sentence, regardless of circumstances, and without judicial discretion, is a good idea?

[Zipp0 1]

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regardless of circumstances, and without judicial discretion,

Never a good idea.

Although, as a person who underwent the background check process and paid the proper fees to get a carry permit, I think very harsh punishment is a good idea. The more good guys that carry, and the fewer bad guys, the better off we will be.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[beowulf 1]

I would be ok with that, as long as they also enacted a CCW law allowing people to legally carry concealed weapons and anyone caught illegally carrying a weapon would go to prison for 3 and half years.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I would be ok with that, as long as they also enacted a CCW law allowing people to legally carry concealed weapons and anyone caught illegally carrying a weapon would go to prison for 3 and half years.

This is NYC - you're not allowed to own a handgun at home, nevermind carry concealed in public. So those who do it either have bad intent, or have considerable fear for their safety to risk this penalty.

[beowulf 1]

Really?! I didn't think a city could outlaw private gun ownership?

[freethefly 6]

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mandatory 3½-year prison sentence given to anyone caught carrying an illegal loaded handgun...

Surely, you are not alright with people carrying an illegal loaded handgun. They are breaking the law. If they do not like it, they should try to change the law.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[JohnRich 4]

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Surely, you are not alright with people carrying an illegal loaded handgun. They are breaking the law. If they do not like it, they should try to change the law.

I kind of have this crazy concept that if you're going to go to prison for 3.5 years for a gun crime, that you should have actually done some overt act to threaten or harm someone else. Like robbing a 7-11 at gunpoint, or something like that.

But for someone with no prior felony convictions, just carrying around a gun that they haven't even removed from it's hiding place? That's not worth 3.5 years of someone's life... Would you want people to be sent to prison for 3.5 years for just walking around with an illegal marijuana cigarette in their pocket?

The law should punish people when the threaten or harm others. Not just because they walk around with a pound of steel in their pants.

Furthermore, to make matters worse, this is a "no exceptions" law, which makes it even more wrong-headedf. And innocent law-abiding traveler could be passing through the city, unaware that they aren't allowed to have a handgun in their car. And the next thing they know, from a minor traffic stop, their life is destroyed because they're sentenced to prison for 3.5 years, and a judge isn't even allowed to consider the circumstances.

This law is daft.

And Bloomberg would like to see these kinds of laws spread across the nation...

[Armour666 0]

a gun is not a toy or ststus symbole. yes getting caught with one I would want them gone for 3.5 years they deserve it. We don't let people drive cars without training and passing a test why should expect any less ? don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[kallend 2,027]

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Surely, you are not alright with people carrying an illegal loaded handgun. They are breaking the law. If they do not like it, they should try to change the law.

I kind of have this crazy concept that if you're going to go to prison for 3.5 years for a gun crime, that you should have actually done some overt act to threaten or harm someone else. Like robbing a 7-11 at gunpoint, or something like that.

But for someone with no prior felony convictions, just carrying around a gun that they haven't even removed from it's hiding place? That's not worth 3.5 years of someone's life... Would you want people to be sent to prison for 3.5 years for just walking around with an illegal marijuana cigarette in their pocket?

Well! Possession of 5 grams of crack will trigger a 5 year mandatory minimum sentence. How do you feel about that?

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The law should punish people when the threaten or harm others. Not just because they walk around with a pound of steel in their pants.

Furthermore, to make matters worse, this is a "no exceptions" law, which makes it even more wrong-headedf. And innocent law-abiding traveler could be passing through the city, unaware that they aren't allowed to have a handgun in their car.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If they are breaking the law they are not innocent.

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And the next thing they know, from a minor traffic stop, their life is destroyed because they're sentenced to prison for 3.5 years, and a judge isn't even allowed to consider the circumstances.

This law is daft.

But law abiding gun owners have nothing to fear from it.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 801]

"But law abiding gun owners have nothing to fear from it. "

Your point is moot as this is not possible in New York city. The term simply does not apply in this case.

[kelpdiver 2]

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mandatory 3½-year prison sentence given to anyone caught carrying an illegal loaded handgun...

Surely, you are not alright with people carrying an illegal loaded handgun. They are breaking the law. If they do not like it, they should try to change the law.

I'd have a hard time convicting someone with a real fear for their life. Say someone tries to kill them and they successfully defend themselves? Do you convict them for living (well, for having the gun?)

San Francisco has about a dozen (for 750,000) CCW permits issued. One recently was for a judge after a potential witness was killed. Obviously didn't work out too well for the witness. He wasn't given a legal right to self defense.

So it really comes down to that right versus the laws of NYC. But because of the laws, I would expect most carrying to either have a good reason, or a very bad one. Zero tolerance penalties, like everywhere else, equal zero intelligence.

Drive a car illegally, you don't get jail time at all. Carry a joint, in CA it's a misdomeanor. Carry crack - yep, big time felony.

[kallend 2,027]

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"But law abiding gun owners have nothing to fear from it. "

Your point is moot as this is not possible in New York city. The term simply does not apply in this case.

Really? I thought this law only applied to handguns.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freethefly 6]

Actually, I do agree with you, John. I do think that the punishment is far worst than the crime of merely having a gun. The same with marijuana as with guns, the punishment is draconian. 3.5 years is insane. They should fight for a change.
I did a little bit of research on NYC gun permit laws.
Very interesting.
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/dclm/ldinfo.html

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[diablopilot 2]

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"But law abiding gun owners have nothing to fear from it. "

Your point is moot as this is not possible in New York city. The term simply does not apply in this case.

Really? How so?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Armour666 0]

ya well when the last time you've heard of a bag of weed shooting out in the middle of a neighbourhood ? there is no reason for a person to be packing unless they are trained for it. to many yahoos out there without a clue. and light sentences are no deterent ,

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[rushmc 23]

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Really?! I didn't think a city could outlaw private gun ownership?

You are not really serious are you?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[freethefly 6]

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ya well when the last time you've heard of a bag of weed shooting out in the middle of a neighbourhood ? there is no reason for a person to be packing unless they are trained for it. to many yahoos out there without a clue. and light sentences are no deterent ,

I've owned a gun since before age 10. My first was a Mossberg 20gauge pump. I had it untill it was stolen, along with my truck in Mississippi.
I have never had "training" on a gun. I learned gun safety from my dad.
As for guns "shooting out". Guns don't shoot out unless someone pulls the trigger. I have no problem with responsible ownership. Responsible people do not go around shooting up neighborhoods. Assholes do. They ruin it for everyone else. Those people are the yahoos and are mostly responible for stricter gun laws. If gun laws targeted solely these people then no problem with sending someone up the creek. However, when the law is designed to target everyone, regardless, then it is draconian.

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and light sentences are no deterent

Neither is a heavy sentence. Those who are determined to carry an illegal gun, for whatever reason, will do so without regard.
It's all grey and completely void of contrast. How can a law that cast a net over everyone be anything other than draconian. There are far more responsible gun owners than there are those looking to cause harm. They should fight for the middle ground.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[br0k3n 0]

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Would you want people to be sent to prison for 3.5 years for just walking around with an illegal marijuana cigarette in their pocket?

Have you though about proffesional comedy? perhaps the stand up circuit personally as long as the "marijuana" "cigarette" isnt loaded I dont see a problem, I would hate to read in the papers about another high school massacre with a "marijuana" "cigarette"

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[freethefly 6]

To be fair, I believe that John is speaking for those who are responsible.
However, I don't think NYC is a good place for guns. I have lived there off and on when inspecting the subway and rail system. It is greatly overcrowded. Unless you are a crackshot, chances are you will hit a bystander. It is extremely hard to hit a target that is moving in the open, let alone in a crowd, with a pistol. Ask any cop how hard is it to hit a stationary target in a defensive shooting stance when the adrenaline is pumping. Not easy to do. Try it on the street when there are bystanders and chances are someone other than the assailant will be hit.
On onehand, I see the reason for the law. On the other it is draconian to cast a broad net over everyone.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[sfc 1]

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The law should punish people when the threaten or harm others. Not just because they walk around with a pound of steel in their pants.


This law is daft.

So drink drivers should only be arrested if they wreck and hurt someone, after all just being drunk at the wheel is not bad, I mean you will probably be OK, most of the time they will not wreck.
The law is trying to prevent a bad situation from even happening, it is not the law that it daft.

[freethefly 6]

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The law should punish people when the threaten or harm others. Not just because they walk around with a pound of steel in their pants.


This law is daft.

So drink drivers should only be arrested if they wreck and hurt someone, after all just being drunk at the wheel is not bad, I mean you will probably be OK, most of the time they will not wreck.
The law is trying to prevent a bad situation from even happening, it is not the law that it daft.

With that reasoning, we all should be quickly locked away as anyone of us may be capable of commiting a serious offense. And who could reasonably complain since the law is only trying to prevent a bad situation from even happening.
Casting a net over everyone is daft.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[JohnRich 4]

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yes getting caught with one I would want them gone for 3.5 years they deserve it. We don't let people drive cars without training and passing a test why should expect any less ? don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time.

So if someone is caught driving a car with an expired license, then that would warrant a 3.5 year prison sentence, in your mind?

Why not just make it 10 years? Or 20?

If you want to teach these miscreants a real lesson, give them a decade behind bars. That'll fix the little bastards!

P.S. Do you have any idea of the concept that justice should require that the punishment should fit the seriousness of the crime?

[JohnRich 4]

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Would you want people to be sent to prison for 3.5 years for just walking around with an illegal marijuana cigarette in their pocket?

Have you though about proffesional comedy? perhaps the stand up circuit personally as long as the "marijuana" "cigarette" isnt loaded I dont see a problem, I would hate to read in the papers about another high school massacre with a "marijuana" "cigarette"

So you consider everyone that walks around with a concealed handgun to be the equivalent of someone about to commit a school massacre.

And you think I'm the one being ridiculous?

[Zipp0 1]

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yes getting caught with one I would want them gone for 3.5 years they deserve it. We don't let people drive cars without training and passing a test why should expect any less ? don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time.

So if someone is caught driving a car with an expired license, then that would warrant a 3.5 year prison sentence, in your mind?

Why not just make it 10 years? Or 20?

If you want to teach these miscreants a real lesson, give them a decade behind bars. That'll fix the little bastards!

P.S. Do you have any idea of the concept that justice should require that the punishment should fit the seriousness of the crime?

When you an get a license to carry legally, only those wiith criminal intent or background will carry illegally, and therefore the fact that they are carrying is a very serious crime. If nobody is allowed to carry, get the law changed, or move.

Cars are made to get people home from work. Guns are made to shoot holes in human beings, so the comparison is not a very good one.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[JohnRich 4]

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So drink drivers should only be arrested if they wreck and hurt someone, after all just being drunk at the wheel is not bad, I mean you will probably be OK, most of the time they will not wreck.
The law is trying to prevent a bad situation from even happening, it is not the law that it daft.

Bad analogy.

Being drunk behind the wheel of a car is inherently dangerous and likely to cause an accident.

Carrying a handgun is not.

If it were, then we should take them away from all the police officers immediately, before they hurt someone innocent.