Cuba - should we end the embargo? the poll:

[SpeedRacer 1]

In this thread I discussed ending USA's embargo of Cuba. How do you feel about it?

Speed Racer
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[livendive 8]

Holy shit! Apparently you've found the one issue Speaker's Corner participants agree on!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[crwtom 0]

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Holy shit! Apparently you've found the one issue Speaker's Corner participants agree on!

that this is still in place against most common sense tells you also
something about how much special interest groups have this country
under control - Cuban anti-Castro groups who are highly organized,
and control voter groups in a swing state (Florida). A few thousand
driving politics that impacts 300 Mio.

Cheers, T

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[freethefly 6]

Might as well end it.
http://www.uscuba.org/

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Royd 0]

I believe that it's a two way street.

Since Castro took over, Cuba has been all Castro all of the time.

Castro will not allow Cuba to reach its economic and cultural peak. He has an ideology and has enforced it with a heavy hand.

Castro isn't long for this world, so why should we give him the satisfaction of thinking that he has won his little war with a super power?
I'm sure there will be an uprising once he's dead, but we will still have to deal with several generations of people who have been brainwashed.

There are also thousands of Cubans in this country who understand democracy and capitalism and will turn that island into the tourist paridise that it should be.

[freethefly 6]

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Castro isn't long for this world, so why should we give him the satisfaction of thinking that he has won his little war with a super power?

The U.S. has economic dealings with countries that have a far worst human right record than that of Cuba. We don't wait untill their leaders die to initiate trade. We allow it because their are people in need but, the main reason is because their is money to be made all the way around.
For too many years we have not allowed full trade to punish one man who dared to go against the U.S..
Not only does it hurt relations and trade but, it makes us look like stubborn children who are being stubborn out of spite.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I believe that it's a two way street.

Since Castro took over, Cuba has been all Castro all of the time.

Castro will not allow Cuba to reach its economic and cultural peak. He has an ideology and has enforced it with a heavy hand.

Castro isn't long for this world, so why should we give him the satisfaction of thinking that he has won his little war with a super power?
I'm sure there will be an uprising once he's dead, but we will still have to deal with several generations of people who have been brainwashed.

There are also thousands of Cubans in this country who understand democracy and capitalism and will turn that island into the tourist paridise that it should be.

I believe that whether Castro is alive or dead is not much of a concern.

We need to ask ourselves what is our ultimate goal here.

I believe that Cuba will change for the better and become a more open society sooner if we remove trade restrictions. (see my post in the other Cuba thread for my reasons)

Speed Racer
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[Frenchy68 0]

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There are also thousands of Cubans in this country who understand democracy and capitalism and will turn that island into the tourist paridise that it should be.

Praise the good lord, finally someone understands Cuba's purpose on earth!!!

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Royd 0]

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I believe that whether Castro is alive or dead is not much of a concern.

We need to ask ourselves what is our ultimate goal here.

I believe that Cuba will change for the better and become a more open society sooner if we remove trade restrictions. (see my post in the other Cuba thread for my reasons)

Aren't we the only country that has an embargo against Cuba?

I believe the final point to be made after the death of Castro is that communism is a dead philosophy and produces nothing but poverty and indifference.

Unless Castro had a sudden change of heart or the people rose up and said that they weren't going to take it anymore, all efforts to capitalize that nation will be quashed, simply because it would prove Castro to be wrong, all along.

[Royd 0]

Castro isn't long for this world, so why should we give him the satisfaction of thinking that he has won his little war with a super power?

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The U.S. has economic dealings with countries that have a far worst human right record than that of Cuba. We don't wait untill their leaders die to initiate trade. We allow it because their are people in need but, the main reason is because their is money to be made all the way around.
For too many years we have not allowed full trade to punish one man who dared to go against the U.S..
Not only does it hurt relations and trade but, it makes us look like stubborn children who are being stubborn out of spite.

But, everywhere we go, things turn to shit.I can hear it now. We are nothing but a country who's only interest is nation building.

Cuba currently can have open relations with any number of nations. They can get oil from Venezuela, farming implements for Canada, and I'm sure that Cuba is an agriculturely rich land, if it were allowed to flourish.

The fact is, that Castro considers capitalism to be evil and must oppress the people to keep it from running its natural course.
It's got nothing to do with the people. As far as I can tell, the Cubans in Florida seem to be an industrious, self sustaining group of people.

What a great place for a winter DZ.

[Thanatos340 1]

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Unless Castro had a sudden change of heart or the people rose up and said that they weren't going to take it anymore, all efforts to capitalize that nation will be quashed, simply because it would prove Castro to be wrong, all along.

That worked so well last time... Bay of Pigs anyone??

[pirana 0]

It is unfortunately just a matter of pride at this point. Soon, Fidel will be gone. That, coupled with a change in our administration, should bring the wall down soon. His brother would probably start down that road the day he dies if he had his way. He is a supporter of market forces. He'll probably wait some respectful amount of time, then initiate the change process.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[crotalus01 0]

Castro has used the embargo to stay in power by blaming the embargo for all of Cuba's economic woes. Ending the embargo a long time ago would likely have facilitated a revolution against Castro.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[grue 1]

It's bullshit to have it in place. I don't give a fuck if the US government doesn't want to do business with Cuba, but telling Americans they may not go there and spend their own money is a load of crap.

cavete terrae.

[Royd 0]

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It's bullshit to have it in place. I don't give a fuck if the US government doesn't want to do business with Cuba, but telling Americans they may not go there and spend their own money is a load of crap.

Here's a thought. Purchase for yourself a cigarette boat, make the 90 mile run from Fl., sell it to the highest bidder, and stay there and enjoy yourself.

[grue 1]

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Here's a thought. Purchase for yourself a cigarette boat, make the 90 mile run from Fl., sell it to the highest bidder, and stay there and enjoy yourself.

Here's another thought: Maybe a country that claims to be free should fucking allow citizens of said country to be free.

I don't want to fucking live in Cuba, but telling me I can't spend MY hard earned money there is a load of shit.

cavete terrae.

[Royd 0]

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Here's a thought. Purchase for yourself a cigarette boat, make the 90 mile run from Fl., sell it to the highest bidder, and stay there and enjoy yourself.

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Here's another thought: Maybe a country that claims to be free should fucking allow citizens of said country to be free.

I don't want to fucking live in Cuba, but telling me I can't spend MY hard earned money there is a load of shit.

I think you missed the point. Once you got there with your bag full of money, you would immediately be under the thumb of Castro and his regime.

As I pointed out, we seem to be to only govt. with an embargo. Why isn't Cuba a prosperous nation? They have plenty to offer the rest of the world, tourist wise. Could the problem be internal?

[Misternatural 0]

Trade is good, it breaks down cultural barriers, Look what its done for Dubai,
sorry,

Anyway, trade is good if it is educated and informed trade.
And i think you're right, it's the consumer that should make that choice as to whether or not they want to support a country, regime, or whatever with their money. In a true free market world governments should not determine who gets to trade with whom.

....slaves, weapons, drugs, and animals or plants, well thats another story.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[NCclimber 0]

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It's bullshit to have it in place. I don't give a fuck if the US government doesn't want to do business with Cuba, but telling Americans they may not go there and spend their own money is a load of crap.

Obviously, you've thought this through and have a good read on the big picture.

Do you also think there shouldn't be any restrictions on doing business with drug cartels and terrorist organizations?

[shropshire 0]

>

yeap, I see what you mean... I can see no reason why Cuba should stop their embargo, now that you put it that way

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[NCclimber 0]

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>

yeap, I see what you mean... I can see no reason why Cuba should stop their embargo, now that you put it that way

What are you talking about?

[grue 1]

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It's bullshit to have it in place. I don't give a fuck if the US government doesn't want to do business with Cuba, but telling Americans they may not go there and spend their own money is a load of crap.

Obviously, you've thought this through and have a good read on the big picture.

Do you also think there shouldn't be any restrictions on doing business with drug cartels and terrorist organizations?

We still do business with Saudi Arabia, don't we? Israel?

cavete terrae.

[NCclimber 0]

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Quote

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It's bullshit to have it in place. I don't give a fuck if the US government doesn't want to do business with Cuba, but telling Americans they may not go there and spend their own money is a load of crap.

Obviously, you've thought this through and have a good read on the big picture.

Do you also think there shouldn't be any restrictions on doing business with drug cartels and terrorist organizations?

We still do business with Saudi Arabia, don't we? Israel?

What's your point?

[shropshire 0]

Whoooosh

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[NCclimber 0]

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Whoooosh

That's what I thought.