pajarito 0 #101 August 7, 2007 Quote1. Love God 2. Don’t worship something to suit yourself 3. Don’t take His name in vain 4. Remember the Sabbath Why?Quote Firstly, because the God who gave you life said to. Secondly, because you are selfish by nature and fall way short of the standard set by the God who gave you life. The wages of sin is death. Thirdly, the only good (in God's eyes) which could possibly ever come from you would be because of His Holy Spirit in you and not of yourself. No one can meet the standard of the Moral law. The purpose of it is NOT to show you how to live. The purpose of it is to point you to the cross. Quote5. Honor your parents Should we honor our parents regardless if they are honorable? Yes. Protecting yourself or others from danger, however, would be a different circumstance. Quote10. Don’t desire what belongs to another QuoteWhy? (Is it wrong to desire the relationship another has with God?) Depends on the motive. If you desire the relationship another has with God because you want peace, love, joy, fulfillment, long-lasting happiness, contentment, or something else for yourself, then YES. If you desire the relationship another has with God because you realize you've offended God with your lawlessness, are very sorry for it, and are willing to trust in Jesus (alone) to "recieve" His forgiveness, then NO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #102 August 7, 2007 Quote fall way short of the standard set by the God who gave you life. why didn't god make us up to his standards? better yet, why did god create us at all knowing that most would burn in hell for eternity because he didn't make us good enough? sounds pretty fucking sadistic to me. if your god exists, he's a mean asshole. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #103 August 7, 2007 Paj - you used to provide great discussions and insight, while still remaining very true to your beliefs, without getting all up on the pulpit and talking to yourself. It was intelligent, your belief was admirable in that it was yours and wasn't all cliche'd. Now you just sound like a cult member. what happened? It just seems like a friend went from a truly righteous man, to more of a cliched 'self righteous' man. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #104 August 7, 2007 Quote Firstly, because the God who gave you life said to. ... Thirdly, the only good (in God's eyes) which could possibly ever come from you would be because of His Holy Spirit in you and not of yourself. No one can meet the standard of the Moral law. The purpose of it is NOT to show you how to live. The purpose of it is to point you to the cross. You believe that we are not responsible for anything we do that is good but we are responsible for everything we do that is bad and you believe that your God created us unable to meet the standard of moral law on purpose ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brittentay 0 #105 August 7, 2007 QuoteQuote fall way short of the standard set by the God who gave you life. why didn't god make us up to his standards? better yet, why did god create us at all knowing that most would burn in hell for eternity because he didn't make us good enough? sounds pretty fucking sadistic to me. if your god exists, he's a mean asshole. ditto!! i grew up in a very religous family. surrounded my entire life by god, morals, prayers, and a belief i didnt share. although i am no longer involved in any one religion i did find this book to be both intriguing and insightful (as i do my best to be accepting of all religions)... If Grace Is True Why god will save every person "Why Everyone Will Be in Heaven Two pastors present their controversial belief in eternal salvation for all through God's perfect grace. Long disturbed by the Church's struggle between offering both love and rejection, they discover what God wants from us and for us: grace for everyone." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #106 August 7, 2007 Quote Paj - you used to provide great discussions and insight, while still remaining very true to your beliefs, without getting all up on the pulpit and talking to yourself. It was intelligent, your belief was admirable in that it was yours and wasn't all cliche'd. Now you just sound like a cult member. And people wonder why I don't debate him seriously anymore.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #107 August 7, 2007 Quote Quote Paj - you used to provide great discussions and insight, while still remaining very true to your beliefs, without getting all up on the pulpit and talking to yourself. It was intelligent, your belief was admirable in that it was yours and wasn't all cliche'd. Now you just sound like a cult member. And people wonder why I don't debate him seriously anymore. though you take a trek to other end once in a while to blow off steam, I can always count on you coming back over and hitting the points when it matters. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #108 August 7, 2007 Quotewhy didn't god make us up to his standards? better yet, why did god create us at all knowing that most would burn in hell for eternity because he didn't make us good enough? sounds pretty fucking sadistic to me. if your god exists, he's a mean asshole. If God made you up to His standards, you’d be just like God. We are all responsible moral agents. You commit sin. The “God made me do it” defense wouldn’t work in a court room and it won’t work for you on Judgment Day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #109 August 7, 2007 Quote Through study of the Scriptures he found that salvation didn’t come through anything he did, but simply through trusting in the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ. So if I kill, steal and cheat, but I trust in the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ - I am saved, right? Looks like this Martin was the first Republican.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #110 August 7, 2007 QuoteQuotewhy didn't god make us up to his standards? If God made you up to His standards, you’d be just like God. Why didn't your God make us just like your God (and thus up to your God's standards)?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #111 August 7, 2007 QuoteI guess we're not sheeple, after all. But it was said that Chrsitianity leads us to recognise some kind of absolute good and evil. So how good Christians are those who do not agree with the official absolute good and evil? And how far the "not sheeple" goes? Could a gay be considered a Christian? A pedophile? A mass murderer in the name of God?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #112 August 7, 2007 QuoteQuotewhy didn't god make us up to his standards? better yet, why did god create us at all knowing that most would burn in hell for eternity because he didn't make us good enough? sounds pretty fucking sadistic to me. if your god exists, he's a mean asshole. If God made you up to His standards, you’d be just like God. We are all responsible moral agents. You commit sin. The “God made me do it” defense wouldn’t work in a court room and it won’t work for you on Judgment Day. All these claims, yet no evidence to support any of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #113 August 7, 2007 Quote You believe that we are not responsible for anything we do that is good but we are responsible for everything we do that is bad and you believe that your God created us unable to meet the standard of moral law on purpose ... Quote “There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, Together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.” Romans 3:10-12 Quote Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #114 August 7, 2007 I am not asking you to quote passages from your Bible ... I am asking you to explain why you accept a God that created you unable to do good but able to do bad, why you accept a God that created you unable to meet the standard of moral law of your God, etc..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #115 August 7, 2007 QuoteSo if I kill, steal and cheat, but I trust in the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ - I am saved, right? If you'd sincerely trusted in the finished work of Jesus at the cross, you wouldn't kill, steal, or cheat. If God had transformed you into a "new creature in Christ" and was growing you in holiness (e.g. born again), you wouldn't do those things. You're not saved because you’re a good person or for anything you've done. You're saved because you're a very bad person who's been forgiven. Being truly sorry and repentant for your lawlessness does not mean that you continue to live in a lifestyle of sin. Being sorry is evidenced by a change in direction (a “good” work being done in you). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #116 August 7, 2007 QuoteWhy didn't your God make us just like your God (and thus up to your God's standards)? Ummm........ Because He's God... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #117 August 7, 2007 QuoteAll these claims, yet no evidence to support any of them. Plenty evidence. Just evidence that you reject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #118 August 7, 2007 Quote Quote Why didn't your God make us just like your God (and thus up to your God's standards)? Ummm........ Because He's God... Ummm........ So your God didn't make us just like your God because "He's God". Good answer! "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #119 August 7, 2007 QuoteI am not asking you to quote passages from your Bible ... I am asking you to explain why you accept a God that created you unable to do good but able to do bad, why you accept a God that created you unable to meet the standard of moral law of your God, etc... The truth of the Bible is what I am defending. How can I do that without quoting it? QuoteFor if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:26-31 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #120 August 7, 2007 Quote Ummm........ So your God didn't make us just like your God because "He's God". Good answer! Don't really know how else to explain it. He's God. You're not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #121 August 7, 2007 QuoteBible is what I am defending. How can I do that without quoting it? I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO DEFEND YOUR BIBLE OR YOUR GOD. I AM ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU ACCEPT YOUR GOD GIVEN YOUR GOD CREATED YOU UNABLE TO DO GOOD BUT ABLE TO DO BAD, GIVEN YOUR GOD CREATED YOU UNABLE TO LIVE BY THE MORAL STANDARDS OF YOUR GOD, ETC..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funkcanna 0 #122 August 7, 2007 Quote The truth of the Bible is what I am defending. How can I do that without quoting it? how do you know its the truth? Were you there?To know requires proof To believe requires evidence To have faith requires neither. If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #123 August 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteAll these claims, yet no evidence to support any of them. Plenty evidence. Just evidence that you reject. If there were evidence then there would be no need for faith. Your "evidence" didn't qualify in any way as evidence. You might want to look up the definition of evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #124 August 7, 2007 QuoteI AM NOT ASKING YOU TO DEFEND YOUR BIBLE OR YOUR GOD. I AM ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU ACCEPT YOUR GOD GIVEN YOUR GOD CREATED YOU UNABLE TO DO GOOD BUT ABLE TO DO BAD, GIVEN YOUR GOD CREATED YOU UNABLE TO LIVE BY THE MORAL STANDARDS OF YOUR GOD, ETC... Because......God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. --------------------------------- Side Note: God does not need our acceptance. He requires our obedience (repentance & trust). He convinces us of our sin. We agree with Him. That's as far as our acceptance goes. He then decides whether to save us. We then receive His forgiveness. ---------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #125 August 7, 2007 Quotehow do you know its the truth? Were you there? No. But plenty of credible eye-witnesses were. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
