Tancredo: Bomb Muslim holy sites first

[TrophyHusband 0]

at the risk of getting flamed by the "enlightened" crowd here, i agree with you. let the so-called moderates know that they can save their religion by standing up to the extremists or at least ratting them out, or we will consider them all enemies and begin destroying holy sites and mosques. it sounds brutal and barbarian, but the simple fact is that this war will not end until one side wins, period. we can bring all of our troop home tommorrow, but the jihad will continue. these are not people who we can sit down and talk to. they want to destroy our way of life and convert the world to islam by the sword. war sucks and in order to win, ugly things have to happen.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[funkcanna 0]

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... and convert the world to islam by the sword. .

Sounds the same as the way christianity spread...

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[shropshire 0]

Mr Walnut... meet Mr Sledgehammer

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Royd 0]

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... and convert the world to islam by the sword. .

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Sounds the same as the way christianity spread...

Only problem is that it's 5 centuries later.

[juanesky 0]

And also forgot to mention that after the Christianity spreading was over, (thanks to our European royalty), they kept on taking on and colonizing the rest of the world. Until rather recently.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[funkcanna 0]

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Only problem is that it's 5 centuries later.

Why is it different? cos it suits you? go back and tell all the scientists who were burned at the stake for being "heathens" only to be proved right.

yeah your religion is the epitomy of human kindness isnt it...

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[NewGuy2005 53]

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You've already lost the war before you even starting fighting it...

How appropiate from a French perspective

Thanks man I needed that.

Before you criticize the French, recall their role during World War 1. Their courage and sacrifice should be an example for us all.

[Frenchy68 0]

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at the risk of getting flamed by the "enlightened" crowd here, i agree with you. let the so-called moderates know that they can save their religion by standing up to the extremists or at least ratting them out, or we will consider them all enemies and begin destroying holy sites and mosques. it sounds brutal and barbarian, but the simple fact is that this war will not end until one side wins, period. we can bring all of our troop home tommorrow, but the jihad will continue. these are not people who we can sit down and talk to. they want to destroy our way of life and convert the world to islam by the sword. war sucks and in order to win, ugly things have to happen.

The problem with going after Muslim holy sites is that you will force the huge quiet minority of Muslims who may not have taken sides to do so. And they will side with AQ. Blaming the silent majority is pretty pointless. The US didn't do squat against Hitler until December 1941. However, an event occurred which forced the US to make a stand.
Destroying Muslim Holy sites would accomplish nothing in terms of "scaring" them, but would "force" the worldwide Muslim community to declare the US its enemy.
As history should have taught us since the Vietnam war, the US can win pretty much any military battle, but can lose wars politically.
We can debate how well things are going in Iraq against few tens of thousands of insurgents. However, I doubt it would be a close call should the war be fought against hundreds of millions.
As much as it sometimes hurt the ego of some dick whipping politicians in Washington, there are wars which can not be won, and therefore should not be fought.
Bombing Muslim sites puts the war at the religious level, which is EXACTLY what AQ wants us to do.
I am sure we can try hard and start thinking with our brains instead of our muscles, and thus try and outsmart them...

Edited to add: I am certainly NOT suggesting letting AQ get away with its action. I am merely hoping we will fight them smartly, understanding our and their strength and weaknesses, and acting accordingly.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[ryoder 1,590]

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Bombing Muslim sites puts the war at the religious level, which is EXACTLY what AQ wants us to do.
I am sure we can try hard and start thinking with our brains instead of our muscles, and thus try and outsmart them...

I saw a PBS documentary recently which explained that AQ was pretty much washed up after the defeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan. But then something happened which showed the Muslim world that everything Osman Bin Laden had been saying about the US was correct, and caused a HUGE influx of new recruits itching to fight the US: The invasion of Iraq.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I'm trying to figure out which are the serious posters, and which are the trolls in this thread.

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[Royd 0]

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Bombing Muslim sites puts the war at the religious level, which is EXACTLY what AQ wants us to do.

How many attacks on us by those in the Muslim community haven't invoked the name of Allah in the process? You can't separate their reiligion and their politicss.

We've spanked other despots into submission using a heavy hand.

[Frenchy68 0]

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You can't separate their reiligion and their politicss.

Of course you can. Fight an organization (AQ and its followers), not a religion. That way, you narrow it down to to few tens of thousands, instead of, let's say, close to 20% of the world population.

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We've spanked other despots into submission using a heavy hand.

Indeed, but never a religion. A despot is an easy target. Put a name on a face, a face on a body, a body into a uniform, and an army around the uniform. Easy to identify, easy to target, easy to take down.
Much harder fighting a "religion". Could you describe what a religion looks like?
And if bombing Mecca would bring the Muslims into submission, would the destruction of an American symbol bring the American people into submission? I doubt it. in both cases, it pissed people off, and ensures there are more people wishing the destruction of the enemy.
Making your enemy stronger has rarely been a winning strategy, and I doubt it would work in this situation.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Gawain 0]

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Bombing Muslim sites puts the war at the religious level, which is EXACTLY what AQ wants us to do.

How many attacks on us by those in the Muslim community haven't invoked the name of Allah in the process? You can't separate their reiligion and their politicss.

We've spanked other despots into submission using a heavy hand.

....ding ding ding ding...we have a winner.

As I said, the extremists have already made it about religion, regardless of how carefully we tread around the issue.

Do I want us to carry a religious banner as we fight in this campaign, no. Do I want us to exploit the tactic the other side is using to our advantage, yes. Is it easy and 100% effective, no.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

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You can't separate their reiligion and their politicss.

Of course you can. Fight an organization (AQ and its followers), not a religion. That way, you narrow it down to to few tens of thousands, instead of, let's say, close to 20% of the world population.

The way you state that indicates to me that you know little about the Islamic faith and nothing about Al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda's mission is create a complete Islamic state.

The religion itself is not secular in nature, nor is AQ.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Frenchy68 0]

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Al Qaeda's mission is create a complete Islamic state.

I am aware of this.

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The religion itself is not secular in nature, nor is AQ.

And I am also aware of that.
But bombing Islamic shrines would certainly piss off AQ (I doubt it would piss them off to submission though, but hey, who knows...). In the process, it would really hurt tens, if not hundred, of millions of Muslims who have, so far, not gotten involved. That is the situation I would try to avoid.
Unless you are implying, which I doubt you are, that every muslim by definition is a supporter of AQ (in which case, are the allied forces in Iraq helping AQ to build a strong a stable nation???).

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[funkcanna 0]

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As I said, the extremists have already made it about religion, regardless of how carefully we tread around the issue.
.

Exactly - EXTREMISTS. What about the other 90% of the muslim community who hate how AQ and other extremists are marring their religion?

By saying what your saying you are no better than the Muslim extremists, your a Catholic extremist - saying that all Muslims need wiped out is sick and twisted and shows that you live extremely far up your own arse. I hope you get a divine experience with your head up there..

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[Royd 0]

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You can't separate their reiligion and their politicss.

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Of course you can. Fight an organization (AQ and its followers), not a religion. That way, you narrow it down to to few tens of thousands, instead of, let's say, close to 20% of the world population.

Are you saying that AQ[common soldier] has two different compartments in his mind, separating religion from politics?

These people come from any number of countries, so they are obviously not there to defend their particular country. Islam is the only thing that ties them together.

[funkcanna 0]

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These people come from any number of countries, so they are obviously not there to defend their particular country. Islam is the only thing that ties them together.

Thats because they are RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS. Just because Islam is the religion of choice for these extremists, doesnt make every Muslim the same.

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[shropshire 0]

<>

That may be true but I seriously doubt it's the mission of the majority of people over there..

Everyone has an agenda. So what is America's? or rather the extremists (like the PNAC folk) - but I bet that it's not the same mission as Mr Joe Public on that side of the pond.

What ever arguments one can raise with Extreme Islam in the subject line, I bet you can reword with Extreme Christian etc..

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jakee 1,501]

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I think it's a good idea. We didn't start this war, they did. And it's already upon us.

For starters, Muslim is a gutter religion, opposed to all our values. Please don't tell me there are "moderate, peace loving" Muslims either. If there were, they would be ratting out their co-religionists who are supposedly giving their religion a bad name.

The tough thing about war is that it sucks. People get killed in the name of bigger stupider shit. The Muslims have already started it. So the deal is simple; either they can knock it the fuck off, or we can simply destroy their religion, period.

I have no moral qualms at all about nuking Mecca or any other of their stupid filthy religious sites. Kill them all, before they kill us. They started it, now they can knock it off or die.

Congratulations.

You've managed to come up with a plan that is both morally reprehensible and also completely fucking stupid and counterproductive at the same time! That's quite a talent.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

Islam is a religion of peace, and the extremists are just distorting it.

Your buddy President George W. Bush said so.

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[SpeedRacer 1]

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I think it's a good idea. We didn't start this war, they did. And it's already upon us.

For starters, Muslim is a gutter religion, opposed to all our values. Please don't tell me there are "moderate, peace loving" Muslims either. If there were, they would be ratting out their co-religionists who are supposedly giving their religion a bad name.

The tough thing about war is that it sucks. People get killed in the name of bigger stupider shit. The Muslims have already started it. So the deal is simple; either they can knock it the fuck off, or we can simply destroy their religion, period.

I have no moral qualms at all about nuking Mecca or any other of their stupid filthy religious sites. Kill them all, before they kill us. They started it, now they can knock it off or die.

Congratulations.

You've managed to come up with a plan that is both morally reprehensible and also completely fucking stupid and counterproductive at the same time! That's quite a talent.

I think that one was a troll.

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[jakee 1,501]

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....ding ding ding ding...we have a winner.

As I said, the extremists have already made it about religion, regardless of how carefully we tread around the issue.

No we don't.

The war from our point of view is not about religion. It is about protecting ourselves from terrorism.

If we switch our focus from being anti-terror to anti-Islam then we would simply validate all the extremist rhetoric and mobilise huge amounts of new recruits to their cause, both at home and abroad.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[philh 0]

"How many attacks on us by those in the Muslim community haven't invoked the name of Allah in the process?"

I agree withyou Royd that Aq are clearly motivated by Islam. But whilst all AQ are Muslims not all Muslims are Aq.
The number of Muslims on this planet is just over 1 billion. The number of people that are members of terrorists groups like Aq are probably a few thousand. We dont want that ratio getting more balanced. Bombing Mecca or medina whilst maybe pschyologicaly satisying in the wake of an attack in the West would most likely rally the worlds Mulsim population to Aq's cause. Is that something we want?

[jakee 1,501]

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I think it's a good idea. We didn't start this war, they did. And it's already upon us.

For starters, Muslim is a gutter religion, opposed to all our values. Please don't tell me there are "moderate, peace loving" Muslims either. If there were, they would be ratting out their co-religionists who are supposedly giving their religion a bad name.

The tough thing about war is that it sucks. People get killed in the name of bigger stupider shit. The Muslims have already started it. So the deal is simple; either they can knock it the fuck off, or we can simply destroy their religion, period.

I have no moral qualms at all about nuking Mecca or any other of their stupid filthy religious sites. Kill them all, before they kill us. They started it, now they can knock it off or die.

Congratulations.

You've managed to come up with a plan that is both morally reprehensible and also completely fucking stupid and counterproductive at the same time! That's quite a talent.

I think that one was a troll.

I bet you don't disagree with me though.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?