Tancredo: Bomb Muslim holy sites first

[NCclimber 0]

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Did you even read what linked too.
In 1847

Do you really want to play this game again? Because if you want to look at whose hands are bloodier by going in to the past the peace loving Christians are socked in it.

If you want to mentions certain incidents where people have killed one another we can do that to.
India and Pakistan hate each other, the Hindu kill the Muslims and the Muslims kill the Hindu this has been a conflict that has been going on for a long time.

Okay, let's just limit it to the present. What's the deal with the violence between the Shiites and the Sunnis? They're both Muslim, yet they're not really about embracing/accepting one another.

How many hundreds of thousands of Christians have been killed by Muslims, in southern Sudan, over the past 25 years?

What is policy in Saudi Arabia for non-Muslims openly practicing their faith? Isn't it imprisonment.

How many churches have been burned in Indonesia in the last 10 years? How about homes and stores owned by Christians?

Blasphemy laws in Pakistan?

And then there's that whole Israel vs. Egypt, Syria, Iran, etc that's been going on for 60 years.

Islam is the only religion to accept other religions?

Riiiight.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Sorry. If they actually believed and accepted Jesus as a prophet, they would have obeyed and followed him.

Good advice for Christians.

[Darius11 12]

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Bibles, Koran, Hindu Prophesies, Ancient book of the dead, Buddha’s Toilet paper. I don’t care what people hand out. None of it justifies killing innocent people.

The fact that you feel it does says alot about Islam.

A Man of peace would see that.

ok one last time.

This is what you said word for word.

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Bullshit.
Tell you what, Try handing out a few Bibles in a Muslim Country and see how acceptant they are of other religions.

Where did you say is it ok for muslims to KILL people handing out books?

Where did i say it is ok to kill people handing out books?

where are you getting this shit from?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[shropshire 0]

The publishers of the content of that link won't support it so why should we? Wiki content is famous for being dubious. If you chose to cite that article, which has a clear caveat from the publishers, without backup material then may I suggest that your case is weak at best?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Darius11 12]

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Okay, let's just limit it to the present. What's the deal with the violence between the Shiites and the Sunnis? They're both Muslim, yet they're not really about embracing/accepting one another.

Stupidity.
They are killing each other for minimum differences while forgetting the core of the religion.
No different then the Catholics and Protestants who kill each other while forgetting that the core of their religions is peace.
It happens whenever people have extreme views and sure that they are always right.

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How many hundreds of thousands of Christians have been killed by Muslims, in southern Sudan, over the past 25 years?

Again horrible but lets not for get Mosanvics ethnic cleansing of Muslims. One of the games they like to play with pregnant Muslims woman was to make a bet on the sex of her baby then slice her open to see who won.

There are people of all religions who have committed horrible atrocities in the name of god. This is not by far just a Muslim thing.

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What is policy in Saudi Arabia for non-Muslims openly practicing their faith? Isn't it imprisonment.

I honestly don’t know, but I do know they are one of our biggest allies in the Middle East be careful who you take to bed with you.

I know Iran because I have lived there, so when someone makes a blanket statement “all Muslims” it is easy to prove them wrong. I don’t claim to know the laws of every country.

I do know Islam as it is practiced today.

If you read any religious text regardless of what religion there is some seriously stupid shit in all of them.

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Islam is the only religion to accept other religions?

Riiiight.

Yes it is. you can make as many things as you like, but it is the ONLY religion out of the majore 3 that accepts other religions in its core.

that can not be said about the other two.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rehmwa 2]

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but it is the ONLY religion out of the majore 3 that accepts other religions in its core.

that can not be said about the other two.

Nuts, each religion attempted to steal rituals and parts of other religions in order to increase their influence. Christmas? Stolen from several rites, Muslims adding Jesus to their roles of prophets, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism? I don't have an example there, but only because I don't like to search for stuff. Some anti-religious nut will post 30 links to examples anyway.

The big business of organized religion has used these tricks throughout history. Especially attempted absorption of other religions.

I wonder if the presumed "big 3" are really the big 3 by population - there are a lot of Buddhists and Hindus nowadays, certainly they would outpopulate Judaism? (Or would Judaism be combined with Protestants and Catholics as a single group?)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,501]

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None of it justifies killing innocent people.

Then what exactly justifies planting a nuke in Mecca? How many innocents are you willing to kill to get your way?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Darius11 12]

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but it is the ONLY religion out of the majore 3 that accepts other religions in its core.

that can not be said about the other two.

Nuts, each religion attempted to steal rituals and parts of other religions in order to increase their influence. Christmas? Stolen from several rites, Muslims adding Jesus to their roles of prophets, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism? I don't have an example there, but only because I don't like to search for stuff. Some anti-religious nut will post 30 links to examples anyway.

The big business of organized religion has used these tricks throughout history. Especially attempted absorption of other religions.

I wonder if the presumed "big 3" are really the big 3 by population - there are a lot of Buddhists and Hindus nowadays, certainly they would outpopulate Judaism? (Or would Judaism be combined with Protestants and Catholics as a single group?)

Agree and many my self included do not follow are religion word for word, but still concider my self a follower


I am not for organized religion at all. Politics and religion do not go hand and hand or I should not is what I meant to say.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[SpeedRacer 1]

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How many innocents are you willing to kill to get your way?

I'm not sure what "his way" is.

Not only is his "strategy" immoral, it would also completely defeat all our efforts.

It would have essentially the same effect as surrendering to Al Quaeda.

Speed Racer
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[jakee 1,501]

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I wonder if the presumed "big 3" are really the big 3 by population - there are a lot of Buddhists and Hindus nowadays, certainly they would outpopulate Judaism?

It would be absolutely laughable to consider judaism, as a stand alone faith, as one of the worlds major religions. It is, as you say, completely insignificant compared to Christianity, Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism. Even Sikhism has approximately double the amount of adherents!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

well, Judaism IS one of the major faiths because of its importance, not just number of members.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 3,009]

>How many is "some"?

A percentage of the total. His article was written in english, and is fairly easy to understand - unless your political position requires you to misunderstand it.

Can you at least agree that the statement "they are not standing up to speak out against what is being done by the Nutjobs in the name of their religion?" is incorrect?

[billvon 3,009]

>Sura 9:5, perhaps?

Just as the bible describes how, when invading a city, God wants the victors to kill all the innocent men, children and non-virgin women - but keep the virgins for themselves. It also says in no uncertain terms that gays shall be put to death.

The leap from that to "christians believe that God wants them to kill or rape everyone in the cities they invade" or "any real christian must kill gays or risk hell" is a pretty big one.

[mnealtx 0]

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>Sura 9:5, perhaps?

Just as the bible describes how, when invading a city, God wants the victors to kill all the innocent men, children and non-virgin women - but keep the virgins for themselves. It also says in no uncertain terms that gays shall be put to death.

The leap from that to "christians believe that God wants them to kill or rape everyone in the cities they invade" or "any real christian must kill gays or risk hell" is a pretty big one.

Agreed - and I was fully aware of the dichotomy between Old and New Testament scripture when I wrote that. He *DID* ask where the Quran spoke of killing non-believers, however. He also spoke of Islam fully accepting other religions, which they do... as long as they pay the jizyah and live as second class citizens under the true believers.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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I'll bet that if we made a blanket policy that if terrorists came from any given country, and caused us harm, that we would deal with that country with a heavy hand, swiftly, they would start dealing with the punks, themselves

Most of them came from our good buddies in the Kingdom of Saud.... home to the Wahabbi Sect that is preaching a whole lot of DEATH to the Infidels.

[jakee 1,501]

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well, Judaism IS one of the major faiths because of its importance, not just number of members.

Apart from having an extremely powerful lobby in DC, why exactly is it important?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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well, Judaism IS one of the major faiths because of its importance, not just number of members.

Apart from having an extremely powerful lobby in DC, why exactly is it important?

Judaism was the foundation from which the other major Western Religions (Christianity and Islam) arose.

Speed Racer
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[jakee 1,501]

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well, Judaism IS one of the major faiths because of its importance, not just number of members.

Apart from having an extremely powerful lobby in DC, why exactly is it important?

Judaism was the foundation from which the other major Western Religions (Christianity and Islam) arose.

Which makes it now obsolete as well as tiny, no?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Casurf1978 0]

There is no comparison between WWII and the current situation. You should also study the list of cities that were possible targets. One in particular was not chosen because of its cultural and religious significance. Many thought that destroying this city would've infuriated the Japanese.

Why should we destroy a city and kill thousands maybe tens of thousands for the acts of a few nut jobs. You also advocate using a nuclear weapon. Are you serious? Do you have any idea what the repercussions of that would be. I wonder if you would feel the same if Saudi Arabia had a few nukes.

[NCclimber 0]

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>How many is "some"?

A percentage of the total.

I said "how many" not "what is your meaning of".

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His article was written in english, and is fairly easy to understand - unless your political position requires you to misunderstand it.

You just can't help yourself, can you? Thanks for keeping it above board.

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Can you at least agree that the statement "they are not standing up to speak out against what is being done by the Nutjobs in the name of their religion?" is incorrect?

Sure. I can agree to that.

I checked out the link that had "105 fatwas from Islamic scholars, 75 statements by Islamic Organizations (many of these signed by anywhere from 50 to 500 scholars from around the world), and 142 statements by individual Muslims."

I looked at the page with the 105 Fatwas. Going by the subject given for each fatwa, a whopping 40 were about the Danish cartoons and merely 5 were about Bin Laden. IOW the Danish caroons recieved eight times as many fatwas as Bin Laden.

I'm guessing you'll see nothing wrong with those kinds of screwy priorities.

[Skyrad 0]

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Nice rant Darius. You made some good points.

While I try not to buy into the negative stereotypes that get directed at Muslims and Islam, I have read a number of stories (mostly about the Middle East and northern Africa), claiming that non-Muslims are treated like secondclass citizens (or even like livestock) when it comes to rights and legal protections... that assaults on non-Muslims are not punishable offenses... that possession of holy books other than Koran is against the law.

Are these stories I read just cherry picked exceptions or are they the norm?

I recall reading about across-the-board intolerance in Saudi Arabia. Is that true? Do other countries practice the same?

Some of what you say is true not of Muslim countries in genreral but of some countries and its not down to Islam but to the politics of those countries. For example Saudi Arabia, Americas number one allie in the region is as you most likely know one of the most repressive regimes in the world. The fact that it is so closely alligned with Washington points out the glaring lie that America gives a fuck about freedom and democracy, it only cares about whats under the sand not about the lives of those above it. If you want a good example of a Muslim country look at Turkey which has just re voted the Islamist AK party back into power.
Its democratic, pro European, legaly secularly equal, anti extremist, economicly very sucessful, capatalist, it has abolished the death penalty, pro minority (including iving minorities the right to education in their own language), it has reformed human rights including the end ing punishment for critisim of the armed forces and has even tried to change the law to stop the military from interveaning in the democratic process. That is the closest to a true Islamic state. The sad fact is that until Washington stops supporting state sponsered terror and despotic regimes Turkey will remain as the exception rather than the norm.

http://www.newstatesman.com/200707260016

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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I know there are Good Muslims. But Why are they not standing up to speak out against what is being done by the Nutjobs in the name of their religion??

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1053909.ece

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

http://www.freemuslims.org/

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/435

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

http://www.unite-against-terror.com/

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/128216.htm

http://www.maat.r8.org/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3586703.stm

http://www.int-review.org/terr42a.html

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/03/massive-muslim-protest-in-bahrain.html

http://www.awesomelibrary.org/Muslims.html

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/11/massive-muslim-demonstration-against.html

http://adloyada.typepad.com/adloyada/2005/11/150000_muslims_.html

Guess you should read wider.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[NCclimber 0]

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Nice rant Darius. You made some good points.

While I try not to buy into the negative stereotypes that get directed at Muslims and Islam, I have read a number of stories (mostly about the Middle East and northern Africa), claiming that non-Muslims are treated like secondclass citizens (or even like livestock) when it comes to rights and legal protections... that assaults on non-Muslims are not punishable offenses... that possession of holy books other than Koran is against the law.

Are these stories I read just cherry picked exceptions or are they the norm?

I recall reading about across-the-board intolerance in Saudi Arabia. Is that true? Do other countries practice the same?

Some of what you say is true not of Muslim countries in genreral but of some countries and its not down to Islam but to the politics of those countries. For example Saudi Arabia, Americas number one allie in the region is as you most likely know one of the most repressive regimes in the world. The fact that it is so closely alligned with Washington points out the glaring lie that America gives a fuck about freedom and democracy, it only cares about whats under the sand not about the lives of those above it. If you want a good example of a Muslim country look at Turkey which has just re voted the Islamist AK party back into power.
Its democratic, pro European, legaly secularly equal, anti extremist, economicly very sucessful, capatalist, it has abolished the death penalty, pro minority (including iving minorities the right to education in their own language), it has reformed human rights including the end ing punishment for critisim of the armed forces and has even tried to change the law to stop the military from interveaning in the democratic process. That is the closest to a true Islamic state. The sad fact is that until Washington stops supporting state sponsered terror and despotic regimes Turkey will remain as the exception rather than the norm.

http://www.newstatesman.com/200707260016

Sometimes I read replies to my posts and wonder "What does this have to do with my post???"

[Skyrad 0]

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Are these stories I read just cherry picked exceptions or are they the norm?

I recall reading about across-the-board intolerance in Saudi Arabia. Is that true? Do other countries practice the same?

You asked a question I gave you an answer, its not really all that difficult, do try and keep up there a good chap

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[NCclimber 0]

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Are these stories I read just cherry picked exceptions or are they the norm?

I recall reading about across-the-board intolerance in Saudi Arabia. Is that true? Do other countries practice the same?

You asked a question I gave you an answer, its not really all that difficult, do try and keep up there a good chap

What did the following have to do with my question?

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The fact that it is so closely alligned with Washington points out the glaring lie that America gives a fuck about freedom and democracy, it only cares about whats under the sand not about the lives of those above it. If you want a good example of a Muslim country look at Turkey which has just re voted the Islamist AK party back into power.
Its democratic, pro European, legaly secularly equal, anti extremist, economicly very sucessful, capatalist, it has abolished the death penalty, pro minority (including iving minorities the right to education in their own language), it has reformed human rights including the end ing punishment for critisim of the armed forces and has even tried to change the law to stop the military from interveaning in the democratic process. That is the closest to a true Islamic state. The sad fact is that until Washington stops supporting state sponsered terror and despotic regimes Turkey will remain as the exception rather than the norm.

I ask because I am trying to keep up.