steveorino 7 #651 August 28, 2007 QuoteSo for god to be God he has to be unknowable and mysterious?? Yeah that really makes me want to believe! Again, if there is a god that created "everything" and existed outside of time, wouldn't he be unknowable and mysterious apart from what he wants us to know about him, either through nature or revelation? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #652 August 28, 2007 But of course then... reducing him to something he isnt... but how do you know you aren't reducing him to what he really is... nothing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #653 August 28, 2007 If there really was a god don't you think he would be a little less ambiguous? Why can't he just communicate with us directly instead of through an old book that can be interpreted in many different ways? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #654 August 28, 2007 QuoteBut of course then... reducing him to something he isnt... but how do you know you aren't reducing him to what he really is... nothing? Curious, how am I "reducing God"? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #655 August 28, 2007 QuoteIf there really was a god don't you think he would be a little less ambiguous? Why can't he just communicate with us directly instead of through an old book that can be interpreted in many different ways? I guess that would be a question you'd have. My questions would be a lot different. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #656 August 28, 2007 And the answer is God or god or gods don't exist. People made them up to satisfy their need to explain everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #657 August 28, 2007 There is that F word again... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #658 August 28, 2007 QuoteAnd the answer is God or god or gods don't exist. People made them up to satisfy their need to explain everything. How do you know that without a doubt? What happened before the "big bang" in your opinion? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #659 August 28, 2007 Quote There is that F word again... We all exercise it in regards to God in some way IMHO steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #660 August 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteAnd the answer is God or god or gods don't exist. People made them up to satisfy their need to explain everything. How do you know that without a doubt? What happened before the "big bang" in your opinion? I don't necessarily know with out any doubt at all that gods don't exist. Since there is no evidence of any gods I can only conclude that gods don't exist. Now if there were to be some evidence then I would change my conclusion. Just because no one knows what happened before the "big bang" does not mean there is a god. That type of conclusion is what ancient people came to when they came across anything they didn't understand. Just because we don't understand something or don't have full knowledge of something doesn't automatically mean there is a supernatural reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #661 August 28, 2007 QuoteJust because we don't understand something or don't have full knowledge of something doesn't automatically mean there is a supernatural reason. By a similar argument: Just because we don't have full knowledge of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #662 August 28, 2007 QuoteBy a similar argument: Just because we don't have full knowledge of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I dont need _full_ knowledge of something to conclude it exists. But I do need _significant_ knowledge of it to do so.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #663 August 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteJust because we don't understand something or don't have full knowledge of something doesn't automatically mean there is a supernatural reason. By a similar argument: Just because we don't have full knowledge of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Right but if there is no evidence then there is no reason to believe it exists. Kind of like the boogie man. Do you believe the boogie man exists? "full knowledge" isn't necessary, but some evidence is necessary to believe something exists. Right now there isn't one bit of evidence of any god. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #664 August 28, 2007 QuoteRight but if there is no evidence then there is no reason to believe it exists. Kind of like the boogie man. Do you believe the boogie man exists? "full knowledge" isn't necessary, but some evidence is necessary to believe something exists. Right now there isn't one bit of evidence of any god. Some people have personal evidence that god exists (or perhaps other supernatural things, such as the bogeyman). Even though this may not be enough proof to make others believe, it may be enough proof for the person who experiences it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #665 August 28, 2007 Quote Kind of like the boogie man. Do you believe the boogie man exists? Which boogie are we talking about here? Sometimes I am the boogie man, but I usually don't remember too much the morning after. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #666 August 28, 2007 Then it isn't evidence, it's a personal reason. Many people have what they consider reasons to believe in god, but no one has any evidence of god. ev·i·dence /ˈɛvɪdəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ev-i-duhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -denced, -denc·ing. –noun 1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof. 2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever. 3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects. –verb (used with object) 4. to make evident or clear; show clearly; manifest: He evidenced his approval by promising his full support. 5. to support by evidence: He evidenced his accusation with incriminating letters. —Idiom6. in evidence, plainly visible; conspicuous: The first signs of spring are in evidence. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: 1250–1300; ME (n.) < MF < L évidentia. See evident, -ence] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #667 August 28, 2007 Wow. Freaky post number for a claim there is no evidence of God. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #668 August 28, 2007 QuoteThen it isn't evidence, it's a personal reason. Many people have what they consider reasons to believe in god, but no one has any evidence of god. Another definition of "evidence" from American Heritage: "A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment." From that definition, I think that if people say they have personal evidence of god, then they probably do. It's not scientific evidence that is going to prove anything to the rest of the world, but that is not what most people are claiming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #669 August 28, 2007 Quote Wow. Freaky post number for a claim there is no evidence of God. Hmm... Well, at least now we have evidence of the Antichrist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #670 August 28, 2007 Wow I didn't notice that! It must be a sign from God! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #671 August 28, 2007 It still suggests something physical that can be shared with others and leads to the conclusion that there is a god. Everything that has been suggested as evidence of god has not proven to be evidence of god once the logic has been tested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #672 August 28, 2007 QuoteIt still suggests something physical that can be shared with others and leads to the conclusion that there is a god. Everything that has been suggested as evidence of god has not proven to be evidence of god once the logic has been tested. Who said God is "physical?" JC said God was "spirit." steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #673 August 28, 2007 Semantics. I understand what you're saying, though I still disagree about the use of the word "evidence." But that's one of the limitations of language and communication; everything is open to interpretation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #674 August 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteIt still suggests something physical that can be shared with others and leads to the conclusion that there is a god. Everything that has been suggested as evidence of god has not proven to be evidence of god once the logic has been tested. Who said God is "physical?" JC said God was "spirit." There are a few different problems here. 1. How do you know JC actually said that? All you have is one written account. Not much go on. 2. If God can show himself to Moses, why can't he show himself to us today? 3. If God can do anything then why can't he take on physical form? So many questions with no answers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #675 August 28, 2007 Quote Quote Quote It still suggests something physical that can be shared with others and leads to the conclusion that there is a god. Everything that has been suggested as evidence of god has not proven to be evidence of god once the logic has been tested. Who said God is "physical?" JC said God was "spirit." There are a few different problems here. 1. How do you know JC actually said that? There continues a debate (Jesus Seminar) I rest on those who have good work with ancient documents All you have is one written account. Not much go on. 2. If God can show himself to Moses, why can't he show himself to us today? Well, according to the Bible, he appeared as something (burning bush) to Moses. As to why he can't do something for me or you in particular ... Who is to say he hasn't. To me personally? No, He hasn't, but according to the rarity that manifestation happened in the OT & NT, I'd say it is very very rare. 3. If God can do anything then why can't he take on physical form? He can, he did ... JC So many questions with no answers that satisfy me Fixed it for you. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
