steveorino 7 #1001 September 18, 2007 Quote How silly of me God is punishing people with AIDs for not following his word, I mean after all your god created aids along with everything else 6000 years ago.... Duh..... I don't think the origin/spread of AIDs is quite as "simple" as we like to make it but I think you could be misapplying your theology. Perhaps an alternative look is God encouraging monogomous fidelity to prevent the spread of disease, rather than using the disease as a curse for those who are not monogomous steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #1002 September 18, 2007 How about anyone suggesting that God has anything to do with either the cause or prevention of AIDS is performing some serious theological contortions and badly misapplying their concepts of morality?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1003 September 18, 2007 QuoteHow about anyone suggesting that God has anything to do with either the cause or prevention of AIDS is performing some serious theological contortions and badly misapplying their concepts of morality? To some exent I could accept that (for instance I think JC tells us it is wrong to always assume God's judgment when bad things happen) Luke 13 BTW, JC does imply GOD's judgment is forthcoming -- however, I think he means at the end of our life. While I think a sense of "karma" plays into our world "usually" I believe the game of labeling autrocities as the judgment of God a very dangerous path to go down. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #1004 September 18, 2007 QuoteHow about anyone suggesting that God has anything to do with either the cause or prevention of AIDS is performing some serious theological contortions and badly misapplying their concepts of morality? But you're willing to blame his front man? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #1005 September 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteHow about anyone suggesting that God has anything to do with either the cause or prevention of AIDS is performing some serious theological contortions and badly misapplying their concepts of morality? But you're willing to blame his front man? The Vatican is a real organisation that has a very real influence over many of the worst AIDS hit nations in the world. They use a lot of that influence in stopping people from using things that are quite effective in slowing the spread of the disease. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm not too happy with themDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #1006 September 18, 2007 Quote Quote Matthew 25 The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. . . . the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. Good grief! Here we go again, using a parable to make a point it is not inteneded to make. Hard to believe an omniscient being would use a parable that would so readily be misinterpreted... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1007 September 18, 2007 Quote Hard to believe an omniscient being would use a parable that would so readily be misinterpreted Perhaps there are other reasons ... Matthew 13;10 -17 The disciples came to him [JC] and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #1008 September 18, 2007 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about anyone suggesting that God has anything to do with either the cause or prevention of AIDS is performing some serious theological contortions and badly misapplying their concepts of morality? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But you're willing to blame his front man? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteThe Vatican is a real organisation that has a very real influence over many of the worst AIDS hit nations in the world. They use a lot of that influence in stopping people from using things that are quite effective in slowing the spread of the disease. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm not too happy with them If the Vatican can't enforce their laws of marriage and monogamy upon these people, what makes you think that, if they decided to promote birth control and safe sex methods, the people would pay any more attention to them? What's keeping the world medical community from pushing their agenda? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #1009 September 18, 2007 > What's keeping the world medical community from pushing their agenda? They do. Unfortunately, some groups (like the Bush administration) attempt to stop them from doing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #1010 September 18, 2007 What's keeping the world medical community from pushing their agenda? QuoteThey do. Unfortunately, some groups (like the Bush administration) attempt to stop them from doing that.You're telling me that GWB and a few people behind desks are standing in the way of hundreds of doctors and nurses from telling people to use condums during sex? Riiight! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #1011 September 18, 2007 QuoteIf the Vatican can't enforce their laws of marriage and monogamy upon these people, what makes you think that, if they decided to promote birth control and safe sex methods, the people would pay any more attention to them? On the one hand, you've got something that people really, really, really want to do. In fact doing it is among the most basic instincts that people possess. On the other hand you've got a thing that most people are indifferent about at best. Why would you be surprised that people are far more likely to adhere to the command to not do the second thing than the first thing?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #1012 September 18, 2007 QuoteWhat's keeping the world medical community from pushing their agenda? They do. But in many places and for millions of people the Catholic Church has far more influence and authority. After all, they're the ones telling you that your eternal soul is on the line.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #1013 September 18, 2007 http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Funny/bush-condoms.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #1014 September 18, 2007 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's keeping the world medical community from pushing their agenda? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteThey do. But in many places and for millions of people the Catholic Church has far more influence and authority. After all, they're the ones telling you that your eternal soul is on the line. But they don't have the ability to use that same authority to promote monogamy or curtail illicit sex. Do you see the irony? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #1015 September 18, 2007 Quote QuoteThey do. But in many places and for millions of people the Catholic Church has far more influence and authority. After all, they're the ones telling you that your eternal soul is on the line. But they don't have the ability to use that same authority to promote monogamy or curtail illicit sex. Do you see the irony? "On the one hand, you've got something that people really, really, really want to do. In fact doing it is among the most basic instincts that people possess. On the other hand you've got a thing that most people are indifferent about at best. Why would you be surprised that people are far more likely to adhere to the command to not do the second thing than the first thing?" Pay attention.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #1016 September 18, 2007 >You're telling me that GWB and a few people behind desks are standing >in the way of hundreds of doctors and nurses from telling people to use >condums during sex? Yes. He has withheld money from programs that support condom usage instead of just abstinence. ============= The administration’s policy on international AIDS prevention also misses the mark. A requirement mandates that one-third of the funds spent on prevention programs, approximately $130 million, can only promote abstinence before marriage, and cannot support condom usage. Randall Tobias, U.S. Ambassador for AIDS Coordination, echoed this in a speech he gave before visiting Africa when he said, “Statistics show that condoms really have not been effective.” Given that 2.3 million Africans die annually as a result of AIDS, this was scientifically flawed and morally reprehensible. And it prompted Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni to deem condoms “inappropriate for Ugandans,” despite his country having one of the highest rates of HIV infection in the world. ================ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #1017 September 18, 2007 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They do. But in many places and for millions of people the Catholic Church has far more influence and authority. After all, they're the ones telling you that your eternal soul is on the line. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But they don't have the ability to use that same authority to promote monogamy or curtail illicit sex. Do you see the irony? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote"On the one hand, you've got something that people really, really, really want to do. In fact doing it is among the most basic instincts that people possess. On the other hand you've got a thing that most people are indifferent about at best. Why would you be surprised that people are far more likely to adhere to the command to not do the second thing than the first thing?" Pay attention. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either the people fear for their eternal souls and obey the authority over them across the board, in which case, they will wait until marriage to have sex, stayed married until death do them part, and live a moral, sexually clean life, or they GAF about the authority, do as they please, and suffer the physical consequences of their own actions, which is their own responsibity. You cannot lay the blame for a man's peccadillos at the feet of the church, any more than you can blame the police for not distributing governors to people, so that they donot exceed the speed limit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #1018 September 18, 2007 QuoteRandall Tobias, U.S. Ambassador for AIDS Coordination, echoed this in a speech he gave before visiting Africa when he said, “Statistics show that condoms really have not been effective.” Given that 2.3 million Africans die annually as a result of AIDS, this was scientifically flawed and morally reprehensible. And it prompted Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni to deem condoms “inappropriate for Ugandans,” despite his country having one of the highest rates of HIV infection in the world.How is it that the US gets condemned for putting the smackdown on a punk, but we are supposed to be the world's sexual police? We can't even get the message across in our own country. We even teach it in the govt. schools. BTW, aren't some of these countries the same ones that believe in female curcumcision, so that a woman experiences no sexual pleasure? Do you really think that some edict from the desk of the President of the United States is going to matter one iota to these people? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #1019 September 18, 2007 QuoteEither the people fear for their eternal souls and obey the authority over them across the board, in which case, they will wait until marriage to have sex, stayed married until death do them part, and live a moral, sexually clean life, or they GAF about the authority, do as they please That's absolute bullshit. There is not a church or authority in the world that will have a great success rate in stopping people from sleeping with each other, people just want it too much. Not using condoms on the other hand, that's an easy one to follow and millions do. It gets even easier when the Vatican distributes 'science' pamphlets that say "Hey, condoms don't do anything anyway" in direct contradiction of the unanimous opinion of all the major global health organisation.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #1020 September 18, 2007 Quote Quote How silly of me God is punishing people with AIDs for not following his word, I mean after all your god created aids along with everything else 6000 years ago.... Duh..... I don't think the origin/spread of AIDs is quite as "simple" as we like to make it but I think you could be misapplying your theology. Perhaps an alternative look is God encouraging monogomous fidelity to prevent the spread of disease, rather than using the disease as a curse for those who are not monogomous If your god wanted to “encourage” monogamous fidelity why not simply create us that way, instead of failing to do that, and then scare us into monogamy by creating some heinous disease, you have to admit that is pretty damn cruel… In your world of belief your God is the creator, he created Man and therefore he created Aid’s it is that simple…. Not a very “loving” god is he…----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #1021 September 18, 2007 >but we are supposed to be the world's sexual police? We're not. You asked how Bush was preventing some doctors from advocating condom usage; I told you how he was doing that, by withholding their funding if they try. If you'd like to start a discussion about the sex police, perhaps a thread in Bonfire would be a good way to do that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #1022 September 18, 2007 There's a 16 y/o girl who I've been seeing for a couple years. First she had trich. We had a looooong talk about sex, about sexual pressures, about self-respect, about what STDs are out there, how ya' get 'em, which ones you can get rid of and which ones you can't, how well condoms protect you...and from what....I mean the whole gamut. Then she got herpes....and then chlamydia. Her mother is very involved. They're church people....she's a "believer." She's an A student and a kid for whom her family has had high expectations. Now she's HIV+. Wonder what it is that kept her moving along that path. She knew better. Sometimes people just make stupid choices.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #1023 September 18, 2007 If you'd like to start a discussion about the sex police, perhaps a thread in Bonfire would be a good way to do that! If you're gonna be the sex police, can we have a safe word?-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #1024 September 19, 2007 Quote Quote Quote How silly of me God is punishing people with AIDs for not following his word, I mean after all your god created aids along with everything else 6000 years ago.... Duh..... I don't think the origin/spread of AIDs is quite as "simple" as we like to make it but I think you could be misapplying your theology. Perhaps an alternative look is God encouraging monogomous fidelity to prevent the spread of disease, rather than using the disease as a curse for those who are not monogomous If your god wanted to “encourage” monogamous fidelity why not simply create us that way, instead of failing to do that, and then scare us into monogamy by creating some heinous disease, you have to admit that is pretty damn cruel… In your world of belief your God is the creator, he created Man and therefore he created Aid’s it is that simple…. Not a very “loving” god is he… Monogamous species generally have males and females of equal size. Polygamous species generally have males larger than females. Just like humans.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #1025 September 19, 2007 >can we have a safe word? Sure. Just list the lanthanides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
