I thought Marines were tough...

[RB_Hammer 0]

Jerrod Glass thought so.

Edited to correct spelling in name

"I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late."
Mathew Quigley

[BillyVance 34]

Maybe he went overboard, but Marines typically are the first to enter most conflicts, and by definition are hard-nosed sons of bitches, and are also generally able to stand up to torture if captured, because their drill instructors were damned tough.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[NickDG 23]

When I went through Marine boot camp in 1971 getting thumbed-on was pretty routine. Not to mention the verbal abuse. Over the years they've had some incidents so over time they've changed some things.

On bad incident was the DI that marched his platoon into a Parris Island swamp in the middle of the night and a few of the recruits drowned. (You have to understand you'd walk into a fire if a DI ordered it).

Some of the punishments meted out were pretty creative, like having to smoke a cigarette with a metal bucket over your head (even if you didn't smoke) or like one time I was made to spend a freezing cold night in a metal dumpster full of garbage with the lid closed. The infraction, that got me that punishment was while standing at attention I was caught "eyeballing" the area. My fellow Marines will know what that is.

I saw some of the weakest among us abused terribly both mentally and physically but we thought nothing of it. Our mindset at the time was if you wanted to be called a Marine you either "hacked it or packed it." And it was the only way to join the long line of brothers who preceded us.

I know nowadays a DI cannot even curse at you, let alone knock you on your ass. When I joined the Marine Corps their recruiting slogan was, "We didn’t promise you a Rose Garden!" And the Corps is still the only service that doesn't pretend it's all about YOU!

And I hope to hell that never changes . . .

NickD 1st Mar Div
1971-1975

[ECoastSurfer 0]

Marines are tough, more than civilians know .... but recruits are not Marines. We all took a beating in Basic, but it takes years in the Fleet to become hard, polished and capable of leading others.
Semper Fi Devil Dogs!

[JoeBobinNC 0]

The days of being able to strike recuits is over. The Corps has evolved past that. For the most part that is a good thing. Without the change in attitudes that have been made of the years, Marine Corps Recruit Training would be nothing but a haven for bullies today. The only draw back is that maybe it takes longer to identify the ones who don't belong in the Corps.

S/F
JB
Camp Al Taqaddum, Iraq

It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.

[shermanator 4]

yeah, thats because, you forget, if they are ever captured in the line of duty, they will not be tortured or hit or anything of that sort... they will be kept in 5 star hotels until negotiations for their return are made. *end sarcasm*

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Kiki32 1]

270 years in prison.

Poetry don't work on whores.

[ryoder 1,590]

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I know nowadays a DI cannot even curse at you, ...

Huh? Sounds like a remake of "Full Metal Jacket" today would have R. Lee Ermey biting his tongue.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Dougjumper 0]

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Marines are tough, more than civilians know .... but recruits are not Marines

Thats right and I agree sometimes these DI's step a little out of line. The main part is you gotta break them out of being a civilian. I hear a lot of the higher ranks that served around the time I did and they speak of babysitting too many now days. You know like they say in the Army Jody's done got your girl and gone. Regardless there still is various abuse that happens behind the scenes as well. This kind of stuff just breaks morale and does nothing to encourage the soldier.

[JoeBobinNC 0]

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yeah, thats because, you forget, if they are ever captured in the line of duty, they will not be tortured or hit or anything of that sort... they will be kept in 5 star hotels until negotiations for their return are made. *end sarcasm*

That's what SERE is for smart guy.

It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.

[shermanator 4]

excuse my ignorance, but what is SERE?

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[JoeBobinNC 0]

Stands for Survival, Evasion, Resistance (to interrogation) and Escape training. Service members are put in a senario that teaches all four skills.

A drill instructor beating recruits in boot camp does nothing to train a person how to behave in a POW situation. It is possible that captured female service members may be raped while captive. Should that also be allowed in boot camp and considered good training?

It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote:

"Some of the alleged abuses resemble fraternity pranks, such as forcing a recruit to jump into a trash can, while others suggest stern physical punishment..."

So what's the problem?

Sheesh. DI's made us do all kinds of crazy things when I went through boot camp in '72, but they didn't physically beat us. As for "physical punishment", that was just the typical "drop and give me 20 push-ups" type stuff. It was never hands-on abuse.

They could get very creative, however.

Once when the whole platoon was to be punished, we were marched randomly around a large field, for no apparent reason. Then we found out, they were looking for a patch of sand spurs, in which to make us do situps.

I once had to stand at attention for about 30 minutes with an M14 trigger group hanging from my lip.

Yeah, those kinds of things hurt a bit. But I'm not sure I'd call it abuse.

As for the physical exercise - you can quit any time you want, and all they can do is yell at you. When you've reached your limit of exhaustion, and can go no further, they can't force you to continue against your will.

We had one screw-up in the platoon who got creative in return. The DI would order him to do jumping jacks until he told him to stop, while the DI went into his office. The recruit figured out how to make the sound of someone doing jumping jacks, without actually doing them. So it was hilarious to watch, and the only trick was starting up again for real as the DI came back out of the office, so he wouldn't get caught faking it.

The things we went through in boot camp were worse then what some of the namby pamby liberals now cry about happening to terrorist prisoners.

[NickDG 23]

>>namby pamby liberals
Sheesh, (to use your word) was that slam necessary?

You sound like a "hollywood" Marine . . .

Try that god forsaken island where no one will hear you scream . . .

NickD BASE 194

[billvon 3,070]

>namby pamby liberals

And thus the thread moves from Bonfire to SC.

John, do not post political stuff in Bonfire. Your one warning.

[steveorino 7]

I was never a Marine. I was SF though. Granted Army BCT is pretty lame compared to Marine boot, but I'd wager my SF training was one up on most.

One thing I don't get is why a DI would have to hit anyone to either get his point across or the intimidating factor in? Compensation for a small one maybe?

My SF instructors barely raised their voices at me, and when I put guys through prephase (old school SFAS) I never yelled or struck anyone, but believe me I was not known as a "nice guy" I don't get the reason for it ...

steveOrino

[Gawain 0]

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Camp Al Taqaddum, Iraq

You're over at TQ huh? My Battalion staged there before flying into Ramadi. They have a good DFAC...still get lobster tails once a week?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[airkid 0]

well... i've went through bootcamp i think a little more recently than some of you salt dogs....
and it sounds like to me this sgt. glass character did nothing wrong... i mean four recruits going UA... sounds about right... and making some recruit jump into a trashcan is not abuse.... we've all done it... we all know when we enlist that we're gonna have to go through bootcamp where we will get yelled at, CUSSED AT, have to do pushups and situps and mountain climbers and all of that other stuff until it hurts and your muscles seize up.... you might get slapped in the face from time to time.... if you can't handle than you're not fit to be a marine... hey sorry .... not everyone can make it in the corps... it wasn't designed for everyone.

[JoeBobinNC 0]

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Camp Al Taqaddum, Iraq

You're over at TQ huh? My Battalion staged there before flying into Ramadi. They have a good DFAC...still get lobster tails once a week?

Sometimes its crab legs too. It's amazing how different two people's experence in the same war can be. (Mine v. Yours)

It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.

[airkid 0]

what battallion are you with?

[gonzalesna 0]

I'll tell ya what... I'm about to reenlist and I've had a trouble-free first term with the exception of 1 hiccup. During my first year in, I was late by 45 minutes. I'd gladly take an old-school ass whoopin over the 1/2 month's pay forfiture and 6 month non-rec. Best to keep your nose clean, but I'm just sayin'... For the little things, I'd rather have it as a knuckle sammich than a little piece of paper that'll follow me around for the rest of my career.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[BillyVance 34]

gonzales and other Marines, I thought you guys would appreciate this one, though you've probably heard it a thousand times:

A young Marine officer was severely wounded in the head by a grenade, but the only visible permanent injury was to both of his ears which had to be amputated. Since his hearing wasn't impaired he remained in the Marine Corps and rose to the rank of Major General. He was, however, very sensitive about his appearance.

One Day the General was interviewing three Marines, prospects for his headquarters staff.

The first was a Naval Aviator Captain. It was a great interview. At the end of the interview the General asked him, "Do you notice anything different about me?" The Captain answered, "Why, yes, Sir, I couldn't help but notice that you have no ears." The General got very angry at his lack of tact and threw him out.

The second interview was with a logistics Lieutenant, and he was even better. The General then asked him the same question, "Do you notice anything different about me?" He replied sheepishly, "Well, Sir, you have no ears." The General threw him out also.

The third interview was with an infantry Gunny Sergeant. He was articulate, looked extremely sharp and seemed to know more than the two officers combined. The General wanted this guy, and went ahead with the same question, "Do you notice anything different about me?" To his surprise the Sergeant said, "Yes, Sir, you wear contact lenses." The general was very impressed and thought, what an incredibly observant NCO, and he didn't mention my ears. "And how do you know that I wear contacts?" the General asked. "Well, Sir," the gunny replied, "it's pretty hard to wear glasses with no fuckin' ears.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[airkid 0]

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To his surprise the Sergeant said, "Yes, Sir, you wear contact lenses."

funny joke but every gunny i know would choke someone out if they called them a sergeant....

[AlRedler 0]

What is it with the US military and mindless brutality? The UK special forces have nothing like that level of abuse during training and the SAS, Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines are among the best soldiers in the world. Look at Afghanistan where the UK forces in Helmand are killing a lot of Taliban for very few casualties, and the Falklands.

There is a diference between the two countries. The US soldier is taught simply to obey, the UK soldier is taught to use more individual initiative from an early stage. Discipline is still instilled. I was a para and whilst the training was very tough, there was never any abusive behaviour or mindless shouting to try and break our wills. The training was hard enough that those who couldn't make it simply dropped out. They weren't even ridiculed for doing so. The ethos of the regiment wass instilled by inspiration not fear. Those that got through were already prepared to be elite soldiers and went on to learn by experience.

My dad was a British Army officer who did a 2 year posting teaching Intelligence to US forces in Arizona. He was astonished that every letter that left that base (of a couple of thousand people) had to be signed personally by the base commander. How does that develop individual decision making?

Of course the US, and especially the Marines, have done great things militarily. My point is that the brutal trainng is unnecessary and probably counter productive. Train recruits more effectively and maybe they will get a better quality of soldier.

[gonzalesna 0]

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What is it with the US military and mindless brutality? The UK special forces have nothing like that level of abuse during training and the SAS, Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines are among the best soldiers in the world. Look at Afghanistan where the UK forces in Helmand are killing a lot of Taliban for very few casualties, and the Falklands.

There is a diference between the two countries. The US soldier is taught simply to obey, the UK soldier is taught to use more individual initiative from an early stage. Discipline is still instilled. I was a para and whilst the training was very tough, there was never any abusive behaviour or mindless shouting to try and break our wills. The training was hard enough that those who couldn't make it simply dropped out. They weren't even ridiculed for doing so. The ethos of the regiment wass instilled by inspiration not fear. Those that got through were already prepared to be elite soldiers and went on to learn by experience.

My dad was a British Army officer who did a 2 year posting teaching Intelligence to US forces in Arizona. He was astonished that every letter that left that base (of a couple of thousand people) had to be signed personally by the base commander. How does that develop individual decision making?

Of course the US, and especially the Marines, have done great things militarily. My point is that the brutal trainng is unnecessary and probably counter productive. Train recruits more effectively and maybe they will get a better quality of soldier.

it's more fun our way.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.