The Villification of Michael Vick and our own Cultural Ignorance

[sv3n 0]

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http://www.hsus.org/acf/news/vote_video_contest.htm

bet you can't keep a dry eye watching these videos....
TK

I have a huge justice-gene in my body and the third video definitely hit home.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[Darius11 12]

great post and we are 100% in agreement.

However it still does not change are lack of comprehension or in most cases even the attempted to understand different cultures.


I can see duckwaters point.
I think our court of public opinion is flawed.

Please understand that most people are not educated lawyers who hang out with an absolutely different culture during there youth. You are not the majority my friend.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[78RATS 0]

Vick showed more class than the ex AG today.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[jlmiracle 7]

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Vick showed more class than the ex AG today.

How's that? Because he found Jesus? (though I didn't know he was lost), or because he kinda apologized for being immature, but didnt' really apologize for the torture of the dogs?

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Darius11 12]

my ass has more class then Gonzales

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Zipp0 1]

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Vick showed more class than the ex AG today.

How's that? Because he found Jesus? (though I didn't know he was lost), or because he kinda apologized for being immature, but didnt' really apologize for the torture of the dogs?

j

Him saying he is immature sounds more like an excuse that taking responsibility. I'd respect him more if he said that he is sadistic and needed some serious help.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 3,008]

>I'd respect him more if he said that he is sadistic and needed some
>serious help.

Eh, then someone would say he's jumping on the mental illness bandwagon and is going for the sympathy angle. He's guilty, he admitted it and apologized - good for him, saves us some court time.

[Richards 0]

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In a recent pole what percentage of Americans thought that Sadam Hussein was responsible for 9-11?

I would be quite surprised if the percentage was high. I have yet to speak to anyone who felt he was involved.

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What percentage doesn’t know where Iraq or Afghanistan is on the map?

Again, I think (or at least hope) you are underestimating the average person.

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I think we lack courage or understanding to see any thing other then what we are used too.

While most people will have inherent biases, I strongly disagree with the idea that most refuse to see something that disagrees with their pre-conceived notions. There will always be some hardliners who only see what they want to see, and some people take a little more convincing than others but most people will be open minded if faced with a solid argument.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Zipp0 1]

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>I'd respect him more if he said that he is sadistic and needed some
>serious help.

Eh, then someone would say he's jumping on the mental illness bandwagon and is going for the sympathy angle. He's guilty, he admitted it and apologized - good for him, saves us some court time.

Being sadistic is not a mental illness, it's a character flaw. And the only reason he pleaded is that he knew he was fried. He pleaded hoping for a lesser sentence.

His apology is hollow. He is only sorry because he got caught.

I'll bet you $20 that he starts some kind of pit bull rescue foundation sometime in the near future.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 3,008]

>I would be quite surprised if the percentage was high.

A recent poll showed 41% of americans thought that "Saddam Hussein’s regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001." 48% of FOX viewers thought the same thing.

In the same poll, most people could not identify Saudi Arabia as the source of most of the 9/11 hijackers. (57%)

>I strongly disagree with the idea that most refuse to see something
>that disagrees with their pre-conceived notions. There will always be some
>hardliners who only see what they want to see . . .

I find that these make up a large percentage of people out there. More than 50%? Not sure, but it's not a small number. Just try talking to a fundamentalist about evolution.

[billvon 3,008]

>And the only reason he pleaded. . .

Right, whatever reason he pleaded/apologized was bad, because he's bad. We got that.

>He is only sorry because he got caught.

I know several people who did illegal stuff, got caught, and really were sorry. Is that the case here? I have no idea; I don't know the guy.

[unformed 0]

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And the only reason he pleaded is that he knew he was fried. He pleaded hoping for a lesser sentence.

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I am in a 'secret society' to which a local judge also belongs. If I go to trial for some reason down the road, I'd be willing to bet he helps me out.

It's okay to use a friend who's a judge to get a lesser sentence, but it's not okay to apologize to get a lesser sentence?

Nice.

This ad space for sale.

[Richards 0]

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>I would be quite surprised if the percentage was high.

A recent poll showed 41% of americans thought that "Saddam Hussein’s regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001." 48% of FOX viewers thought the same thing.

Staggering. I guess I stand corrected on that one. My only defence on my mistake is that nobody I know beleives that, and I associate with pretty average people.

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In the same poll, most people could not identify Saudi Arabia as the source of most of the 9/11 hijackers. (57%)

Again that is frightenning. I don't know what to say. How can someone possibly not know that?

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>I strongly disagree with the idea that most refuse to see something
>that disagrees with their pre-conceived notions. There will always be some
>hardliners who only see what they want to see . . .

I find that these make up a large percentage of people out there. More than 50%? Not sure, but it's not a small number. Just try talking to a fundamentalist about evolution.

Then that is a pretty sad statement about our society. I really thought better of the average person.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[popsjumper 2]

I'm sittin' here laughing my ass off at all you guys claiming "culture" and "product of environment" as viable excuses for screwing up...like the screwer doesn't have any control over his actions.



You don't like the laws as written? Get off your lazy ass and DO something like vote in some other clown who will change them for you...or, live by the rules as they stand.

Vick screwed up.
Vick gets screwed.
Vick's fault.
End of story.


Lawrocket...you lawyers don't need smart people in order to keep your job and make money. Nay, the stupid ones provide most of your income...do you really need examples of that? Start with the bozos who do stupid shit and sue the manufacturer/service provider/etc., etc., etc.
(It wasn't MY fault! It was HIS/THEIR fault!)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Zenister 0]

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Replying to the last post only because the owners of this site have yet to develop a quick post option and it really ticks me off that I have to page back to the OP.

you know you can simply remove the name from the subject field??? ala this post? yes it still threads to you, but do people actually read in threaded anymore? that is so 80s..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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Had I not found myself in that situation of being very good friends with two of them I would not know this. You cannot just seek it out.

not true.. you just have to find opportunity..example an indian family moved down stairs.. every day the most amazing smells came from their place.. one day i had an opportunity to help them unload some heavy furniture.. they tried to pay me, I asked instead if they would show me how to cook some of the amazing curry i had been drolling over...

i was a regular guest from there on out..

you can Seek anything you wish to know.. most are to lazy to bother...

"To bad ignorance isn't painful." no one would willfully remain so....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Erroll 80]

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I wish to hell that Nelson Mandela would weigh in on this, I think he has the stature to clear the air on this problem. A man who spent 25 years busting rocks in prison might be able to tell his own people to knock it the fuck off and stop killing dogs. .

Just who might these people be, and what does his time in prison have to with the killing of dogs by an American sportsman?

[crwtom 0]

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I also feel for him. I try to educate myself on someone’s culture, education and environment before passing judgment for anything.

just curious ... in what culture would it be a tradition or ancient custom to electrocute and suffocate dogs?


Cheers, T

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[freeflybella 0]

And now DMX.

After being charged with 13 counts of animal cruelty in NJ (2002) he even did a PSA against it.

I don't think the media attention is overkill AT ALL. People are realizing that it's not small pockets of inbred rednecks - it's "respected" and "idolized" people in the spotlight.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[masterrig 1]

I don't feel one bit sorry for Michael Vick! He knew what he was doing was illegal and did it any how. He got caught... bottom line! Now, like everyone else who gets 'caught', tries to weasel out of it. I've never been to a cock, dog, horse or any other animal fight but, I have seen films of them and they are just plain ugly. Trying to pass this kind of activity off on 'culture' is B.S. Here, in the U.S.A., it's illegal. These events are for one thing and one thing only... to make money. I have no sympathy at all for anyone who is involved in such activities and they get caught. They break the law...they pay the price. Once again, like other 'celebrities', Vick is using his 'celebrity' to get-out of paying the price for his actions. Trying to 'sugar-coat' it and playing the 'race card' is ludicrous. Also, it's not the dog... it's the owner as to how that animal behaves. I'm just tired of celebrities getting special treatment. You can be rich... you can be poor and still, be a jerk.


Chuck

[lawrocket 3]

Sounds to me like you had the opprtunity thrust upon you. You didn't go to some Indian family and ask to be taught how to make a proper curry. The opportunity was there, though, and you took it. You didn't go looking.

Same situation. You were ignorant of some things prior to that event. But an opportunity arose. Your ignorance of the finer points of curry preparation was not your choice - you simply had not had the opportunity. You didn't actively seek out good curry - an oppoirtunity for learning presented itself and you took advantage.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,008]

>You cannot just seek it out.

Sure you can.

I spent a month in Africa to see how people lived there. I've been to Barrow, Alaska to see how the primarily eskimo population lives in a town that's being changed radically by global warming. I've gone to Ireland, France, Belgium, Amsterdam, Italy, Luxembourg, Germany and Spain (most of those by bike) to see what it's like there. And while there - especially while biking - I got a chance to meet people, see what their food was like, hear about what they thought about the US and the world in general.

A few examples -

I ended up meeting a woman in a bar in Ireland and spent some time with her. We talked about terrorism and crime, and she mentioned that she was worried about going to the US because of all the crime and terrorism there. Drive by shootings! WTC attacks! Drug trade!

One night we were going to meet at a restaurant and she called me to change plans. "They had another bombing near there, so maybe we should go to XX instead." I learned a lot about how people fear the new and different, even when they experience the very things they fear in their homes.

In Africa I met a family that I ended up spending a lot of time with. They had four kids - Anabo, Ali, Zaku and Mara, ages 5 to 20. Objectively some of the poorest people I've ever met, and subjectively some of the happiest. They weren't just ignorant, either. When I told them I was a skydiver, they pantomined a skydive (including pulling from an ROL!) and spent the rest of the day running around making jet airplane noises. Most of them spoke three languages - Zarma (their native tongue) French (the official language of Niger) and English (their teachers told them they should learn it.) Heck, they spoke better English than I spoke French.

And I had thought that people like that were ignorant and miserable.

[Shotgun 1]

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Replying to the last post only because the owners of this site have yet to develop a quick post option and it really ticks me off that I have to page back to the OP.

you know you can simply remove the name from the subject field??? ala this post? yes it still threads to you, but do people actually read in threaded anymore? that is so 80s..

Or... If you're at the last post, then it only takes one click to get back to the first post... And it's pretty obvious that everyone who posts on here has time for that one extra click.

And to get back on subject... I don't know much about the Vick case, but this thread reminds me of a news article I recently read about people trying to get a horse slaughterhouse shut down. I didn't get the impression that any of these people were concerned about other slaughterhouses (cows, chickens, pigs, etc.), so I thought it was interesting how we can be so appalled at the killing of one kind of animal while the killing of other kinds of animals is just an everyday thing that we pay little attention to. (Not judging anyone; I'm guilty of the same thing.)

[Richards 0]

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And to get back on subject... I don't know much about the Vick case, but this thread reminds me of a news article I recently read about people trying to get a horse slaughterhouse shut down. I didn't get the impression that any of these people were concerned about other slaughterhouses (cows, chickens, pigs, etc.), so I thought it was interesting how we can be so appalled at the killing of one kind of animal while the killing of other kinds of animals is just an everyday thing that we pay little attention to. (Not judging anyone; I'm guilty of the same thing.)

[Shotgun 1]

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And to get back on subject... I don't know much about the Vick case, but this thread reminds me of a news article I recently read about people trying to get a horse slaughterhouse shut down. I didn't get the impression that any of these people were concerned about other slaughterhouses (cows, chickens, pigs, etc.), so I thought it was interesting how we can be so appalled at the killing of one kind of animal while the killing of other kinds of animals is just an everyday thing that we pay little attention to. (Not judging anyone; I'm guilty of the same thing.)

I don't see this as directly comparable. The issue you describe is one of placing a higher value on one animals life than another. The issue here is one of needless animal cruelty purely for entertainment purposes which cannot be compared to the neccessary slaughter (presumaby as humane as possible) of animals for consumption or products.