Pregnant: What is right?

[RandomDood 0]

Quote

Quote

Thank you for your opinion. Can you explain the '2-3 years, no motherly separation' to me please. I am not familiar with this as she is not planning to breast feed.

Also, I am not voluntarily being moved out of state. This is not my decision, so I am not able to 'stay put'. I could definitely see if I was choosing to move away; especially if I was choosing to move away to get away from the mother or my responsibilities, but that is not the case here. I am not running away, nor trying to.

And I believe I can establish a bond with our child without being in a particular state. And I can help raise him the rest of his life by physically being there.

And I do not think that I am a total stranger. I am the father of the child. If that is my chance to build a relationship with our child, then I will take that chance. And I am not 'taking the child' at all. Why do you think that I am taking the child from the mother. I am not trying to never come back or anything. I just would like to spend the same amount of time raising him as she does. I think the child will benefit from both our experiences and what we both have to offer him.

The first 2-3 years of a child's life are the most important years in developing attachments, developing trust, developing personality, etc.

At 6 months old - a child has NO idea what relationship any person has to him other than what is consistently present. If you move out of state - and then come take the baby from the one consistent person in it's life - you are esssentially ARE a stranger to him - and you would then be breaking that bond between him and his mother.

Of course, he would then form an attachment to you but your plan of switching out primary attachment figures every 6 months presents a pattern of breaking and reforming bonds that could impact his ability to form lasting relationships, build trust, build self-esteem for the rest of his life.

Trust me, no court will allow your scenario to occur. If you move out of state, you will have very limited visitation until the child is older.

Before haggling with your ex girlfriend over 'what's fair' - do some real research into infant development and parenting. Your baby deserves the best outcome in this unfortunate situation. Fight for that.

Also, urge her to breastfeed.

Thank you for clarifying. I understand what you are saying now and see where you are coming from.

But I take offense to the comment that 'before haggling with my ex girlfriend over 'what's fair' - do some real research into infant development and parenting'. That is assuming that I have not already done extensive research. Who in their right mind would NOT research every avenue of approach to this? That is what I am currently doing; gathering information. I don't think you should just jump to the conclusion that I haven't done so before creating this post.

[RandomDood 0]

Quote

If the mother doesn't have a decent job there and the father does have a decent job lined up elsewhere, I'd suggest that the best solution might be for him to pay to move the mother to where his work is so that they can raise the child as a team, rather than as "combatants".

Blues,
Dave

This I absolutely agree with. This is what I offered, but she is unwilling to move unless I choose to be with her; in a relationship. Which I am not willing to agree to. I do not think I should be forced into being in a relationship I do not want. And I cannot just tell her, 'yeah, we'll be together' and move her out there and then dump her. That isn't right either.

[beowulf 1]

Just my 2 cents. I think you should just bite the bullet and get it all done legally. If you don't do it now you probably end up having to do it later and it might not be amicable thing. Trying to do the notorized thing doesn't seem like it will last and most likely won't hold up in court.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

This is what I offered, but she is unwilling to move unless I choose to be with her; in a relationship. Which I am not willing to agree to. I do not think I should be forced into being in a relationship I do not want. And I cannot just tell her, 'yeah, we'll be together' and move her out there and then dump her. That isn't right either.

One of the very best reasons I have seen in a long time for everyone having thought this thru a tad more before jumping into a freinds with benefits that has turned into a life long commitment to a child.

[wmw999 2,534]

You've gotten a lot of good advice. Particularly the part about needing a lawyer. It's for both of your protection. The sooner you do it, the less angry you'll be at each other, and the cheaper it will be. Really. Take mediation if it's offered, and seriously consider going to a family counselor for a short time with her.

There's going to be a fresh new human being looking to you for support in the near future, unless you and she choose to abort or adopt. And it's probably too late to abort by the time you write to dz.com. Adoption really should be considered as a good option, but you still want the lawyer in there.

But you and she should hammer out your agreement between each other (there may well be a dispute resolution center in your area where you can talk to a mediator on your own), then take it to a lawyer so that it can be hammered out with the bells and whistles.

If you guys agree to it together ahead of time, judges and lawyers are far less likely to disagree.

As far as what's right, what's right is that this new human being get the opportunity to be loved and nurtured, preferably by both parents, as regularly as possible, in a stable environment, where they can love both parents without feeling guilty about it.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Conundrum 1]

Quote

Abortion

get on with your lives and chalk it up to experience

Agreed. Either that or give it up for adoption. Let the child go to a two person, stable home.

I don't think it's right to switch the kid from home to home every other week, month, day, whatever. It's not stable at all, and on top of that, the child will probably be put in daycare too.

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

I actually intended to come to an agreement that we can get notarized. Therefore, the courts don't have anything to really do with it. As long as we both agree on how WE want to do it; not how the court wants us to.

Which means jack shit in the real world. A Notarized agreement between the two of isn’t worth the paper it is written on. I too remember being young and Idealistic. I thought exactly as you did. I lived this life starting 17 years ago.

I now have a beautiful 15 (almost 16 as she reminds me on a daily basis) daughter that I had the pleasure of watching grow and being part of her life.
Taking her mother to court to legally establish myself as her father and stand up for my rights as a Father was something I should have done much sooner than I did.(My Daughter was almost 3 by the time I any real legal rights other than writing a check. Those 3 years were hell as she I had no rights at all other than whatever her mother felt like at that moment. Do yourself and your child this favor as it will save MUCH fighting/arguing with her mother once the rules are spelled out in black and white and enforceable by court order. Otherwise, Just send a check every month and stay out of the Childs life. Being a Father is an all or nothing deal.

Never forget the old saying, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Don’t think for a second that she would not use the child to get even with you for leaving her (Human Nature, It happens in most situations like this). Do not let your child be put in that situation. Get a lawyer, Work out an agreeable custody arrangement and get it court ordered.

You also must consider that eventually the mother will want to get married. Would you like her new Boyfriend to be able to adopt your child without your consent or atleast a chance to stand up in court? If you do not take action, it is very possible.

And I still don’t understand this "I have to move" bit. This is a Free country. You don’t have to do anything but die and pay taxes, Everything else is a choice.
If you choose to be a father, Then you stay nearby and be as much of your Childs life as possible. If not, then do not confuse the child.

As for the comment about the Mother always being the better parent, I agree that in most situations that is the mother (In my case it unquestionably was), But I have seen so many kids that would be better off living with their fathers. The child should be with the best parent regardless of their genitalia.

[mnealtx 0]

Well said, Jay.

Another thought for the OP, based on some news stories in the recent past - you MAY want to consider having a paternity test run, if y'all weren't in an exclusive relationship (and as I recall, you didn't want a relationship at all). I'm *NOT* saying this is the case, just putting it forward as a possibility.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shermanator 4]

kill the pregnant lady. that will end your problems.. be sure to hide the body well enough that it won't be found. and don't leave any evidence that will lead back to you.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

This is what I offered, but she is unwilling to move unless I choose to be with her; in a relationship.

Sounds very reasonable to me. why should she uproot her life and leave her family and friends for you?

She surely knows that she will be the custodial parent and will need help from her family and friends if she is going to be a single mother.

You leave her no option but to stay put.

Quote

I do not think I should be forced into being in a relationship I do not want.

A little late now. You ARE in a Relationship with her for atleast the next 20 or so years like it or not. Now the question is what can YOU make of that relationship?

She holds all the cards right now. The courts will side with her on custody. She will be able to move anywhere, anytime she wants and take the child. This is reality. If your goal is to be the best father you can be under the circumstances, You will have to be willing to follow her, It will NOT be the other way around.
No, it doesnt seem fair but that is the way it is and you must be prepared to deal with that.

I am not trying to scare you (or maybe I am.) I just think you need to realize what you about to get into. It is a tough situation for everyone involved and the only one that should really matter is the child. Try to forget about everything except what is truly in the Childs best interest.

It took me many years before I realized that squabbling over petty details with her mother was rarely in my daughters best interest. I remember huge arguments with her mother over stuff that I now see as trivial like Hunting and Fishing. In my family these things are very much a part of our heritage and both male and female children learned these things from a very young age. Her mother was adamantly opposed to our daughter participating in killing anything. We fought over this for years before I realized that maybe I should just ask my daughter when she was old enough if she wanted to learn these things. She did not. That was a lot of wasted anger and hostility between her mother and I over something that just didn’t really matter in the end.
When it came to Drag Racing (another family tradition) she wanted to race, So I fought for it with all I had. She raced Junior Dragsters for 4 years and was Ranked 6th in the nation at one time by the NHRA in her division. She wanted that so it was important to make that happen for her. Hunting and fishing was something I wanted but she did not so it was not important.
You will face situation like this down the road, Remember to always put the Child best interest first. Not always as simple and easy as it sounds.

[freeflybella 0]

Quote

As for the comment about the Mother always being the better parent...

The rest of your post was pretty spot on. And well stated. Except for 2 things. It's NOT necessarily true that the mother will use the child to "get even" for him leaving her. We have no idea what what with the mother in this situation. Period.

And then to be clear - I think you were referring to my comment that all things being equal the baby should remain with the mother...I never made a judgment as to who is the better parent. I said "all things being equal"...

A baby should not be taken from its mother unless absolutely necessary. Divorce or breaking up is not absolutely necessary.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Derekbox 0]

abort abort abort

[chykynlyps 0]

Step 1: MAKE SURE THE CHILD IS ACTUALLY YOURS!!!!!!!
Step 2: LEARN HOW TO WRAP YOUR PECKER.....IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT GET STERILIZED!
After that i got nothing other than pack a bowl and celebrate the impending birth of (what i am assuming is ) your first child

Bear Down Chicago Bears!
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson

[Guest]

"Isn't it funny how people fall in love and get married...just 'cause they had a few kids?" -- Judy Tenuta

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Skyrad 0]

The most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.

~ Henry Ward Beecher



Sherman made the terrible discovery that men make about their fathers sooner or later...that the man before him was not an aging father but a boy, a boy much like himself, a boy who grew up and had a child of his own and, as best he could, out of a sense of duty and, perhaps love, adopted a role called Being a Father so that his child would have something mythical and infinitely important: a Protector, who would keep a lid on all the chaotic and catastrophic possibilities of life.

~ Tom Wolfe, The Bonfire of the Vanities


Be that man.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Are you asking about abortion as to keeping the child? Or are you asking should you two get married?

I am asking for opinions of everything this entails. I wasn't specifically asking any questions really. I intentionally left it as general as I could in order to get a wide variety of opinions. For example, if you feel I should get an abortion, I would like to know that. Or if you feel we should get married, I'd like to know that too. I hope this helps.

Specifically though, I decided not to go for the abortion and I am not going to marry her.

This is a recipe for disaster. Marriage would be foolish if you are not in love and would only be doing it because of the pregnancy. Abortion is the only clean exit for everyone involved and she apparently must be against that. (Which is her decision by the way - you have no authority in that call).

You do realize the two of you are setting up some future human for failure. People can bomb away at me if they like, but to plan a broken home for a child is ludicrous. Go ahead and do the web searches for statistics on kids from single-parent or split homes. They are so much more likely to have problems, and so much less likely to be happy and healthy that it is mind boggling to me that anyone would actually plan that out ahead of time.

The two of you ought to drop your pride or whatever selfish principles are causing you to do "the right thing" for yourself and think long and hard about the path you are about to set for some yet unborn human.

I'll acknowledge beforehand all the anecdotes people are going to throw out about how they or someone else beat those odds. Maybe you pull it off; but that is not likely. I've seen 3 nieces go thru this with a total of 6 kids. One of the six has some sort of chance, only because of radical intervention and contribution from grandparents. The other 5 are getting sucker-punched for life by the selfish desires of their immature parents.

Good luck to your child; that kid is really going to need it in order to overcome your humungous mistake.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

I finally have a straight forward question:

I have proposed to her that when the child is born, she take the child for the first six months, then I fly back, pick up the child, take the child to my state, and keep the child for six months, then fly the child back to her and let her keep it for six months. (i.e. 50/50)

Is this right?

Is this fair to her?

Are you hearing yourself?

Is this fair? For whom?

Yeah, that sounds like a fabulous way to grow up. Shuttled back and forth every few months between completely different environments. Have the two of you considered the child in any of this, or is it all about you?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[jimmytavino 16]

Quote

abort abort abort

sadly..... this may be about the most sensible suggestion....

our world today is getting to be a MESS.....
and children conceived outta 5 minutes of physical selfishness, are only adding to our social difficulties......

since 'dis-concieving' is now a legally protected option..... ( NOT my doing, but the supreme courts')... you may HAVE to consider it...

How does SHE feel about it???
since it IS a tough subject to broach...

trouble is..... LOTS of sad, lonely unfullfilled girls/women.... think that a baby... a BABY for God's sake .. will be the ANSWER to all their problems... and in fact many single sad and troubled women,,, persue that path.. despite the common sense reality,, that it may NOT be best...for ANYONE involved....

Children are a HUGE.... huge. responsibility... and really only should come from the joint union, legally and religiously of the man and woman...

other.."situations",, especially ones where there is no love, and even no respect for one another... CANNOT be healthy for the child...
what a sad thing... How does this girl feel about it???

... for those who say, we should not resort to a medical procedure at the beginning of life,,,, I ask,, what about all the extreme medical procedures we resort to at the END of one's life....??? Isn't that also "Playing God".....

the brutal reality of this day and age.. is one whereby, children raised with many many things stacked against them.. especially absentee parents, a resentful mother, and a father who feels like he was 'roped' into fatherhood... will struggle struggle struggle......all their lives...

sad............
good luck...
j

[freeflybella 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

That actually *IS* better for the child in most cases - a 50/50 custody split is *very* rare and I've only ever heard of it in cases where both parents are living very close to each other. The courts see it as a complete upheaval of the child's life (which it is) and will normally grant primary custody to one parent (usually the mother, unless she is unfit) and visitation to the other parent (alternate weekends, summer vacation, etc).

Please help me to understand why that it is better for only one parent to have custody, as oppose to both having equal custody. This is something I have not been able to really grasp yet. (not being sarcastic)

Because it creates the most stable home environment for the child.

There are 2 types of "custody" - parental rights and physical custody.

You, as the biological father will almost always have 'parental rights". That is, you have the right to go to court and ask for visitation, for the ability to jointly parent your child and the ability to financially support him. The courts will almost never sever your parental rights. Even if you're a total loser, you will get many many chances to fuck up, fuck up your kid and re-prove yourself. In that sense, you and she have 50/50 custody.

Then there is physical custody - which is where the child spends most of his time. If you want to establish joint physical custody you cannot move out of state. Period. I have no idea what kind of arrangement a court will order but I'd be surprised if you'll get overnights for a long long while. If you move away, you be responsible for travel and visitation will mostly likely start out as very limited and supervised, possibly at your expense as well.

Joint physical isn't totally unreasonable as long as you and the mother are equally known to the child from the beginning. That means be there everyday. And have an amicable relationship with the mother. That's actually the best possible scenario.

If all of this REALLY is about your unconditional, undying love for your baby - you'll do whatever you have to do.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[KidWicked 0]

Quote

I have put myself in a situation that is not so easy to deal with.

A girl I have been seeing has turned out to be pregnant. We never wanted it to happen, but it did. I am now leaving the state because of work. I did not intend for our relationship to go farther than the time that I was here in state. This was stated from the beginning. Now, there is this child that has come into play. I do not believe that a man and a woman should be together simply because they have a child. I believe they should be together because they want to be together and they love one another. I know what I feel is the right thing to do. But, more opinions are needed. What is the right thing to do in this situation?

Please provide any input you can. I am willing to answer questions as well. Thank you for your input in advance. It is very much appreciated.

Abort.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[pirana 0]

Quote

Abort.

This is the best advice so far. Right after abort, abort, abort. And that is my personal opinion.

And here are some facts:

<> There is a direct coorelation between single-parent households (SPH's) in a neighborhood and the crime rate. A 13% increase in SPH's equals a doubling of the crime rate.

<> 70% of institutionalized juvenilles come from SPH's.

<> In a population that included 14% of kids coming from SPH's, 43% of the prison population was from SPH's. So roughly 3X the likelihood of going to jail as an adult.

<> Kids from SPH's are 3X more likely to use a weapon against a fellow human.

<> There is a 90% coorelation between violent crime and out-of-marriage birth rates.

<> Girls from SPH's are 2X more likely to become an unwed teenage mom.

<> 70% of rapists, and 75% of murderers come from SPH's.

<> 3X more like to fail in school.

<> 3X more likely to require psych care.

<> 3X more likely to commit suicide.

That's a lot of bullets to dodge.

Here's the scary part. The best of the studies that this stuff comes from not only factor for stuff like income, race, education, etc; but it is found that the correlation between SPH's & crime/behavioral problems is so strong that it completely dominates those other factors; making them nothing but background noise.

Your responses to some of the posts indicate you have done very little in getting to know the challenges you are about to face. The fact that you would even consider removing a 6-month old child from it's mothers presence for 6 months indicates a very low level of awareness of child development or parenting. Nobody expects a new parent to be Dr. Spock, but you do not appear to have a clue.

p.s. - It is a very unpolitically-correct fact that the most positive court action ever taken (based on established correlation) to reduce crime and the number of people on welfare is Roe v. Wade.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[freeflybella 0]

Quote

It is a very unpolitically-correct fact that the most positive court action ever taken (based on established correlation) to reduce crime and the number of people on welfare is Roe v. Wade.

Crazy. But true.

Whole chapter in Freakonomics talks about the abortion ban timing up with high crime rate 18 years later - then roe v wade timing up with reduction of crime 18 years later. Interesting.

I agree don't have the baby but unfortunately he's probably the LEAST likely person to influence the girl in that direction - if she's not already considering it.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[steveorino 7]

It is too late for what is right. Your best move now is what is best.

steveOrino

[Royd 0]

Quote

p.s. - It is a very unpolitically-correct fact that the most positive court action ever taken (based on established correlation) to reduce crime and the number of people on welfare is Roe v. Wade.

Let's hope that the Dems don't get their hands on those statistics. Once they realize what a huge constituency they've been cutting themselves out of, they might reverse R.v W.

[livendive 8]

Quote

And then to be clear - I think you were referring to my comment that all things being equal the baby should remain with the mother...I never made a judgment as to who is the better parent. I said "all things being equal"...

A baby should not be taken from its mother unless absolutely necessary. Divorce or breaking up is not absolutely necessary.

Can you further explain your opinion? I think a child should be with the parent who will provide a better home (noting the difference between a house and home). That could be the father, it could be the mother. You seem to be saying that a maternal relationship is absolutely necessary and a paternal relationship just gets bonus points. Why?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)