GAO - Iraq getting worse

[rushmc 23]

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>It depends on what the subjects are . . . .

I figured I'd get an answer like this one. Not bad!

So going from 8 passing grades to 3 might actually be a GOOD thing. It's all relative. There are no absolutes. Everyone gets a medal. And certainly no one ever fails!

I understand this point of view coming from someone with a very narrow perspective. I just did not expect it from you.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Remster 30]

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>It depends on what the subjects are . . . .

I figured I'd get an answer like this one. Not bad!

So going from 8 passing grades to 3 might actually be a GOOD thing. It's all relative. There are no absolutes. Everyone gets a medal. And certainly no one ever fails!

I understand this point of view coming from someone with a very narrow perspective. I just did not expect it from you.

Yeah. me too. I'd hope Bill would be open minded enough to realize that in certain universes, 3>8.

Remster

[billvon 3,008]

>I understand this point of view coming from someone with a very narrow
>perspective. I just did not expect it from you.

Sorry, knowing basic math can really make you 'narrow' sometimes. Why, next thing you know, I'll be claiming that 2+2 ALWAYS equals four! No flexibility whatsoever.

Which, of course, makes me totally unsuited for public office. "Two plus two? Well, what would you like that to equal, Mr. President? What's that? Why yes sir. I think two plus two DOES equal Saddam having weapons of mass destruction. I will inform the press that we have rock-solid intelligence concerning his WMD arsenals."

[skydyvr 0]

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I figured I'd get an answer like this one. Not bad!

So going from 8 passing grades to 3 might actually be a GOOD thing. It's all relative. There are no absolutes. Everyone gets a medal. And certainly no one ever fails!

LOL -- see Lawrocket's sig line for further info.

. . =(_8^(1)

[rushmc 23]

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>I understand this point of view coming from someone with a very narrow
>perspective. I just did not expect it from you.

Sorry, knowing basic math can really make you 'narrow' sometimes. Why, next thing you know, I'll be claiming that 2+2 ALWAYS equals four! No flexibility whatsoever.

Which, of course, makes me totally unsuited for public office. "Two plus two? Well, what would you like that to equal, Mr. President? What's that? Why yes sir. I think two plus two DOES equal Saddam having weapons of mass destruction. I will inform the press that we have rock-solid intelligence concerning his WMD arsenals."

Not what I meant (and I think you know it) but it is fun watching you have fun

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,008]

>Not what I meant . . .

Ah, good. So you acknowledge that going from 8 passing grades to 3 is the opposite of progress? That's a start!

[rushmc 23]

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>Not what I meant . . .

Ah, good. So you acknowledge that going from 8 passing grades to 3 is the opposite of progress? That's a start!

Not what I was talking about either. And, again, I think you know what was meant, you just do not want to address it. I am fine with that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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>I understand this point of view coming from someone with a very narrow
>perspective. I just did not expect it from you.

Sorry, knowing basic math can really make you 'narrow' sometimes. Why, next thing you know, I'll be claiming that 2+2 ALWAYS equals four! No flexibility whatsoever.

Just in time for Christmas! Sorry Bill.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/60f5/

[Gawain 0]

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.... All while fighting al-Qaeda elements and other Islamo-facists and Iranian insurgents.

edited to add:
.....who weren't there until 2003.

Where would they be if we weren't there? Their presence there shows how significant it is.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,008]

>Where would they be if we weren't there?

Living with their families in Iraq. When you don't accidentally kill off someone's family, they often do not become angry enough to attack the people that did it. They're like us in that way.

[billvon 3,008]

>Not what I was talking about either.

What were you talking about? If you meant something different, then I'm afraid I did not follow your change of subject.

[rushmc 23]

your change of subject.

Irony score 10 out 0f 10

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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your change of subject.

Irony score 10 out 0f 10

No irony.

Maybe if you didn't write "in tongues" we'd all know what you were trying to say.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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your change of subject.

Irony score 10 out 0f 10

No irony.

Maybe if you didn't write "in tongues" we'd all know what you were trying to say.

I write in "tongues" there is another 10

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gawain 0]

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>Where would they be if we weren't there?

Living with their families in Iraq. When you don't accidentally kill off someone's family, they often do not become angry enough to attack the people that did it. They're like us in that way.

Nice try. Most of the insurgents causing most of the problems are not from Iraq.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[juanesky 0]

I was going to respond to that, you beat me to it. He has better info than us, apparently. Anything we've seen there, or done there definitely does not count to his superior resources.

Any jumps lately?

Blue skies!

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Zenister 0]

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If you move the 'milestones' they are not much use now are they?

It apprears it is you who fails to understand what a milestone is. Not surprising.

not at all.. my point remains completely valid....no matter which side of the fence you are on..

maybe you should try looking outside yours?

i'm bored enough to waste a few more minutes on you however..

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mile·stone (mīl'stōn') pronunciation
n.

1. A stone marker set up on a roadside to indicate the distance in miles from a given point.
2. An important event, as in a person's career, the history of a nation, or the advancement of knowledge in a field; a turning point.

if you keep moving them... they become no different than any other 'stone' marking nothing.

you only learned the corporate double speak meaning,?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 3,008]

>Most of the insurgents causing most of the problems are not from Iraq.

90+% are. The 'foreign fighter' myth has been debunked several times now. It keeps coming back because war supporters can claim that the war is "sucking in" people who would be attacking us anyway, when in fact most of the people fighting us are Iraqis who resent our presence there.

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Headlines for July 16, 2007

Report: Nearly Half of Foreign Militants in Iraq Are Saudi

The Los Angeles Times is reporting that nearly half of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops in Iraq have come from Saudi Arabia – one of Washington's closest allies in the Middle East. Of the 19,000 prisoners being held by the U.S. in Iraq only 135 are foreign-born fighters and half of them are Saudi. U.S. officials have so far refused to publicly criticize Saudi Arabia's role in Iraq.
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Among Insurgents in Iraq, Few Foreigners Are Found

By Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, November 17, 2005; Page A01

BAGHDAD -- Before 8,500 U.S. and Iraqi soldiers methodically swept through Tall Afar two months ago in the year's largest counterinsurgency offensive, commanders described the northern city as a logistics hub for fighters, including foreigners entering the country from Syria, 65 miles to the west.

About 1,000 suspected insurgents, apparently all Iraqis, were detained in September in the northern city of Tall Afar after house-to-house searches involving 8,500 U.S. and Iraqi troops.

When the air and ground operation wound down in mid-September, nearly 200 insurgents had been killed and close to 1,000 detained, the military said at the time. But interrogations and other analyses carried out in recent weeks showed that none of those captured was from outside Iraq. According to McMaster's staff, the 3rd Armored Cavalry last detained a foreign fighter in June.

. . .

The relative importance of the foreign component of Iraq's two-year-old insurgency, estimated at between 4 and 10 percent of all guerrillas, has been a matter of growing debate in military and intelligence circles, U.S. and Iraqi officials and American commanders said. Top U.S. military officials here have long emphasized the influence of groups such as al Qaeda in Iraq, an insurgent network led by a Jordanian, Abu Musab Zarqawi. But analysts say the focus on foreign elements is also an attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the insurgency in the eyes of Iraqis, by portraying it as terrorism foisted on the country by outsiders.
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[billvon 3,008]

A few more tidbits:

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BAGHDAD - Civilian deaths rose in August to their second-highest monthly level this year, according to figures compiled Saturday by The Associated Press. That raises questions about whether U.S. strategy is working days before Congress receives landmark reports that will decide the course of the war.
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DEADLIEST SUMMER FOR TROOPS

According to research published by the Brookings Institution, June, July and August of 2007 has been the deadliest summer for American troops with 229 killed so far. In June through August of 2006, 169 Americans were killed. During that same time period in 2005, 2004 and 2003, 217, 162 and 113 American soldiers were killed. [Brookings Institution: Iraq Index]
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State Department investigators in Iraq have concluded that the government of Nouri al-Maliki is not capable of even rudimentary enforcement of anti-corruption laws. The investigators also say that corrupt civil servants with connections to the government are seen as untouchable, and that employees of Iraq's watchdog Commission on Public Integrity have been murdered in the line of duty.
. . .
The State Department investigation found that Iraqi ministries routinely refuse to cooperate with Iraq's Commission on Public Integrity, and the watchdog agency's investigators are often unable to enter government offices because they don't have enough firepower to defend themselves.
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Militias behind blackouts crippling Baghdad

BAGHDAD: Armed groups increasingly control the antiquated switching stations that channel electricity around Iraq, the country's electricity minister said.

. . .

The development compounds existing electricity problems in Baghdad, which has been struggling to provide power for more than a few hours a day because insurgents regularly blow up the towers that carry power lines into the city.
------------------
I can't wait for the next report from Bush explaining how awesome the war is going!

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

A few more tidbits:

-------
BAGHDAD - Civilian deaths rose in August to their second-highest monthly level this year, according to figures compiled Saturday by The Associated Press. That raises questions about whether U.S. strategy is working days before Congress receives landmark reports that will decide the course of the war.
--------
DEADLIEST SUMMER FOR TROOPS

According to research published by the Brookings Institution, June, July and August of 2007 has been the deadliest summer for American troops with 229 killed so far. In June through August of 2006, 169 Americans were killed. During that same time period in 2005, 2004 and 2003, 217, 162 and 113 American soldiers were killed. [Brookings Institution: Iraq Index]
-------
State Department investigators in Iraq have concluded that the government of Nouri al-Maliki is not capable of even rudimentary enforcement of anti-corruption laws. The investigators also say that corrupt civil servants with connections to the government are seen as untouchable, and that employees of Iraq's watchdog Commission on Public Integrity have been murdered in the line of duty.
. . .
The State Department investigation found that Iraqi ministries routinely refuse to cooperate with Iraq's Commission on Public Integrity, and the watchdog agency's investigators are often unable to enter government offices because they don't have enough firepower to defend themselves.
----------
Militias behind blackouts crippling Baghdad

BAGHDAD: Armed groups increasingly control the antiquated switching stations that channel electricity around Iraq, the country's electricity minister said.

. . .

The development compounds existing electricity problems in Baghdad, which has been struggling to provide power for more than a few hours a day because insurgents regularly blow up the towers that carry power lines into the city.
------------------
I can't wait for the next report from Bush explaining how awesome the war is going!

All we need is another 6 months...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,008]

>All we need is another 6 months . . .

Excellent idea! And in six more months, the war supporters can say that, yeah, things are bad now - but in just six months they will turn around. Works well when people have short memories.

One pro-war commentator, Thomas Friedman, has this down to a science:
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"The next six months in Iraq—which will determine the prospects for democracy-building there—are the most important six months in U.S. foreign policy in a long, long time."
(New York Times, 11/30/03)

"What I absolutely don't understand is just at the moment when we finally have a UN-approved Iraqi-caretaker government made up of—I know a lot of these guys—reasonably decent people and more than reasonably decent people, everyone wants to declare it's over. I don't get it. It might be over in a week, it might be over in a month, it might be over in six months, but what's the rush? Can we let this play out, please?"
(Fresh Air, 6/3/04)

"What we're gonna find out, Bob, in the next six to nine months is whether we have liberated a country or uncorked a civil war."
(CBS's Face the Nation, 10/3/04)

"Improv time is over. This is crunch time. Iraq will be won or lost in the next few months. But it won't be won with high rhetoric. It will be won on the ground in a war over the last mile."
(New York Times, 11/28/04)

"I think we're in the end game now…. I think we're in a six-month window here where it's going to become very clear and this is all going to pre-empt I think the next congressional election—that's my own feeling— let alone the presidential one."
(NBC's Meet the Press, 9/25/05)

"Maybe the cynical Europeans were right. Maybe this neighborhood is just beyond transformation. That will become clear in the next few months as we see just what kind of minority the Sunnis in Iraq intend to be. If they come around, a decent outcome in Iraq is still possible, and we should stay to help build it. If they won't, then we are wasting our time."
(New York Times, 9/28/05)

"We've teed up this situation for Iraqis, and I think the next six months really are going to determine whether this country is going to collapse into three parts or more or whether it's going to come together."
(CBS's Face the Nation, 12/18/05)

"We're at the beginning of I think the decisive I would say six months in Iraq, OK, because I feel like this election—you know, I felt from the beginning Iraq was going to be ultimately, Charlie, what Iraqis make of it."
(PBS's Charlie Rose Show, 12/20/05)

"The only thing I am certain of is that in the wake of this election, Iraq will be what Iraqis make of it—and the next six months will tell us a lot. I remain guardedly hopeful."
(New York Times, 12/21/05)

"I think that we're going to know after six to nine months whether this project has any chance of succeeding. In which case, I think the American people as a whole will want to play it out or whether it really is a fool's errand."
(Oprah Winfrey Show, 1/23/06)

"I think we're in the end game there, in the next three to six months, Bob. We've got for the first time an Iraqi government elected on the basis of an Iraqi constitution. Either they're going to produce the kind of inclusive consensual government that we aspire to in the near term, in which case America will stick with it, or they're not, in which case I think the bottom's going to fall out."
(CBS, 1/31/06)

"I think we are in the end game. The next six to nine months are going to tell whether we can produce a decent outcome in Iraq."
(NBC's Today, 3/2/06)

"Can Iraqis get this government together? If they do, I think the American public will continue to want to support the effort there to try to produce a decent, stable Iraq. But if they don't, then I think the bottom is going to fall out of public support here for the whole Iraq endeavor. So one way or another, I think we're in the end game in the sense it's going to be decided in the next weeks or months whether there's an Iraq there worth investing in. And that is something only Iraqis can tell us."
(CNN, 4/23/06)

"Well, I think that we're going to find out, Chris, in the next year to six months—probably sooner—whether a decent outcome is possible there, and I think we're going to have to just let this play out."
(MSNBC's Hardball, 5/11/06)

[billvon 3,008]

And the latest in the long string of six monthers weighs in:

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BAGHDAD - The No. 2 U.S. commander in Iraq said Tuesday that the next three to four months will be crucial in determining whether the United States can start to withdraw troops from Iraq without sacrificing security gains since the troop buildup began early this year . . .

"I think the next three to four months are critical," Odierno told reporters. "I think that if we can continue to do what we are doing, we'll get to such a level where we think we can do it with less troops."
-----------------------

Well, the only reasonable course, then, is to wait three or four months - so we can get to a point where someone can give a speech about how we have to hold on for just six more months.

How many times will war supporters buy the exact same line, when every single time it's turned out to be nothing more than wishful thinking?

[mnealtx 0]

I think I'd be more willing to go with what the Generals actually on the ground are saying rather than the majority of the MSM.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Katie Couric Reports Improvements in Iraq

Wednesday, September 5, 2007 10:32 PM

Article Font Size



CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric says she has seen dramatic improvements in Iraq, according to a CBS report.



"We hear so much about things going bad, but real progress has been made there in terms of security and stability," Couric said. "I mean, obviously, infrastructure problems abound, but Sunnis and U.S. forces are working together. They banded together because they had a common enemy: al Qaeda."



Couric traveled to the city of Fallujah in Anbar province – at one time a violence epicenter. Now Fallujah is "considered a real role model of something working right in Iraq," Couric said.




Many more Iraqis have joined the Iraqi Security Forces in the overwhelmingly Sunni Anbar province. "The spike in police has really been significant," Couric said. "The incidents in Iraq have gone down dramatically."



But while security and stability have improved in Iraq, basic services remain in disrepair, Couric noted. "I think everyone I talk to agrees that restoring basic services is really an imperative step in bringing stability and some kind of sense of society to Iraq.”


© 2007 NewsMax. All rights reserved

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SpeedRacer 1]

Yep, there has actually been some good news from Iraq this week.
Sunni sheiks are allying with US troops in the Anbar province to fight against the common enemy, Al Quaida in Iraq.

Good news!

Speed Racer
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