"Your Papers, Please", Ohio Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Receipt at Circuit City

[billvon 2,991]

> If you did a trade in on something, a 2nd receipt is given to you for
> that with the changes noted.

OK, that makes more sense.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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How about if I walk into CC with a Best Buy bag? You think they have the right to ask for my BB reciept?

They have a policy to place a security tag on your bag or they ask you to check the bag in. This isn't just big box stores that do this.

Hmmm.. must be a regional policy. I can't recall ever having one store place a security tag on a carry-in bag. That would be a real pain if I was shopping at a Mall where I might go into a dozen different stores. BB in this area will put a pink sticker on an item I'm returning but that's all I've ever had them do.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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once they have probable cause...until then fuck off and leave me and my receipt alone.

And by not showing it, you may have given that to them. I haven't read the fine print on the back of the receipt in a few years but I think something about it used to be there.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Zipp0 1]

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Yup, but you need the receipt to show that he actually handed over the money. .

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[willard 0]

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The store has every right to ask to see your receipt.

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Their agent (the cashier) has ALREADY seen it.

In many of these stores the cashier can be quite a distance from the exit, leaving a lot of opportunity for bad people to take advantage of. The exit is the last chance for the store to catch these folk. They have every right to take reasonable measures to prevent this. Asking to see a receipt is very reasonable, especially when the person at the door has other duties that distract him/her and doesn't see each and every person go through a check out line.
Nobody forced the kid to shop there. They made a very simple request (can I see your receipt?) and he made a mountain out of a molehill in refusing to show his receipt and then to show the cop an ID when asked to produce one.
When asked for his drivers license he had a choice.
a) Dig it out and show the cop, or,
b) Say he doesn't have a drivers license with him and ask if another ID is acceptable, or,
c) Be an ass and refuse to cooperate with the cop.
He chose "c" and was cited for his conduct.
The intelligent choice would have been "b" if he didn't want to show one. No laws about going shopping without an ID, but there are against intentionally making a cop's job even more difficult.

[Zipp0 1]

It was the store that made the cops job more difficult when they called in the law with no evidence of a crime.

It would be interesting to see how many people are caught with these systems. I'd bet the number is amazingly low.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[willard 0]

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Yup, but you need the receipt to show that he actually handed over the money. .

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone.

Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction.
Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly!

[jlmiracle 7]

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It was the store that made the cops job more difficult when they called in the law with no evidence of a crime.

THEY didn't call the cops - re-read the story. Mr. fight the power is the one that called the cops.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[willard 0]

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It was the store that made the cops job more difficult when they called in the law with no evidence of a crime.

It would be interesting to see how many people are caught with these systems. I'd bet the number is amazingly low.

The store didn't call the police. The child did.

[Andy9o8 2]

This thread has been painful to read.
I will now speak authoritatively on how to perform neurosurgery. And you better all listen.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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This thread has been painful to read.
I will now speak authoritatively on how to perform neurosurgery. And you better all listen.

Or you could offer an opinion on this topic, which I would be interested in hearing.

[Zipp0 1]

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Yup, but you need the receipt to show that he actually handed over the money. .

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone.

Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction.
Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly!

A receipt or lack thereof does not prove theft. I always pay with a debit card, so I'll gladly go to court and show the jury my bank statement showing I paid. Then I will file a huge lawsuit for wrongful prosecution, etc, etc. The law is that I can't steal. The law does not state "Thou shall show receipt to minimum wage moron on demand or face immediate jail time." I'd also guess that unless the store had video of you stealing, the cops would let you go.

Where's Kennedy - I'm sure he has an opinion on this. And I may actually value it this time.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[lawrocket 3]

I don't have a problem with private businesses requiring presentation of a receipt. Not only is it douns business practice, it is also not a Constitutional issue because it is a private business.

I do have a problem with a police officer requesting further information. However, who here does not think it is rasonable that a police officer seek confirmation of identity?

Other situations I can see this being used.
Officer - "What's in the bag?"
Citizen - "Do you suspect me of a crime?"
Officer - "No. I do not."
Citizen - "Well, then, I'm not showing you."

But the KEY issue to me in this case is that it's this guy who called the cops in the first place! He asked for the cop to be there. The cop showed up to do his job at this guy's request. Normally a cop would want to have a confirmation about to whom he is speaking.

So, this guy actually may end up being absolved of all criminal liability. I give him credit for being the type that would prove a point. Despite my beliefs, I simply don't have the time to fuck around with it like he does.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[willard 0]

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Yup, but you need the receipt to show that he actually handed over the money. .

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone.

Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction.
Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly!

A receipt or lack thereof does not prove theft. I always pay with a debit card, so I'll gladly go to court and show the jury my bank statement showing I paid. Then I will file a huge lawsuit for wrongful prosecution, etc, etc. The law is that I can't steal. The law does not state "Thou shall show receipt to minimum wage moron on demand or face immediate jail time." I'd also guess that unless the store had video of you stealing, the cops would let you go.

Where's Kennedy - I'm sure he has an opinion on this. And I may actually value it this time.

If you were attempting to leave the store w/bag of mechandise and no receipt, they would have a lot more on you than just no receipt. Other than that i agree with each and every point of your reply. You most certainly can refuse to show a receipt, go to court, sue them, etc.
Or you can make everybody's life much simpler and just show them the freakin' receipt. It's actually pretty easy. See that little piece of paper they give you at the checkout? Put it in the bag or keep it in your hand. If they ask to see your receipt just wave that little piece of paper. I know, I know....it's a lot of work and extremely strenuous. But it does make everyone's day much less stressful. After all, the store's right to prevent theft is greater (on store property) than your right to not have to show them the receipt they just gave you. Once you are off their property, THEN you can tell them to go get fucked.

[Zipp0 1]

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I don't have a problem with private businesses requiring presentation of a receipt. Not only is it douns business practice, it is also not a Constitutional issue because it is a private business.

A search of your person is a constitutional issue, IMO. Once you pay, those items are your posessions, and any search is a violation of your rights.

Here is an example of why this is a bad idea. Should I have to show a receipt for the sunglasses I wore into the store if it is a brand/model they sell? But Mr. Cleark, I bought these a week ago, I have no receipt! Well, I guess you stole them then?

Sorry no. Unless you see me stealing, fuck off.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[gmanpilot 0]

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They don't do a strip search, they call the cops, you are arrested and searched there.

For declining to show a receipt for an item I had just purchased? I don't think so. The store can ask for the moon if they want but, they have no authority to enforce anything at that point. All they can do is tell the guy not to come back. If I were a cop called in that situation, I would want to know why I was called in to enforce a lame store policy.

IMO, the guy made two mistakes: 1) Not crushing the store employees leg in his car door when he followed him to his car and prevented him from closing his door; and 2) not producing id for the cop (not very smart).

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[kallend 2,027]

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The bag and its contents were his personal property the instant he handed over the money.

Should he have the right to inspect Circuit City's cash registers because they contain cash that was his a few moments before?

I think you are going a bit extreme on your sway here. If you have ever worked in a retail big box store you would be familiar that they have to build in to their daily numbers lost revenue from missing merchandise. In some of the bigger stores this amount of shrink can match the total daily revenue of smaller stores. For a company like Circuit City this does result in multiple millions of dollars lost every year.

I worked at Best Buy after college for a few years and would have to work Loss Prevention while the security guy went on lunch. The thefts that happen right in plain very are numerous. People have makeshift ways of disabling security tags and hiding merchandise in plain view. Some even bring in their own store branded bags to smuggle things out.

These stores can only prosecute someone for theft once they pass the cash registers and before they leave the store. The corporate lawyers cannot show intent unless their is video with that proof. Once the customer is out the door, the company has taken a loss.

In addition to this, these stores have a repair shop where broken items come in and out quite often during the day.

Thus, the only way to prove that someone is leaving with their merchandise is to show a receipt with the date on it (the repair shops issue one as well for this reason).

If these big box stores did not perform this, the amount of shrink would increase and only two options exist from there 1) Go out of business 2) Extended the loss to the customers. There is nothing illegal that I know of that prevents them from asking for proof of purchase before you leave. If you don't like it, order online and never go into a retail shop again.

If it's such a huge problem, maybe they should rearrange their store with security instead of marketing in mind.

The cashier (an agent of the store) has already seen the receipt.

If I want to eat the receipt the moment it is handed to me, I have that right.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jlmiracle 7]

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If I were a cop called in that situation, I would want to know why I was called in to enforce a lame store policy.

Again, if you read the story, the freedom fighter, not the store, called the police.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[gmanpilot 0]

I got it, I quoted and replied to a different scenario.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[Zipp0 1]

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Yup, but you need the receipt to show that he actually handed over the money. .

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone.

Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction.
Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly!

A receipt or lack thereof does not prove theft. I always pay with a debit card, so I'll gladly go to court and show the jury my bank statement showing I paid. Then I will file a huge lawsuit for wrongful prosecution, etc, etc. The law is that I can't steal. The law does not state "Thou shall show receipt to minimum wage moron on demand or face immediate jail time." I'd also guess that unless the store had video of you stealing, the cops would let you go.

Where's Kennedy - I'm sure he has an opinion on this. And I may actually value it this time.

If you were attempting to leave the store w/bag of mechandise and no receipt, they would have a lot more on you than just no receipt. Other than that i agree with each and every point of your reply. You most certainly can refuse to show a receipt, go to court, sue them, etc.
Or you can make everybody's life much simpler and just show them the freakin' receipt. It's actually pretty easy. See that little piece of paper they give you at the checkout? Put it in the bag or keep it in your hand. If they ask to see your receipt just wave that little piece of paper. I know, I know....it's a lot of work and extremely strenuous. But it does make everyone's day much less stressful. After all, the store's right to prevent theft is greater (on store property) than your right to not have to show them the receipt they just gave you. Once you are off their property, THEN you can tell them to go get fucked.

Yes, it seems so simple doesn't it? Yes, they have the right to demand a receipt, and I have the right to tell them to piss off. Want to have me arrested, go for it. I'll see you in court, and I'll win, because I am not a thief.

Lucky for them that beeper thing hasn't gone off on me yet. Or if it has I didn't notice because I have more important shit to do than stand around proving that I am not a crook.

The best thing they can do is use all of those expensive cameras they have installed, and catch the real crooks. They can be VERY effective - that's why nobody gets away with cheating in Vegas. (well, almost nobody)

Wouldn't you know it, I have to go out and buy dog food after work. Well, I doubt they have those tags on their Purina products.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[willard 0]

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I don't have a problem with private businesses requiring presentation of a receipt. Not only is it douns business practice, it is also not a Constitutional issue because it is a private business.

A search of your person is a constitutional issue, IMO. Once you pay, those items are your posessions, and any search is a violation of your rights.

Here is an example of why this is a bad idea. Should I have to show a receipt for the sunglasses I wore into the store if it is a brand/model they sell? But Mr. Cleark, I bought these a week ago, I have no receipt! Well, I guess you stole them then?

Sorry no. Unless you see me stealing, fuck off.

I'm not a lawer but I am smart enough to know that they don't HAVE to see you stealing or catch it on camera to get a conviction.
"This surge protector? The one in my bag, with your store label? The one I have no receipt for while walking from the register to the door? Yeah, it's mine. I brought it in with me."
Sure you did. Hell, maybe you really did! But I doubt any cop or judge is going to buy your claim.
Sunglasses? I've been asked about mine several times, each time at the store i bought them and by a different cashier. I just tell them I bought them several weeks ago and they are happy with that. It's amazing what a civil response to a question can do to keep a situation from escalating vs a smartass reply.

[Armour666 0]

Wow a lot of people are will to give up their rights to a frigin retail store. Once a transaction is completed they can not stop you from there to see your receipt (They can for Storys that you sign for a member ship as that is part of the agreement you sign for)

You can only be detained if they have witnessed you committing the act of theft. Walking out of the store and refusing to show your receipt is well with in your rights. As for the police in Ohio http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29

No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person’s name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:

(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.
Effective Date: 04-14-2006
Sure it’s easier to just roll over and give up right out of convince , other feel different about this and exercise their legal rights to refuse to show a receipt turned in to a major rights violation by the police!!! He was a passenger and they had no authority to ask for a drives license as he was not the operator of the vehicle!!! Hr complied in identifying him self.

Why are people looked at as being a jerk or asshole just because they refuse to roll over and take the easy route even though it violates their personal rights?

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[willard 0]

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Lucky for them that beeper thing hasn't gone off on me yet. Or if it has I didn't notice because I have more important shit to do than stand around proving that I am not a crook.

Why? What would you do, create a scene in the store? The stores have those "beeper things" in place to prevent shoplifting. Being manmade they are prone to failure and occasionally the "beeper thing" goes off when a legit customer exits the store. If you don't want that to happen to you then it is simple - don't shop there. Not shopping there is a right you can freely express.
However, if you DO choose to shop there, then you assume certain risks of "beeeper things" going off on you. But if it does fear not. It is virtually painless and the sterility only lasts for 5-10 years.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Wouldn't you know it, I have to go out and buy dog food after work. Well, I doubt they have those tags on their Purina products.

Not yet. Give them a little more time.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Technology/Radiofrequency-tags-know-what-you-want/2005/06/09/1118123948856.html

[jlmiracle 7]

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Why are people looked at as being a jerk or asshole just because they refuse to roll over and take the easy route even though it violates their personal rights?

Because people like that just want to be difficult. They can't just be a productive member of society. They want to "fight the power" They obviously have nothing better to do. There are bigger battles to fight other than YOU CAN"T SEE MY RECEIPT. I thought my life was somewhat pathetic till I read what this thread was about. I definately have alot more going on then most.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.