Draft dodgers Cowards, brave or other

[Gawain 0]

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As long as there isn't a draft, only people who believe in a war will sign up. No one has to "dodge" anything if they don't believe in it.

Unfortunately most people who join are in middle to low income families who need money for school.

You know this from experience or conducting a study?

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I think for some it might not be that they believe in war but that they want a better life and this is the only way they see of achieving it.

Spoken from experience in the military for sure.

I've seen a very even spread of dorks, dummys, whiz kids and affluent people in the Army. All have different reasons for signing the line.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I can sort of see where you could argue that they are not cowards if their consciense wont let them fight in the particular war in question, but to call them brave is ridiculous.
During the Viet Nam war there was a draft. At that time the deal was that exposure to the draft was part of the obligations of being an American. If you weren't willing to pay that price you could leave; some did and I don't think they were cowards. Some stayed and when they were drafted they stood up like men and said no. They did so knowing there would be consequences; these men were not cowards. But those who stayed in the US, enjoying the benefits of the country and then slunk away in the night to form the New Democrat Party in Vancouver when their name was called, those men were cowards.

[joedirt 0]

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Unfortunately most people who join are in middle to low income families who need money for school.
I think for some it might not be that they believe in war but that they want a better life and this is the only way they see of achieving it.
***

I would say way an overwelming percent of the men I served with would consider themselves middle class, and that's an infantry unit. If one wants financial aid for college, they just have to not get a felony, it's really not that hard.

[Casurf1978 0]

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You can question and vote all you want, but when you are called you had better be a fucking man, not a maggot.

No you're not. It's your duty as an American to question the actions of your government and if need be oppose the actions if they are unjust. IMO you're a coward and a maggot if you blindly believe and follow whatever the government feeds down your throat w/o questioning it.
Ali pretty much sums it up here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL1BC45QXAk

He does have a point doesnt he.

[Royd 0]

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Unfortunately most people who join are in middle to low income families who need money for school.
I think for some it might not be that they believe in war but that they want a better life and this is the only way they see of achieving it.

There are many jobs that are dangerous and result in good pay because there's a good chance of being maimed or killed. It's all a gamble.

[Royd 0]

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With that mentality the Government could just unquestioningly launch any war at all, no matter how stupid, and we'd all just have to march in there like sheep.

this is exactly why there shouldn't be a draft at all. It avoids this moral conflict.

So those who choose to live a selfish bohemian lifestyle shouldn't feel one bit of guilt about not serving while others fight to keep them free?

[freethefly 6]

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It is quite obvious that you never served, or you would understand me a bit more clearly.

I've served and I find your statements to be quite mindless in the sence that we should be willing to die for any reason the government desires. I bought to that bullshit years ago. Only later did the truth come out about the Iranian Conflict. All I could think is that they were willing to start a full scale invasion for a murdering Shah. I'm glad we didn't go down that road. We did however stick around and gave Saddam Hussein, our great ally and good friend, a helping hand to fight Iran. Proxy war?
If that moron Bush called me personally to tell me I was going to Iraq, I'd tell him to go fuck himself.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[SpeedRacer 1]

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With that mentality the Government could just unquestioningly launch any war at all, no matter how stupid, and we'd all just have to march in there like sheep.

this is exactly why there shouldn't be a draft at all. It avoids this moral conflict.

So those who choose to live a selfish bohemian lifestyle shouldn't feel one bit of guilt about not serving while others fight to keep them free?

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Are you arguing in favor of the draft?

Speed Racer
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[freethefly 6]

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With that mentality the Government could just unquestioningly launch any war at all, no matter how stupid, and we'd all just have to march in there like sheep.

this is exactly why there shouldn't be a draft at all. It avoids this moral conflict.

So those who choose to live a selfish bohemian lifestyle shouldn't feel one bit of guilt about not serving while others fight to keep them free?

Tell us, which of the last 3 or 4 wars threatened to enslave us? Were the N. Koreans going to erect statues of their glorious leader in our town squares? Were the evil Ho Chi Minh going to put us all in the rice paddies? Are you insisting that we all would be paying homage to Allah if not for Bush 1 and Bush 2? The whole arguement that our freedom is endanger is whitewash. It's merely about having the biggest fist and has nothing to do with our freedom.
If a country attacks us, fine, I'll fight. If not, they can kiss my ass. I'm not about to die for the corporations that fuel war.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[bozo 0]

But....but...I got some neat medals and they didnt.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[mnealtx 0]

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As long as there isn't a draft, only people who believe in a war will sign up. No one has to "dodge" anything if they don't believe in it.

Unfortunately most people who join are in middle to low income families who need money for school.
I think for some it might not be that they believe in war but that they want a better life and this is the only way they see of achieving it.

Still, they know the possibility exists when they sign that contract. If they cannot envision the possibility of going to war, then they should not have signed up.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[pirana 0]

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It is quite obvious that you never served, or you would understand me a bit more clearly.

The statement, or arguement, or whatever it is your posting has to have some sort of semblance of logic in order to be in the realm of being understandable.

All I'm seeing so far is breast-beating.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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It is quite obvious that you never served, or you would understand me a bit more clearly.

I've served and I find your statements to be quite mindless in the sence that we should be willing to die for any reason the government desires. I bought to that bullshit years ago. Only later did the truth come out about the Iranian Conflict. All I could think is that they were willing to start a full scale invasion for a murdering Shah. I'm glad we didn't go down that road. We did however stick around and gave Saddam Hussein, our great ally and good friend, a helping hand to fight Iran. Proxy war?
If that moron Bush called me personally to tell me I was going to Iraq, I'd tell him to go fuck himself.

I don't think warpedskydiver thinks we are supposed to think that deeply. We are supposed to just go off and kill and be killed alongside whatever ally our whorish leaders have aligned themselves with on that particular day.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Darius11 12]

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You can question and vote all you want, but when you are called you had better be a fucking man, not a maggot.

No you're not. It's your duty as an American to question the actions of your government and if need be oppose the actions if they are unjust. IMO you're a coward and a maggot if you blindly believe and follow whatever the government feeds down your throat w/o questioning it.
Ali pretty much sums it up here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL1BC45QXAk

He does have a point doesnt he.

I agree with you 100%.

Good video too.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Here you go sir

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/03/AR2005110302528.html

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Youths in Rural U.S. Are Drawn To Military
Recruits' Job Worries Outweigh War Fears


As sustained combat in Iraq makes it harder than ever to fill the ranks of the all-volunteer force, newly released Pentagon demographic data show that the military is leaning heavily for recruits on economically depressed, rural areas where youths' need for jobs may outweigh the risks of going to war.

More than 44 percent of U.S. military recruits come from rural areas, Pentagon figures show. In contrast, 14 percent come from major cities. Youths living in the most sparsely populated Zip codes are 22 percent more likely to join the Army, with an opposite trend in cities. Regionally, most enlistees come from the South (40 percent) and West (24 percent).

Many of today's recruits are financially strapped, with nearly half coming from lower-middle-class to poor households, according to new Pentagon data based on Zip codes and census estimates of mean household income. Nearly two-thirds of Army recruits in 2004 came from counties in which median household income is below the U.S. median.

for the rst go to link way long

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

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More than 44 percent of U.S. military recruits come from rural areas, Pentagon figures show. In contrast, 14 percent come from major cities... Many of today's recruits are financially strapped, with nearly half coming from lower-middle-class to poor households...

Um, that doesn't prove your point. In fact, it contradicts it.

44% come from rural areas. 14% from cities. That means that the remaining 42% come from the middle-class suburbs.

And if half come from lower-middle-class to poor families, that means that the other half comes from middle-to-upper-class and wealthy families. An even split. In other words, a fairly representative cross-section of American society.

You lose again.

So, when are you going to go home to Iran to do your brave patriotic duty to help defend your native country from America? Or are you just too comfy here, with your American affluence and freedom, to bother?

[JohnnyD 0]

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So, when are you going to go home to Iran to do your brave patriotic duty to help defend your native country from America? Or are you just too comfy here, with your American affluence and freedom, to bother?

IMO, that is a lousy fucking thing to say to an American citizen.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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It is quite obvious that you never served, or you would understand me a bit more clearly.

I've served and I find your statements to be quite mindless in the sence that we should be willing to die for any reason the government desires. I bought to that bullshit years ago. Only later did the truth come out about the Iranian Conflict. All I could think is that they were willing to start a full scale invasion for a murdering Shah. I'm glad we didn't go down that road. We did however stick around and gave Saddam Hussein, our great ally and good friend, a helping hand to fight Iran. Proxy war?
If that moron Bush called me personally to tell me I was going to Iraq, I'd tell him to go fuck himself.

And I would get a bag of pocorn, a chair and enjoy the ensuing hilarity.

Talk about breast beating!

[freethefly 6]

enjoy all you want while sitting safe in a chair promoting war while others die. Stop being a maggot and go join up

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[warpedskydiver 0]

Geez where do I start on that one, oh yeah, nevermind...why enlighten you.

Well there you have it folks, I am an armchair bound, maggot, who is unwilling to fight, according to freethefly.

Wow, what will you call the next person.

[freethefly 6]

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Geez where do I start on that one, oh yeah, nevermind...why enlighten you.

Well there you have it folks, I am an armchair bound, maggot, unwilling to fight, according to freethefly.

Wow, what will you call the next person.

You imply that everyone else who wish not to die in Bush's war is a maggot. you imply that those who refused to go to Nam is a maggot. You should remember that Bush got the gravy duty so not to go to Nam. That's far worst than those who crossed to Canada. Guess he's a maggot also.
I bet you consider me a maggot amongst other things. Pesonaly, I do not give a damn what anyone thinks of me. Think away. Have fun. Enjoy your chair.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[warpedskydiver 0]

So you think all military personnel wish to die in "bush's war"


Your hatred of Bush seems to cloud your perception a bit.


No I don't think you are a maggot, just a bit uneven in the application or your moral compass.

[Nightingale 0]

True. There's a difference between wishing to die and being willing to die if it comes to that. Some people are willing to accept the risk of death in Iraq. Others are not.

[freethefly 6]

my moral compass is fine. I'd joined back up if able to when our country went to afghanistan. the right war. This crap that we brought on Iraq is bullshit. It didn't need to happen. Where are we now? Near 4000 dead americans, unknown exact number of Iraqis, Al Qaida stronger, Taliban on the rise and a slew of people hating us even more. It's bullshit to hip hip hooray an invasion of a country that poised no threat. Binny Laden must be laughing his ass off. The fucker should had been hanging and swinging a long time ago.

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So you think all military personnel wish to die in "bush's war"

I've never implied any such thing. Nice but, feeble,
try to paint me as a troop hater.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Darius11 12]

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And if half come from lower-middle-class to poor families, that means that the other half comes from middle-to-upper-class and wealthy families. An even split. In other words, a fairly representative cross-section of American society.

You lose again.

What did I lose John?

Did you read the whole article. The way you reach conclusion explains your views perfectly. Decide what to believe then findn, makeup, and edit the facts to fit your narrow views. We all have seen what that kind of thinking has done to us in the last 7 years.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain