Wouldn’t you feel safer with a gun?

[Royd 0]

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Simpe solution....When you hand over the wallet take out your ID so they don't get your address or just don't keep your id in your wallet and make it a point to not carry cash.....

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Or maybe you could carry a second wallet with a little bit of cash in it, hand it over, and while their bitching about only getting 10 bucks, you pull out your other wallet and blow their ass away.

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Cute......but in real life you'd get charged with murder as they were walking away and they didn't threaten you with a weapon.

No they wouldn't. They'd be dead and the cops would probably find a rap sheet on everyone of them.

[rehmwa 2]

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It's only material things.....now you start talking about people's lives and that's a different story. What's the point of getting shot over your wallet, it's just a wallet?

gimme your shoes

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[warpedskydiver 0]

I would give them my shoes, with my feet still in them.

[sv3n 0]

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............there a billion things that could happen. Hell, they could all break into a rap video song and dance routine.

That, right there, would be reason enough to take them out.

what was it...."you wanna see me cry? then play some rap music." - Bruce Willis (The Last Boy Scout)

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

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It's only material things.....now you start talking about people's lives and that's a different story. What's the point of getting shot over your wallet, it's just a wallet?

gimme your shoes

what size do you wear? maybe we can start a fund to get you some shoes.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

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Simpe solution....When you hand over the wallet take out your ID so they don't get your address or just don't keep your id in your wallet and make it a point to not carry cash.....

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Or maybe you could carry a second wallet with a little bit of cash in it, hand it over, and while their bitching about only getting 10 bucks, you pull out your other wallet and blow their ass away.

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Cute......but in real life you'd get charged with murder as they were walking away and they didn't threaten you with a weapon.

No they wouldn't. They'd be dead and the cops would probably find a rap sheet on everyone of them.

Doesn't matter..........if the cops see a video with you blowing away three dudes as they're walking away and they never pulled a weapon on you.....you would quickly become bruno's new bitch my friend. Every officer I've ever talked to about self-defense has always told me the rule of thumb is don't go above what your aggressor does otherwise you're playing with fire and a very thin line of victim or criminal behavior. Doesn't matter who started it.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[rehmwa 2]

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It's only material things.....now you start talking about people's lives and that's a different story. What's the point of getting shot over your wallet, it's just a wallet?

gimme your shoes

what size do you wear? maybe we can start a fund to get you some shoes.

doesn't matter, I'll just use the money to buy bricks

gimme your hat

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Zipp0 1]

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So, if you are a victim to armed robery, it is your fault?.

Rule number 1, be prepared for survival, it is not a beauty contest out there.

If you put yourself in that situation, then yes.

But you're missing the fact that these guys weren't armed...........they just walked up to him and said "give me your wallet".

I would reply "Piss off, fuckwad. Why should I give you my wallet?"

Now my hand is on my concealed weapon. If they escalate, they die.

Simple, really.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[kelpdiver 2]

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A dream victim.....that I will be, up until the point where I can't be anymore. Hell take my wallet I don't care it's just a wallet, the watch go ahead it's just a watch. After they leave I'll call the police and they'll hopefully be arrested and in custody. But you put a gun to my head and that compliance will disappear in an instance.......before you know it that compliant person will be the one with the gun and you'll be restrained.

Sven, if you wait until the guy puts a gun to your head, you're lost all your options. You have little choice but to be compliant at that point unless you want to play Hollywood and snatch it out of his hand. Your time to act is when he doesn't know you have a gun and he hasn't pulled his out yet.

Why on earth do you presume that he'll go away nicely. Robbery is a third strike offense - he'll go to jail for life if caught.

Making the choice to not use the gun is one every CCW carrier can choose to do (BTW, Kris, big fucking chance on that application in California, even in OC it's not likely to be accepted). Many scenarios point to that as the better route.

But no way is it reckless escalation to choose to brandish and if necessary to use the weapon. Triply so for any women in that situation.

[sv3n 0]

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So, if you are a victim to armed robery, it is your fault?.

Rule number 1, be prepared for survival, it is not a beauty contest out there.

If you put yourself in that situation, then yes.

But you're missing the fact that these guys weren't armed...........they just walked up to him and said "give me your wallet".

I would reply "Piss off, fuckwad. Why should I give you my wallet?"

Now my hand is on my concealed weapon. If they escalate, they die.

Simple, really.

If you were by yourself and there was nobody else around, I would agree with that.........if you had your child with you, a loved one with you, or there were a bunch of bystanders then I wouldn't. If there are other people that will be involved then you have to take that into account.......it would be irresponsible to start something involving firearms in a crowd.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

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A dream victim.....that I will be, up until the point where I can't be anymore. Hell take my wallet I don't care it's just a wallet, the watch go ahead it's just a watch. After they leave I'll call the police and they'll hopefully be arrested and in custody. But you put a gun to my head and that compliance will disappear in an instance.......before you know it that compliant person will be the one with the gun and you'll be restrained.

Sven, if you wait until the guy puts a gun to your head, you're lost all your options. You have little choice but to be compliant at that point unless you want to play Hollywood and snatch it out of his hand. Your time to act is when he doesn't know you have a gun and he hasn't pulled his out yet.

Why on earth do you presume that he'll go away nicely. Robbery is a third strike offense - he'll go to jail for life if caught.

Making the choice to not use the gun is one every CCW carrier can choose to do (BTW, Kris, big fucking chance on that application in California, even in OC it's not likely to be accepted). Many scenarios point to that as the better route.

But no way is it reckless escalation to choose to brandish and if necessary to use the weapon. Triply so for any women in that situation.

If you finally arrive at the point where a gun ends up at your temple, you've really messed and put yourself in a bad situation. You stopped at the wrong place, allowed the wrong people to approach you, let things escalate to this point, etc. And yes, if you're at this point it's time to fight.....you're fighting for your life at this point.

If you don't know if he has a gun or not you can't pre-emptively strike.......that would set one hell of a bad precedent. "well I thought he was gonna attack me, so I killed him"..........see how that does in court.

Why would he go away nicely? Well, if you've been nothing but cooperative he has no reason to attack you. If he does, then that changes things. But at the same time, if you've been nothing cooperative he's going to assume you'll be that way throughout......you therefore have the element of surprise on your side if you choose not to be cooperative anymore.....and he still doesn't know you have a handgun.

Choosing to use a weapon should be your absolute last resort, especially in public. Using it as a tinker toy to shy away a couple of guys that don't threaten you but ask for your wallet is completely irresponsible. Ask yourself, how would the police react if you called them and told them you just pulled a handgun on a couple of guys who asked for your wallet at the gas station, but never pulled a weapon on you of any kind? You would be talking to them a lot more than you think.

You wanna talk Hollywood, there you go......."yeah man, they asked for my wallet 'n I just flashed my piece at 'em".

...and you're in violation of your face!

[kelpdiver 2]

there's no point entertaining a troll who says bad guys that 'ask for your wallet' aren't attacking you.

You can't even keep your bullshit scenarios straight (for instance, the gun at the head situation).

[kschilk 0]

Absolutely right. After they leave and are unsuspecting, you can hunt 'em down, carve 'em like a Thanksgiving turkey and get your wallet back. 'Tis the American way.

[hint] They can't get reliable ballistics, from an arrow or crossbow bolt.

[shropshire 0]

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Absolutely right. After they leave and are unsuspecting, you can hunt 'em down, carve 'em like a Thanksgiving turkey and get your wallet back. 'Tis the American way.

Or better yet, find someone weaker than you and steal their country wallet, wallet.... I meant wallet.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[sv3n 0]

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there's no point entertaining a troll who says bad guys that 'ask for your wallet' aren't attacking you.

You can't even keep your bullshit scenarios straight (for instance, the gun at the head situation).

They are not threatening your life at that point.........if they pulled a weapon on you then they would be threatening your life. Your logic is flawed. A pre-emptive strike with a firearm would make you the attacker.

What about the gun at your head scenario is flawed.....if you arrive at that point you are fighting for your life. If they pulled a weapon on you, you're fighting for your life. But until that happens you are not fighting for your life. Just cause someone says fuck off........that doesn't mean you're in a life or death situation. Otherwise you'd be pulling your handgun a lot and would be no better than some skinny little thug with a handgun pulling it any moment someone ruffles his feathers. You have to have a reason to pull a firearm.........not just because you think the other guy might attack you. Wake up.....knock knock....reality calling.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[kallend 2,026]

Safer than what? Safer than skydiving or flying a small airplane?

If I thought I would be safer with a gun, I would have one. I don't, so I don't.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[algboy 0]

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The best decision for everybody? This is not Alice in Wonderland. Actions have consequences. If I am threatened I am going to respond. Your solution lets the bad guys get away with no consequences and that is why crime is on the rise. We have to take a stand as a society against this type of thing. Otherwise it will continue to escalate. What you describe is a slippery slope. At what point to you stand up for yourself. "OK Mr. Bad guy, I will let you rape my wife and beat my kids but then you have to leave so we can have the best outcome for everybody." Example may be extreme...but at what point do you stop letting people act without consequences?

Lenin said, "Probe with bayonets, where you find mush proceed, where you find steel, withdraw." Call this a thug's credo.

People need to choose their individual "choke point" where you draw the line in the sand and refuse to be victimized. I choose to be steel. That's why I carry and that's why I'm not afraid of being a victim.

A gun is the great equalizer; it makes me stronger than four. If they reach for a weapon while I have my weapon drawn, I have them at a serious disadvantage. If they have a weapon out already, I will still draw down on them because I have the intention of killing them, whereas they probably assume I am unarmed and may only have the intention of intimidating me. Lastly, if they have a weapon out and ARE prepared to kill me, they will have to work for it because I will be blazing back at them until only one of us is left standing.

A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

This means that I--not the bad guy--get the benefit of the doubt. And I practice the American martial art of BangPao with a Mozambique Drill!

[sv3n 0]

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The best decision for everybody? This is not Alice in Wonderland. Actions have consequences. If I am threatened I am going to respond. Your solution lets the bad guys get away with no consequences and that is why crime is on the rise. We have to take a stand as a society against this type of thing. Otherwise it will continue to escalate. What you describe is a slippery slope. At what point to you stand up for yourself. "OK Mr. Bad guy, I will let you rape my wife and beat my kids but then you have to leave so we can have the best outcome for everybody." Example may be extreme...but at what point do you stop letting people act without consequences?

Lenin said, "Probe with bayonets, where you find mush proceed, where you find steel, withdraw." Call this a thug's credo.

People need to choose their individual "choke point" where you draw the line in the sand and refuse to be victimized. I choose to be steel. That's why I carry and that's why I'm not afraid of being a victim.

A gun is the great equalizer; it makes me stronger than four. If they reach for a weapon while I have my weapon drawn, I have them at a serious disadvantage. If they have a weapon out already, I will still draw down on them because I have the intention of killing them, whereas they probably assume I am unarmed and may only have the intention of intimidating me. Lastly, if they have a weapon out and ARE prepared to kill me, they will have to work for it because I will be blazing back at them until only one of us is left standing.

A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

This means that I--not the bad guy--get the benefit of the doubt. And I practice the American martial art of BangPao with a Mozambique Drill!

I agree with you to a certain extent......sometimes you need to be strong and stand up for yourself, but there's a fine line between being the victim and changing the roles and becoming the aggressor.........and in a legal sense the incident in question would not justify deadly force. Had they pulled a weapon or told him that they were going to kill him, at that point he should have pulled his...........not before. "I thought they were armed" or "it seemed like they were going to" aren't going to get you anywhere in court. This wasn't a life or death situation....it could have turned into it, but at this point it was not. There's a flaw in your theory.........if you choose to be "steel" all the time.........someone says something that intimidates you and you pull a gun, you've just crossed the line of becoming the aggressor............you just made them the victim. You can't physically threaten people with a weapon over a verbal comment............unless that comment is something along the lines of "I am going to kill you".

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A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

I agree with you here, once again to a point...........if you can resolve the situation without killing your opponent, then that is the route you should take. If killing your opponent is your only choice then so be it.

Personally I prefer a more ancient art called g` lock.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[steve1 5]

Pulling out a gun can prevent a violent act, in the right scenario, but it can also turn into a nightmare in another.

My brother had a friend who worked law enforcement. He retired, and planned to live the good life. He was camping one evening, when three rowdies decided to camp right next to him. Things escalated into a confrontation. He pulled out his gun, because he felt threatened. He ended up getting 30 years. Ten years for each rowdy he pointed his gun at. This was in Oregon.

This poor guy is now living in the Pen, fearing that the other cons will find out he was a former parole officer. This is one good reason for not pulling out a gun unless it is a last resort.

I know of another guy who is also serving time for pulling a gun when he shouldn't have....Steve1

[Clownburner 0]

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Pulling out a gun can prevent a violent act, in the right scenario, but it can also turn into a nightmare in another.

My brother had a friend who worked law enforcement. He retired, and planned to live the good life. He was camping one evening, when three rowdies decided to camp right next to him. Things escalated into a confrontation. He pulled out his gun, because he felt threatened. He ended up getting 30 years. Ten years for each rowdy he pointed his gun at. This was in Oregon.

This poor guy is now living in the Pen, fearing that the other cons will find out he was a former parole officer. This is one good reason for not pulling out a gun unless it is a last resort.

I know of another guy who is also serving time for pulling a gun when he shouldn't have....Steve1

I feel sorry for him, but he should have known that once he's no longer sworn law enforcement, his only right to use a gun is in defense of his life, or the lives of others. Not in any confrontation - no matter the words or threats - and as a former LEO he should have known that.

30 years sounds pretty harsh though. That's a lot more than he'd have gotten in most states for "brandishing a firearm" and "assault with a deadly weapon" which are the relevant charges there, I believe.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Safer than what? Safer than skydiving or flying a small airplane?

If I thought I would be safer with a gun, I would have one. I don't, so I don't.

John we will take you to the range and get you familiarized with all the weapons you want.

Maybe even build you an AR15

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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I disagree. I refuse to be a victim on any level. Where do you draw the line? Why carry a gun if you are not willing to use it? Criminals rely on their victims to be passive. I refuse to fit that mold. I understand where you are coming from but if i had it to do all over again I would not change my actions.

If you have an out, take the out......if you are in a corner and your life is jeopardy, then it is different case. I can think of two different occasions that my life was threatened and I was armed.......Both times I had an out and chose to run away and not kill the other person, and I think it was the right thing to do.
I am planning a 12 day backcountry trip in southern Utah the first two weeks of October, and I will not be armed....this is the first time I have ever been in the backcountry without a weapon and I am not happy about it........I guess my last thoughts whenever that mountain lion/or other is about to pounce on me will be....ain't this some shit!

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[algboy 0]

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The best decision for everybody? This is not Alice in Wonderland. Actions have consequences. If I am threatened I am going to respond. Your solution lets the bad guys get away with no consequences and that is why crime is on the rise. We have to take a stand as a society against this type of thing. Otherwise it will continue to escalate. What you describe is a slippery slope. At what point to you stand up for yourself. "OK Mr. Bad guy, I will let you rape my wife and beat my kids but then you have to leave so we can have the best outcome for everybody." Example may be extreme...but at what point do you stop letting people act without consequences?

Lenin said, "Probe with bayonets, where you find mush proceed, where you find steel, withdraw." Call this a thug's credo.

People need to choose their individual "choke point" where you draw the line in the sand and refuse to be victimized. I choose to be steel. That's why I carry and that's why I'm not afraid of being a victim.

A gun is the great equalizer; it makes me stronger than four. If they reach for a weapon while I have my weapon drawn, I have them at a serious disadvantage. If they have a weapon out already, I will still draw down on them because I have the intention of killing them, whereas they probably assume I am unarmed and may only have the intention of intimidating me. Lastly, if they have a weapon out and ARE prepared to kill me, they will have to work for it because I will be blazing back at them until only one of us is left standing.

A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

This means that I--not the bad guy--get the benefit of the doubt. And I practice the American martial art of BangPao with a Mozambique Drill!

I agree with you to a certain extent......sometimes you need to be strong and stand up for yourself, but there's a fine line between being the victim and changing the roles and becoming the aggressor.........and in a legal sense the incident in question would not justify deadly force. Had they pulled a weapon or told him that they were going to kill him, at that point he should have pulled his...........not before. "I thought they were armed" or "it seemed like they were going to" aren't going to get you anywhere in court. This wasn't a life or death situation....it could have turned into it, but at this point it was not. There's a flaw in your theory.........if you choose to be "steel" all the time.........someone says something that intimidates you and you pull a gun, you've just crossed the line of becoming the aggressor............you just made them the victim. You can't physically threaten people with a weapon over a verbal comment............unless that comment is something along the lines of "I am going to kill you".

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A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

I agree with you here, once again to a point...........if you can resolve the situation without killing your opponent, then that is the route you should take. If killing your opponent is your only choice then so be it.

Personally I prefer a more ancient art called g` lock.

Just to clarify: choosing to be "steel" doesn't mean that the only tool on my belt is a gun. It could be anything from making an assertive comment, standing up to a bully, getting a movie manager to eject some loudmouth SOB, filing a grievance against a boss, to calling 911, up to shooting some bastard dead.

Being "steel" means I choose to resist the bullies/meanies/thugs/dickheads of the world who generally encounter "mush".

One of the earlier posts referred to the scenario of four slugs surrounding him demanding--not "asking--for his wallet. Now I'm guessing I wouldn't have the presence of mind to remove my ID from my wallet without spooking the thugs into wasting me, but . . . . I'm gonna bet MY life that they mean me harm and aren't out collecting for UNICEF.

The mistake the poster made was in pointing the gun at them too early. He should have had it at the "low ready" position and shouted "NO--I'm not giving you my wallet! Get away from me" [That should keep the ambulance-chaser/prosecutor crowd happy and let any witnesses know that YOU are the victim.] Then call 911 to CYA.

[rickjump1 0]

I am planning a 12 day backcountry trip in southern Utah the first two weeks of October, and I will not be armed....this is the first time I have ever been in the backcountry without a weapon and I am not happy about it........I guess my last thoughts whenever that mountain lion/or other is about to pounce on me will be....ain't this some shit!

Why not consider bear spray?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[tbrown 26]

I'd feel safer with a gun if I owned any O J Simpson sports memorabilia....

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !