Student tazered at public Kerry speech

[skycop 0]

I'm not disputing they are less lethal, or non-lethal or whatever you want to call it. The tazer is not the problem, it's the suspects actions, lifestyle or both that have caused untimely deaths. These deaths are not limited to tazers, so all types of force or less lethal force should be banned then right?
Examples:

300+ pound guy, high on PCP and cocaine fights with the cops by trying to take the first swing and missing, cop(s) use batons (no tazers available) multiple times to gain compliance. Suspect taken into custody after a somewhat prolonged struggle and dies after his heart explodes from over excersion. All this is caught on video. There is a huge public outcry about why the cops had to hit him with their batons. They demand what should have been used? A TAZER...........

During a disturbance after a baseball game, Pepperball guns are fired into a crowd to disperse them. They are basiclly paintball guns that fire paintballs filled with powdered OC. A potentially uninvolved female gets hit in the eye and dies.

A suspect fights with the cops, get sprayed with OC, has a respiratory reaction to the OC and dies.

A 350+ lb guy decides he does not want to go to the hospital to be treated for mental problems after being told by mental health professionals he is being committed. He swings at fire department personnel, a struggle ensues with fireman and cops. The guys dies form his heart exploding due to over excersion. In this case open handed force was used, no impact weapons were used at all.

So with these facts in mind, all types of force should be banned? I live in the real world, I was personally involved in one of these and the lawsuit that followed. There is no type of force that is completely safe, there are no fights that are pretty.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

Willard,
Don't let them get under you skin, that is what they want.

One time I had a chance to tell Michael Moore to fuck off right to his face. I thought about it and decided not to. I walked up to him, saw just how pathetic he was, laughed and walked away. When someone did say something to him from across the street. He yelled harrassment and wanted the police called.
This kid involved in the Kerry situation strikes me as a Michael Moore type, kick and scream, jump up and down, eventually someone will listen.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Armour666 0]

and now Kerry Condemns Heckler Arrest saying that he was engaged in a "good healthy discussion" with 21-year-old Andrew Meyer when he was Tasered and taken into custody.

Kerry said in a statement. "I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody."

Who is correct in this ? the person speaking ? or the ones hosting the event ?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/students-rally-.html

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[nigel99 568]

I think it comes back to context. Initially looking at the video I felt that the police used excessive force, and I am still inclined to believe that the situation could possibly have been handled differently.

However the police actions shown in the video clearly are a snippet in time, by the sounds of it the culmination of an evenings events.

If this person only did what was shown on video then the police should be brought to account. If as appears to be the case this guy, was causing trouble earlier then the video lacks context and the response was possibly justified.

On a side note, the US police/military does have a perceived reputation for being aggressive relative to other countries. For example in the UK you would not crap yourself if pulled over by the police on the roads, whereas people feel very differently about the police in the US.

I remembered this post from Tonto http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1311995;search_string=police;#1311995

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[normiss 848]

sure...we ALWAYS believe cops...

tazer death

the fact that cops couldn't handle someone in a wheel chair is inexcusable.

**edited to remove comments deemed offensive by local LEO.

[Zipp0 1]

I just read a report that he was ALREADY CUFFED when they tased him! WTF????!!!

http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_212104562.shtml

How could he threaten ANYONE cuffed and on the ground? These cops should be prosecuted for using a torture device.

If some fuckwad tases me for no good reason, he better keep it on until I'm dead, because that shit I would not forget or forgive.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[normiss 848]

cause you know if you even THINK WTF during an altercation with law enforcement you're "resisting".

The entire "legal system" backs up lying cops all the time. Add to that the fact that they count on the accused not being able to afford to defend themselves...and you have our current legal system. too much power through the entire process in my mind...of course I'll probably deserve to be tasered for that opinion.
when I was growing up...cops actually TALKED to you...

[Remster 30]

Quote

Quote

>Good thing you don't live around here.

Your one warning.

For what? Telling some little faggot I don't like the way they refer to cops? Fucking punk can post all day so-called song lyrics about killing cops, call them pigs, etc., but I tell him he's lucky he don't live around here and you blow a gasket.

Bye bye!

Remster

[watchdog2 0]

WELCOME TO AMERICA!!

Ya know, this really proves the direction our country is facing, and it's really sad. It seems the moment anyone has more of an open mind and starts to question things, they are hauled away.

The reason Kerry nevered questioned Bush was that they are ON THE SAME SIDE. Not in a political party sense, but in a BROTHERHOOD sense.

[skycop 0]

Hmm.....
Armed with two knives and a hammer.......
Guess they could have shot her with a bunch of beanbags or other impact items.
The officers could have bum-rushed her and got stabbed, but wait, that's what we get paid to do right?
You or I have no idea what happened in this situation, only the ones present do. I don't rush to judgement, especially based on media accounts.
Guess I am a pussy because I have no desire to rush ANYONE with a knife, let alone two and a hammer.
A tazer would let me resolve situations from a distance.
If you have read all my posts you we see that we don't carry tazers, also if officers abuse them or use them in lieu of good communication skills then they should be disciplined.

But as it usually goes when people are confronted with facts in this forum, some in the thread have started name calling.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Armour666 0]

Quote

cause you know if you even THINK WTF during an altercation with law enforcement you're "resisting".

The entire "legal system" backs up lying cops all the time. Add to that the fact that they count on the accused not being able to afford to defend themselves...and you have our current legal system. too much power through the entire process in my mind...of course I'll probably deserve to be tasered for that opinion.
when I was growing up...cops actually TALKED to you...

cops actually TALKED to you. Thats the key I lived in a bug city and they knew most of us kids and teenagers not because we were in trouble but they actualy stoped and talked to us, not down to us or dictate to us we had a lot more respect for that then what I often see today from many police and thier attitueds (Along with the unions attituedes) of what a police officer is and thier standing and athority.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Zipp0 1]

2 knives AND a hammer? So, does this lady have 3 arms, or is she one of them people who can use their feet like hands?

Anyway, I see no problem with tasering her, but I wonder how effective a taser is if it takes 10 times to get the desired effect. I have seen videos of people who conditioned themselves to a taser and can continue to function while being tasered. It just takes some concentration.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[normiss 848]

given that this person was in a wheelchair, would I be wrong to assume it would take at least one arm to manuever even a little bit??? Do you honestly think you would have to "bum rush" a handicapped person?
I think most of us could handle a person in that situation. It's pretty damn hard to handle two knives and a hammer with one hand, while wheeling around in a wheelchair. But I'm sure after 10 tasers....she was finally aprehended safely. Oh wait SHE DIED!

I'll retract the name calling...but I'll never understand the need for multiple offiers to apply multiple tasers to a woman in a wheelchair.
I doubt any jury will feel differently for that matter.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I'm not disputing they are less lethal, or non-lethal or whatever you want to call it. The tazer is not the problem, it's the suspects actions, lifestyle or both that have caused untimely deaths. These deaths are not limited to tazers, so all types of force or less lethal force should be banned then right?
Examples:

During a disturbance after a baseball game, Pepperball guns are fired into a crowd to disperse them. They are basiclly paintball guns that fire paintballs filled with powdered OC. A potentially uninvolved female gets hit in the eye and dies.

why did you pick this example? By your own words, it doesn't appear that her lifestyle or actions lead to her untimely death.

And yes, this example suggests that firing paintballs into the crowd is not a suitable response. You're gambling that the rounds will only hit people in the hards spots on their body, not in the eyes, mouth, ears, temple, neck, groin, etc.

At the very least, come clean. Say 'we knew someone might die in the process, but the riot had to be controlled.' Not 'we used non lethal force to quell the riot, and someone accidentally died.'

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Q&A session: A chance for people to ask questions, not for them to present their views unless asked.

If you can't understand the difference then I don't know what to tell you other than to attend a few of each and try to compare them.

Willard's banned for some time, but I'm sure he can read.

Every Senate Confirmation hearing (or 9/11 investigation) is supposed to be a Q&A with the subject, but sure looks to me like a place where Senators grandstand and present their own views, with a few leading questions thrown in.

[skycop 0]

You don't know the facts, nor do I. Commenting on something based purely based on media accounts is a foolish thing to do.

And yes a jury will decide the facts as they are presented.

The point of this thread was the tazing of the kid in Florida.

I tried to state facts as they exist, based on my over 20yrs experience. The court of public opinion means much less with the advent of the 24hr news cycle.

There a literally thousands upon thousands of police/citizen interactions daily in this country. Many of these are under very stressful and dynamic conditions for the public and the officer, and yet they are resolved without incident. The incidents are newsworthy because they are rare, they also feed the 24 hour beast. I also deal with the media in a medium to large market weekly, sometimes daily. I understand what ratings and sweeps week mean. The media rarely get the all the facts right, they are human just like we are.

In all the cases listed in this thread, the tazer or force was used in response to some type of action taken by the suspect. The cops are not running around tazing people for no reason, it just doesn't happen. Some may not like the reason, but there is a reason. I work in a urban area, I can tell you without hesitation we do every thing we can to avoid using force. It hurts and it causes a great deal of paperwork.

My "fun meter" is running in the red on this thread. The VAST majority of cops want to do their jobs to the very best they can. The ones who use force on a regular basis don't last very long.

There is one poster in this thread who probably doesn't like cops much, but he at least understands why they do what they do, when they do it.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

Not in the least bit, it appears the pepperball gun was used improperly by firing into the crowd.
The point is you weren't there, I wasn't either. I said appears.
The point was any weapon is dangerous, for all we know it was used properly, firing at the lower body and it missed, or she could have ducked into the round, we don't know.
BUT pepperball guns are still a useful tool, as is OC, as is open handed force, you failed to rebut those.

You also forgot the ACTIONS part, having knives and a hammer would count in the actions part. Being in a rioting crowd is never a good idea, bad things can happen (not just from the cops). None of these things happened in vacuum.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Zipp0 1]

It's like anythign else - a few cops make a bad decision and it reflects pooryly on all cops.

Buut this was campus security, and I doubt their training isn't up to many/most police force standards.

LA Police Chief: So what are your qualifications for vice here in LA?

Job Prospect: Well, I broke up keggers at University of Florida for 3 years and tased that dipshit who thought he had free speech.

LA Police Chief: Hmmm, I see. Thank you for coming in....

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

I just want to say thanks for the Job you do. 10 years ago I am certain that I would have been one of the "Fuck You Pig" crowd too.

Amazing what a little maturity and real world experience will teach you.

Some people will never acknowledge that actions have consequences. Act like an Ass and struggle with Cops, You get Taserd until you can be subdued and taken into custody or you can cooperate with them and NOT get Tasered and/or taken into custody. Seems reasonable to me.

There ARE bad cops out there but fortunately they are relatively few and far between. The Officers in this Video seem like they truly tried to control this situation without violence, the kid would not quit struggling even after they had him on the ground. The kid left them little choice. It was HIS action that brought about the response. Actions have consequences.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Hey I would have tazered anyobody I did not like the looks of, but that's just me right?

I will tazer anyone the needs it

I would tazer in the morning, I would tazer in the evening, I would tazer everymotherfucking person I wanted all over this land!


Sing it everyone!

[skycop 0]

University police officers normally are among the most educated. Many that I know have advanced degrees. Getting street smarts on a college campus can be a challenge though.

Police work had changed vastly over the last 20 yrs. Most of our new hires have degrees, some have advanced degrees.

The bad thing is that your LAPD example probably isn't right. They would hire the guy, most large departments are having a hard time finding qualified people. In a decent economy most 20 somethings don't want to put up with all the bullshit cops do, many of the things we discussed here.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Zipp0 1]

Will you be getting the "Don't Tase Me, Bro" t-shirt?

It's almost too good to resist.

http://www.atomictumor.com/2007/09/19/the-inevitable-dont-tase-me-bro-t-shirt/

And BTW, do't misinterpret my disagreement with the way this situation was handled to mean that I would ever act like this dumbass. The one time I was taken into custody the cop had the cuffs off me and me in the passenger seat within a few minutes, since he saw that I was't a criminal. Probably was against all sorts of policy/law, but it all worked out.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[skycop 0]

Well,
You are warped...................

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Thanatos340 1]

Love the Shirt... Gotta have one.

Actually the "bro" comment may have been what really got him tasered. Kinda racist if you ask me and I dont think the large Black cop liked that very much.

"Call me a Bro, You spoiled little white College Kid".. "I will show you How THE MAN treats a Bro".. "ZAP!!!" "Now you see how a Bro Feels" "ZAP!!" "You Honkey Mo Fo!!""ZAP!!" "bro on that for a while"

[skycop 0]

They are pretty funny, I saw one and I just might.
I did buy an "Officer Friendly?" shirt at Lollapoluza from the national socialist party. The shirt is black with a cop in a gaskmask and wielding a big nightstick.
You should have seen the look they gave me when I bought it (I look like a cop), those socialists sure have good deals on t-shirts, I think it was $5.00 and I wear it all the time, it's worn well too.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"