billvon 2,995 #26 September 23, 2007 >Bad precedent. Do that once and then people will think it's ok. It is OK. This is the USA. >If it looks stupid but it works, then it's not stupid. Applies to bombs >as well as anything. ?? What does that have to do with anything? A laptop computer looks FAR more like a bomb than this thing does. Shall we put all laptop carrying travelers in jail? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #27 September 23, 2007 a fashion crime, maybe. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #28 September 23, 2007 Quote a fashion crime, maybe. .jim Fashion crime sounds right. What about this? Would this be a major security infraction? http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/8a5b/ "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #29 September 23, 2007 QuoteOh my god! People will think it's ok to walk around with not-bombs on them? Preposterous! No, people will think it is ok to joke around about bombs or carry around "not-bombs" while in an airport. But then, maybe you think that is funny in some sick, twisted way. QuoteNo, it makes you questionably successful, while making you look unquestionably stupid. Charging people for a crime that's not really a crime is stupid. That is your opinion. I happen to not share it. Using a cell phone, as part of an initiator, jury rigged to an unexploded artillery shell with scraps of wire taken from burned out buildings looks stupid as Hell, but it works. Unfortunately it works all too well. As for what is a crime and what isn't, best thing for you to do is to call a lawer and ask or do a bit of research. QuoteShe was wearing (get ready for this again because I'm not sure you heard me last time) lights on her shirt: the back of which (once again) suggested that she was in a college electronics course. Yes, I am aware that she was wearing lights on her shirt. Maybe you, in all your wisdom, can discern that from a crude home-made detonating device from a distance but not everyone is blessed with your unerring vision and unsurpassed intelligence. The security people are trained to deal with security threats, not as electrical engineers. Maybe you would be willing to spend your free time at airports to help them separate real bombs from "not-bombs". As far as the back of her shirt goes, what she had written on it is meaningless. People who have taken real bombs onto planes have worn all different kinds of clothes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #30 September 23, 2007 And, yes, N23x, I'm thinking the same thing you are about that shirt - PM me. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #31 September 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteBe glad it wasn't really a bomb. The girl has been charged, as she should. I'm dissatisfied that it wasn't. If it was, that might suggest to me that airport security stopped a legitimate threat to security. Instead, they are hassling and charging an innocent woman when all they had to do was say, "ooops, not a bomb? on your way, miss". Would you call the police if you saw this girl walking in a store you were at? .jim Not much of a threat to an airliner if she's at K-Mart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #32 September 23, 2007 oh god, that is horrible... I'm buying 1: I'd say I should watch my ass when I'm consulting at the airport, but I live in Colorado (so not everybody is a butthurt, trigger happy, complete moron out here). .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #33 September 23, 2007 >No, people will think it is ok to joke around about bombs or carry >around "not-bombs" while in an airport. She wasn't joking about it. And yes, it is OK to carry "not-bombs" (like, say, MP3 players) in an airport. >Using a cell phone, as part of an initiator, jury rigged to an unexploded >artillery shell with scraps of wire taken from burned out buildings looks >stupid as Hell, but it works. Yes. Do you advocate arresting people with cellphones? Cellphones are, by your description, more dangerous than what this women was wearing. >Yes, I am aware that she was wearing lights on her shirt. Maybe you, in >all your wisdom, can discern that from a crude home-made detonating >device from a distance but not everyone is blessed with your unerring >vision and unsurpassed intelligence. Security people that cannot tell the difference between a light and a bomb should be re-tasked where they will be more effective - say as a baggage handler or fast-food service specialist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #34 September 23, 2007 Quote >Bad precedent. Do that once and then people will think it's ok. It is OK. This is the USA. >If it looks stupid but it works, then it's not stupid. Applies to bombs >as well as anything. ?? What does that have to do with anything? A laptop computer looks FAR more like a bomb than this thing does. Shall we put all laptop carrying travelers in jail? Oh, so you think it would be ok for people to walk around airports joking about bombs, wearing or carrying stuff that looks like a bomb? Wow. Just wow. Someone posted that it looked too crude to be a bomb. How can anything look too stupid to be a bomb ??? The security people did the right thing. The girl deserved to be charged. Anyone who thinks different deserves to be on a plane that has a real bomb aboard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #35 September 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteBe glad it wasn't really a bomb. The girl has been charged, as she should. I'm dissatisfied that it wasn't. If it was, that might suggest to me that airport security stopped a legitimate threat to security. Instead, they are hassling and charging an innocent woman when all they had to do was say, "ooops, not a bomb? on your way, miss". Would you call the police if you saw this girl walking in a store you were at? .jim Not much of a threat to an airliner if she's at K-Mart. So it's only threats with airliners you're concerned about? Boy am I glad this wasn't about protecting public safety! Seriously, if you think it's worth throwing such a shit fit in the airport, it should be worth throwing an equal shit fit in ANY public location. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #36 September 23, 2007 Quote>No, people will think it is ok to joke around about bombs or carry >around "not-bombs" while in an airport. She wasn't joking about it. And yes, it is OK to carry "not-bombs" (like, say, MP3 players) in an airport. >Using a cell phone, as part of an initiator, jury rigged to an unexploded >artillery shell with scraps of wire taken from burned out buildings looks >stupid as Hell, but it works. Yes. Do you advocate arresting people with cellphones? Cellphones are, by your description, more dangerous than what this women was wearing. >Yes, I am aware that she was wearing lights on her shirt. Maybe you, in >all your wisdom, can discern that from a crude home-made detonating >device from a distance but not everyone is blessed with your unerring >vision and unsurpassed intelligence. Security people that cannot tell the difference between a light and a bomb should be re-tasked where they will be more effective - say as a baggage handler or fast-food service specialist. Hey! Maybe YOU can volunteer your time as well! You seem to be so smart, it shouldn't be any problem at all for you to tell who is and who isn't carrying a bomb. Hell, we could do away with all other security if only you would work at the airports and keep us all safe. While you're at it you could tell us who is in a good mood and who isn't. After all, you have ESP and can tell just from reading about the girl that she wasn't pulling a prank of some kind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #37 September 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBe glad it wasn't really a bomb. The girl has been charged, as she should. I'm dissatisfied that it wasn't. If it was, that might suggest to me that airport security stopped a legitimate threat to security. Instead, they are hassling and charging an innocent woman when all they had to do was say, "ooops, not a bomb? on your way, miss". Would you call the police if you saw this girl walking in a store you were at? .jim Not much of a threat to an airliner if she's at K-Mart. So it's only threats with airliners you're concerned about? Boy am I glad this wasn't about protecting public safety! Seriously, if you think it's worth throwing such a shit fit in the airport, it should be worth throwing an equal shit fit in ANY public location. .jim You don't think protecting an airliner full of people is in the interest of public safety? Maybe we should throw "shit fits" like that more often. Maybe then there would be fewer smartasses running around acting like idiots. So, are you willing to do your part and pull a shift working security at your local airport? If not then maybe you should just shut the hell up. They are doing a tough job the best way they know how and don't need wise-assed know-it-alls telling them how to do their job, especially one's who aren't willing to give it a try themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #38 September 23, 2007 Alright. You are incorrigible, so this will hopefully be my last post on the matter. "Looks like a bomb" is arbitrary, and completely subjective. Punishing someone for something that is so loosely defined is wrong. Was the initial response correct? Yes. If they didn't know it was a bomb, and then wanted to check her out, then check her out. Upon discovering it wasn't a bomb, she should have been released on her merry way. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #39 September 23, 2007 >Oh, so you think it would be ok for people to walk around airports joking >about bombs . . . No. She didn't joke about carrying bombs, and no one is suggesting that is OK. That's your strawman. >wearing or carrying stuff that looks like a bomb? No. This stuff didn't look like a bomb. >The security people did the right thing. The girl deserved to be charged. >Anyone who thinks different deserves to be on a plane that has a real >bomb aboard. Anyone who thinks they did the RIGHT thing deserves a day in jail for carrying a cellphone (a bomb trigger by your description) into an airport. >Hey! Maybe YOU can volunteer your time as well! No thanks! Anyone with an IQ of around 100 can tell a light from a bomb. All we need are average-intelligence security people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #40 September 23, 2007 Hmmm- did you register JUST to participate in this thread? Are you banned under another name or something? Real Name: No name entered. Email: No email entered. Jump Profile Home DZ: No home dropzone entered. Gear Container: No container entered. Main Canopy: No main entered. Reserve Canopy: No reserve entered. AAD: No AAD entered. Forum Activity Status: Registered User Registered: Sep 19, 2007, 2:50 PM Last Logon: Sep 22, 2007, 6:40 PM Local Time: Sep 22, 2007, 7:32 PM... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #41 September 23, 2007 Quote >Oh, so you think it would be ok for people to walk around airports joking >about bombs . . . No. She didn't joke about carrying bombs, and no one is suggesting that is OK. That's your strawman. >wearing or carrying stuff that looks like a bomb? No. This stuff didn't look like a bomb. >The security people did the right thing. The girl deserved to be charged. >Anyone who thinks different deserves to be on a plane that has a real >bomb aboard. Anyone who thinks they did the RIGHT thing deserves a day in jail for carrying a cellphone (a bomb trigger by your description) into an airport. >Hey! Maybe YOU can volunteer your time as well! No thanks! Anyone with an IQ of around 100 can tell a light from a bomb. All we need are average-intelligence security people. Anyone with an IQ above 50 knows a bomb can be made to look like a light. Or anything else for that matter. Hell, a bomb can be made from a light. So, pray tell, if you have a light...and a bomb made from an identical light...sitting next to each other, which is which? One is completely safe, the other can bring down a jet. Lives depend upon telling them apart. It is no place for jokes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #42 September 23, 2007 QuoteYou are incorrigible Seems we have something in common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #43 September 23, 2007 QuoteHmmm- did you register JUST to participate in this thread? Are you banned under another name or something? Real Name: No name entered. Email: No email entered. Jump Profile Home DZ: No home dropzone entered. Gear Container: No container entered. Main Canopy: No main entered. Reserve Canopy: No reserve entered. AAD: No AAD entered. Forum Activity Status: Registered User Registered: Sep 19, 2007, 2:50 PM Last Logon: Sep 22, 2007, 6:40 PM Local Time: Sep 22, 2007, 7:32 PM What concern is it of yours? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #44 September 23, 2007 QuoteAnyone with an IQ above 50 knows a bomb can be made to look like a light. Or anything else for that matter. Hell, a bomb can be made from a light. So, pray tell, if you have a light...and a bomb made from an identical light...sitting next to each other, which is which? One is completely safe, the other can bring down a jet. Lives depend upon telling them apart. It is no place for jokes. Unsure Again, there is no evidence that she was "joking". Regarding the fact that a bomb can be made to look like just about anything, why don't Ipod wearers, Walkman wearers, Laptop PC carriers, etc., get charged with a crime for walking into the UNSECURED part of the airport? "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #45 September 23, 2007 >It is no place for jokes. You keep bringing this up so I'll try one more time, this time in caps, bold and italics: NO ONE TOLD JOKES ABOUT A BOMB. Reading the subject matter before posting about it can avoid such misunderstandings. >Anyone with an IQ above 50 knows a bomb can be made to look like > a light. Or anything else for that matter. Yes, it can. And indeed it is far easier to hide a large bomb in a laptop computer or radio. So I'll ask you again - shall we arrest people with laptops or radios? Or would you prefer security agents who can, with reasonable confidence, tell a laptop with blinking lights from a bomb? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #46 September 23, 2007 Quote>It is no place for jokes. You keep bringing this up so I'll try one more time, this time in caps, bold and italics: NO ONE TOLD JOKES ABOUT A BOMB. Reading the subject matter before posting about it can avoid such misunderstandings. >Anyone with an IQ above 50 knows a bomb can be made to look like > a light. Or anything else for that matter. Yes, it can. And indeed it is far easier to hide a large bomb in a laptop computer or radio. So I'll ask you again - shall we arrest people with laptops or radios? Or would you prefer security agents who can, with reasonable confidence, tell a laptop with blinking lights from a bomb? And I'll say it one more time, this time in real loud bold letters, You don't have to say "This is a joke" for the intent to be that of a joke!! I'm assuming that since the girl is a student at MIT she is aware of the regulations concerning jokes and such about bombs in airports, etc. and would be smart enough to not say it was a joke. If she was unaware then I am sadly disappointed in the intellectual quality of students these days at MIT. What you are suggesting is to let everything through that looks like a bomb on the assumption that it isn't. That makes no sense at all. Especially when you add in that you are also suggesting that security people should be able to tell, at a glance, what is a common electronic device and what is in reality a bomb. You yourself agreed that bombs can be made to look like anything you want, so where is the logic in that? It seems your way of handling security would be to just ask people if they are carrying a bomb and take their word for it. Then, if one brings down a jet full of people, you would just say, "Darn, we missed one. But at least we didn't hassle anybody for making a joke". No thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #47 September 23, 2007 >What you are suggesting is to let everything through that looks like a >bomb on the assumption that it isn't. I will ask you a third time. A laptop (with a flashing standby light) looks far more like a bomb than this thing, and indeed a more powerful bomb could be hidden within. If you were in charge, would you arrest everyone with a laptop? >It seems your way of handling security would be to just ask people if they > are carrying a bomb and take their word for it. No. My way of handling security would be to hire intelligent security personnel instead of morons. Intelligence solves a lot of problems; would have solved this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falling_Brick 0 #48 September 23, 2007 Quote >What you are suggesting is to let everything through that looks like a >bomb on the assumption that it isn't. I will ask you a third time. A laptop (with a flashing standby light) looks far more like a bomb than this thing, and indeed a more powerful bomb could be hidden within. If you were in charge, would you arrest everyone with a laptop? >It seems your way of handling security would be to just ask people if they > are carrying a bomb and take their word for it. No. My way of handling security would be to hire intelligent security personnel instead of morons. Intelligence solves a lot of problems; would have solved this one. Laptops and other electronic devices are scanned and checked at the regular security screening stations. If the laptop with the big blinking light is a bomb they will find it there. That is why we don't stop everyone carrying a laptop....duh.You have a lot of balls calling the security people a bunch of morons when they aren't even here to defend themselves. Way to go, Big Man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #49 September 23, 2007 >Laptops and other electronic devices are scanned and checked at the >regular security screening stations. If the laptop with the big blinking light >is a bomb they will find it there. Excellent point! Had they used such a commonsense procedure here, then there would have been no problem. It would truly be moronic to arrest someone for carrying a laptop (or a flashing light) rather than determining if it was indeed a bomb. >You have a lot of balls calling the security people a bunch of morons . . .\ Stupid is as stupid does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #50 September 23, 2007 And they would have caught her "bomb" the second she'd gone through the metal detector. So what? As far as TSA being morons, well, come on buddy. Seriously, come on. Seriously? But you guys can all talk about how you're gonna kick some engineer ass around the watercooler on monday. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
