Darius11 12
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Darius11 12
Quoteyou keep saying that people should stick to the subject of the post but after reading your posts it seems that you are the one who is mostly busy spreading cheap propoganda and half truth...
We have been threw this before.
You claim half-truths and propaganda yet you have NEVER shown any proof that any of my claims about Israel are incorrect or a lie you just CLAIM they are.
I admire the Jewish people for their sense of community, however a sense of camaraderie does not change what is wrong or right.
Quotesending human beings strapped with explosives sounds much better.
Hey lets give them the same weapons and support we give Israel and see if any of them need to blow them selves up.
They’re not crazy they are desperate. That amount of desperation is something that says a lot about the situation by it self.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
Quote
The rest of this thread is a rehash of the same old lines of bullshit.
Ain't that the truth?
QuoteDo you believe Israel has the right to exist?
Do you believe Israel has the right of self-defense?
Do you believe that Israel has the right to any land that they can forcibly take?
Do you believe that Israel has the right to ignore human rights and support an apartheid occupation?
Amazon 7
QuoteDo you believe that Israel has the right to any land that they can forcibly take?
YES.. and they need to keep the land until a viable peace is made. Until then if it provides their people more security as a buffer against a warring nation then so be it.
They made peace with Egypt... the land was returned...get it???
QuoteDo you believe that Israel has the right to ignore human rights and support an apartheid occupation?
Do the Arabs who stayed in Israel have more rights than a typical Arab in Syria or Iran or the rest of their repressive and neighbors who live under dictatorships?
Do those Arabs have more rights than the Jews did that USED to exist in the neighboring countries...until many of them were murdered and driven out???
QuoteQuoteDo you believe that Israel has the right to any land that they can forcibly take?
YES.. and they need to keep the land until a viable peace is made. Until then if it provides their people more security as a buffer against a warring nation then so be it.
They made peace with Egypt... the land was returned...get it???QuoteDo you believe that Israel has the right to ignore human rights and support an apartheid occupation?
Do the Arabs who stayed in Israel have more rights than a typical Arab in Syria or Iran or the rest of their repressive and neighbors who live under dictatorships?
Do those Arabs have more rights than the Jews did that USED to exist in the neighboring countries...until many of them were murdered and driven out???
See post # 36.
And until that changes and there's actually an honest, balanced discussion about the issue, this exercise will continue to amount to:
"Ouch"
"Quit it"
"Ouch"
"Quit it"
"Ouch"....
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
You gonnna answer mine with more questions? Unfortunately, I must pull the plug and drive back to Montana. Will continue in a few days. Really; no kidding.QuoteQuoteDo you believe Israel has the right to exist?
Do you believe Israel has the right of self-defense?
Do you believe that Israel has the right to any land that they can forcibly take?
Do you believe that Israel has the right to ignore human rights and support an apartheid occupation?
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
QuoteYou gonnna answer mine with more questions? Unfortunately, I must pull the plug and drive back to Montana. Will continue in a few days. Really; no kidding.QuoteQuoteDo you believe Israel has the right to exist?
Do you believe Israel has the right of self-defense?
Do you believe that Israel has the right to any land that they can forcibly take?
Do you believe that Israel has the right to ignore human rights and support an apartheid occupation?
To answer yours.
Yes
and
Yes
falxori 0
Quoteyet you have NEVER shown any proof that any of my claims about Israel are incorrect or a lie you just CLAIM they are.
I can't argue with your twisted views of things, you have the right to pick and chose the facts that suits your views and disregard the rest. some of your "facts" are indeed truth, but wildly taken out of context and lacking the big picture.
to name a few:
- the west bank belongs to the palestinians:
how do you conclude that?
because they were there first? wrong (unless you decide that history began 200 years ago). BOTH nations have a valid claim over this land. even if I believe these lands historically belong to Israel, i accept the fact that there is another nation here that calls these lands home.
- the lands should be given back:
why exactly? throughout history land was acquired by war and the winner usually kepts it. shall I remind you that it wasn't Israel who started these wars?
anyhow, again, there is the right and the practical. Israel has accepted the fact that its better for it to give up these parts of the homeland for the sake of peace. sadly, every time Israel pulls back, it gets more violence (lebanon, Gaza, etc.)
- Iran and Syria:
no, they have not attacked Israel directly but in my book, sending others to fight for them (while blowing themselves up) is far worse. you ask why Iran must not get nukes? well, its not because it might attack Israel, its because at some point, when a nuke explodes in the middle of Manhattan, there will be no return address.
- appartheid:
again, funny...
Israel has a population of 20% israeli arabs (basically palestinians with Israeli citizenship) who have the same rights BY LAW as I do (they are exempt from military service). they can elect and get elected like in any other democracy.
if you refer to the palestinians in the west bank, well they are NOT israeli citizens, they are PA citizens.
is their life hard? no doubt. but when you elect Hamas as your government you've brought it upon yourself.
QuoteHey lets give them the same weapons and support we give Israel and see if any of them need to blow them selves up.
so let me get that straight, your solution for a terrorist group who uses whatever means it has to blow out civilians (on purpose) is to give them better weapons?
i'm sure that would lead us to a better world...
O
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."
Darius11 12
QuoteI can't argue with your twisted views of things, you have the right to pick and chose the facts that suits your views and disregard the rest. some of your "facts" are indeed truth, but wildly taken out of context and lacking the big picture.
My twisted views are this. That if we are to hold a standard it should be applied to all and not compromised because of a sense of camaraderie.
If killing civilians is bad with a suicide bomb it is equally bad with a rocket. Dead is dead.
If you have time read this thread.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2961313;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
Quotethe lands should be given back:
why exactly? throughout history land was acquired by war and the winner usually kepts it. shall I remind you that it wasn't Israel who started these wars?
Wrong Israel started this war when they started killing villagers so they could take their land. May I remind you that there was not a single bomb denoted by the Palestinians in Israel until an Israeli man decided to massacre 24 Muslims who were peacefully praying.
Quoteappartheid:
When you have "Jews only" roads or any thing that is specified for a certain race or certain religion that should be for the public regardless of race color or creed, guesses what we call that?
Quoteso let me get that straight, your solution for a terrorist group who uses whatever means it has to blow out civilians (on purpose) is to give them better weapons?
i'm sure that would lead us to a better world...
Come one Ori you know better then that.
One I did not mention this was a solution. You said they blow them selves up. I said the reason they retaliate by the means of a suicide bombs is they do not have the weapons Israel has to protect them selves. So if you issue is with suicide bombs and not the act of killing that could be solved by giving them the same support and weapons Israel receives. However if you do have an issue with killing of civilians then I believe by all counts Israel’s hand are the most bloody.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
Amazon 7
QuoteWhen you have "Jews only" roads or any thing that is specified for a certain race or certain religion guesses what we call that?
So I guess the Iranian policy of MUSLIM only( all others are repressed with violence) is a shining light to aspire too.....
I guess you give a pass to the human rights abuses of ALL the muslim countires in the region....gee isnt that a bit HYPOCRITICAL....
Darius11 12
\QuoteQuoteWhen you have "Jews only" roads or any thing that is specified for a certain race or certain religion guesses what we call that?
So I guess the Iranian policy of MUSLIM only( all others are repressed with violence) is a shining light to aspire too.....
Where when and what the heck are you talking about?
We not only have minorities that are Jews we even have Christians and you know what the government does to them………………….NOTHING they even bend the Islamic countries rules so the Christians can have there whine and pork, and we even have a Jewish person in the Iranin parliament.
Seriously now are you even trying to make sense or at least make an effort to mention something that’s based in reality and truth, or you just trying to start shit?
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
Amazon 7
QuoteWe not only have minorities that are Jews we even have Christians and you know what the government does to them………………….NOTHING they even bend the Islamic countries rules so the Christians can have there whine and pork, and we even have a Jewish person in the Iranin parliament.
BZZZT wrong yet again....
http://coranet.radicalparty.org/pressreleases/press_release.php?func=detail&par=7735
The election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been accompanied by a dramatic increase in the repression of all Iranian citizens’ freedom, and in particular that of ethnic minorities.
In the Arab-populated region of Khuzestan, 100 days after the recent uprising in Ahwaz, Iranian authorities have arrested 30 Arabs demonstrating against a fraud scandal involving the new regime. Also the recent execution of two young men for alleged homosexuality is a manifestation of the increased discrimination against ethnic Arabs. The London-based Times newspaper reports that the young men executed were originally from the Arab-populated province of Khuzestan.
In the region of Balochistan, the construction of the new India-Pakistan-Iran pipeline is raising concerns over exploitation of natural resources and the supposed threat that indigenous Balochis pose to this enterprise.
Clashes between Iranian authorities and ethnic Kurds have been reported also in the cities of Oshnavieh and Mahabad.
The UNPO condemns the Government’s repressive policies against all the Iranian citizens. Iran is a multi-ethnic country in which half of the population belongs to ethnic minorities such as Azeri, Gilaki and Mazandarani, Kurds, Arabs, Lurs, Balochis, Turkmen. While Iranian minorities are committed to co-existing in peace in a secular, democratic and federal Iran, the government’s policies of discrimination and persecution impede any peaceful change in the region.
The UNPO calls on the European Union and on all governments, which entertain ties with the Iranian Government, to suspend all relations with the Iranian regime until the respect of the most basic human rights for all the Iranian citizens and ethnic minorities is restored.
Amazon 7
Syria sound like such a WONDERFUL place...
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/63649.htm
Syria: Repression of Democracy and Human Rights Activists
The United States is concerned by the Syrian Government’s increased repression of democracy and human rights activists. In recent days, individuals peacefully advocating the fundamental human rights of Syrian citizens have been subjected to intimidation and arbitrary detention by Syrian authorities. In other instances, non-violent demonstrators were attacked by a mob while Syrian security personnel stood idly by.
The United States deplores the atmosphere of fear being fostered by the Syrian authorities. We call upon the Government of Syria to cease its harassment of Syrians who seek to defend their rights and to bring democratic change to their country. The United States stands with the people of Syria in their desire for freedom and democracy
http://www.meforum.org/article/17
Disappearing Christians of the Middle East
by Ray J. Mouawad
Middle East Quarterly
Winter 2001
In a few countries of the Arab Middle East, independence resulted in the creation of new states that were basically secular in their structure. Their choice of secularism expressed symbolically a wish to join the modern world and a rupture with their tribal and Ottoman past. Nevertheless the dream of excluding religion from the public arena has been difficult to achieve and has often degenerated into authoritarian and nationalistic types of government. This has been the case with both Syria and Iraq. These authoritarian, nationalistic regimes often embarked on routes that prompted Christians to begin a process of migration toward the West.
In reality, even the so-called secular states were rarely truly so. Many included mention of Islam or the Shari‘a (Islamic sacred law) in their constitutions. Most regimes that officially chose a secular nationalistic system also favored the supremacy of one ethnic or religious community over the others. In Syria, this was the ‘Alawis; in Iraq, it was the Arabic-speaking Sunnis.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/63649.htm
Syria: Repression of Democracy and Human Rights Activists
The United States is concerned by the Syrian Government’s increased repression of democracy and human rights activists. In recent days, individuals peacefully advocating the fundamental human rights of Syrian citizens have been subjected to intimidation and arbitrary detention by Syrian authorities. In other instances, non-violent demonstrators were attacked by a mob while Syrian security personnel stood idly by.
The United States deplores the atmosphere of fear being fostered by the Syrian authorities. We call upon the Government of Syria to cease its harassment of Syrians who seek to defend their rights and to bring democratic change to their country. The United States stands with the people of Syria in their desire for freedom and democracy
http://www.meforum.org/article/17
Disappearing Christians of the Middle East
by Ray J. Mouawad
Middle East Quarterly
Winter 2001
In a few countries of the Arab Middle East, independence resulted in the creation of new states that were basically secular in their structure. Their choice of secularism expressed symbolically a wish to join the modern world and a rupture with their tribal and Ottoman past. Nevertheless the dream of excluding religion from the public arena has been difficult to achieve and has often degenerated into authoritarian and nationalistic types of government. This has been the case with both Syria and Iraq. These authoritarian, nationalistic regimes often embarked on routes that prompted Christians to begin a process of migration toward the West.
In reality, even the so-called secular states were rarely truly so. Many included mention of Islam or the Shari‘a (Islamic sacred law) in their constitutions. Most regimes that officially chose a secular nationalistic system also favored the supremacy of one ethnic or religious community over the others. In Syria, this was the ‘Alawis; in Iraq, it was the Arabic-speaking Sunnis.
Darius11 12
http://www.radicalparty.org/index_moratoria_en.php
Wow i should go to radicalparty.com for my news ha?
Ok whatever makes you feel right
You have already expressed your views about “kill every one in the Middle East and let god sort them out” If I remember correctly. That is indeed a radical view.
I am done arguing with you the only reason I do lately is you say things that are so easily proven wrong just like John, mark or Juan you make it incredibly easy to pull you card over and over again.
But you go head and site your “news” sources
Wow i should go to radicalparty.com for my news ha?
Ok whatever makes you feel right
You have already expressed your views about “kill every one in the Middle East and let god sort them out” If I remember correctly. That is indeed a radical view.
I am done arguing with you the only reason I do lately is you say things that are so easily proven wrong just like John, mark or Juan you make it incredibly easy to pull you card over and over again.
But you go head and site your “news” sources
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
Amazon 7
QuoteWow i should go to radicalparty.com for my news ha?
I think it beats the propaganda the mullahs are dishing out.
Quote
- the west bank belongs to the palestinians:
how do you conclude that?
because they were there first? wrong (unless you decide that history began 200 years ago). BOTH nations have a valid claim over this land.
I've shown you repeatedly that this is not the case. That you hold on to this belief and continue to support the forcible land grabbing in the West Bank is why Israel has a problem and why I have a problem with Israel.
My argument is based on the Geneva Conventions, numerous UN resolutions, maps, and public statements by Israeli and US officials. Your assertion that the land is in dispute comes from where?
Acutely no it was posted on post 9 by another person, you should read the thread before you decide to attack.
Attacking without facts is never a good idea
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