Who is middle class?

[rehmwa 2]

Extend that to eating -

proles get a bone or bit of gristle? they use a napkin and try to hide it under or on their plate and it's a bit embarassing - image is more important that fact

uppers? take it out of their mouth, set it down on the plate and continue, no need to hide it, these things will happen

lowers? eat it (that's GOOD gristle), or spit it out on the floor for the dawg

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pirana 0]

Ah, good one; and a fellow student of TDH's I see.

What amazes me most in the study of class in America, is that the further you get from the middle, in either direction, the more comfortable people are with who they are. Pretensions, concerns about image/reputation, and keeping up appearances (material belongings) is rampant in the middle classes and virtually non-existent at the extremes.

Also, the bulk of those that deny class divisions even exist come from the middle. I think discussion of class division upsets them in a two-fold, and dichotomous way:

1 - One the one hand, they reject the established fact that class mobility is extremely limited. They want to believe that if they just work a little harder and/or make a little more money they will be accepted in the upper circles. Ain't gonna happen. You can make all the cash you want, you won't be hanging with the Mellons, Vanderbilts, or Kennedys anytime soon. Unless you have celebrity status, then they might invite you along (Spears for example). Hanging with newly rich athletes, rock stars, actors & actresses, dotcommers, etc is their version of slumming.

2 - It rubs them the wrong way because they quite literally believe in the all men created equal credo. They have a very difficult time accepting that you are either born to the manor - or not. It pisses them off that in the land of supposed equal opportunity for all, and all that mushy crap, there are people born to great privilege, who do not have to earn it at all.

Come to think of it, those are just variations on a point. Never mind.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[billvon 3,073]

>This will impact the service industry, the teaching world, the
>police, firemen...they all can't live in Tracy or Stockton and commute 80
>miles one way to here.

Eh, they'll live in Antioch and commute 50 miles by driving/BART. People in NYC do. Heck, I did it for a year. 8 miles driving to the train, 30 miles on the train, 6 miles via subway, 4 blocks to Wall St.

[kallend 2,106]

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But if we were to take your sidetrack, yeah, I'd say university professors in Illinois have no class.

Since the OP asked ""Who IS middle class, and what makes you that?", my comments are directly addressing her question.

Bullshit. Aside from some pendantic blather about one way to draw distinctions between groups, you haven't said squat about "Who IS middle class and what makes you that".

I can do pedantic blather too... middle class is the group of people who are not upper class nor lower class. Yeah... I'll back myself on the back for speaking to the question, while doing absolutely nothing the further it.

Yea Me!!!

I find it laughable that some people can't can't come to terms with groups being defined by financial well being.

Get over yourself.

That is a remarkably one-dimensional view of the world you display.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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But if we were to take your sidetrack, yeah, I'd say university professors in Illinois have no class.

Since the OP asked ""Who IS middle class, and what makes you that?", my comments are directly addressing her question.

Bullshit. Aside from some pendantic blather about one way to draw distinctions between groups, you haven't said squat about "Who IS middle class and what makes you that".

I can do pedantic blather too... middle class is the group of people who are not upper class nor lower class. Yeah... I'll back myself on the back for speaking to the question, while doing absolutely nothing the further it.

Yea Me!!!

I find it laughable that some people can't can't come to terms with groups being defined by financial well being.

Get over yourself.

That is a remarkably one-dimensional view of the world you display.

Okay perfesser, excluding financial considerations (income, net worth, etc.) how would you answer "what is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?"

[kallend 2,106]

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But if we were to take your sidetrack, yeah, I'd say university professors in Illinois have no class.

Since the OP asked ""Who IS middle class, and what makes you that?", my comments are directly addressing her question.

Bullshit. Aside from some pendantic blather about one way to draw distinctions between groups, you haven't said squat about "Who IS middle class and what makes you that".

I can do pedantic blather too... middle class is the group of people who are not upper class nor lower class. Yeah... I'll back myself on the back for speaking to the question, while doing absolutely nothing the further it.

Yea Me!!!

I find it laughable that some people can't can't come to terms with groups being defined by financial well being.

Get over yourself.

That is a remarkably one-dimensional view of the world you display.

Okay perfesser, excluding financial considerations (income, net worth, etc.) how would you answer "what is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?"

Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results, as has also been suggested already.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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I find it laughable that some people can't can't come to terms with groups being defined by financial well being.

Get over yourself.

That is a remarkably one-dimensional view of the world you display.

Okay perfesser, excluding financial considerations (income, net worth, etc.) how would you answer "what is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?"

Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results, as has also been suggested already.

LOL I didn't really think you'd answer the question... the question that was at the heart of the OP.

What a shame.

[rehmwa 2]

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Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results, as has also been suggested already.

I agree, the correct definition should be based solely on how one refers to the limo.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,106]

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I find it laughable that some people can't can't come to terms with groups being defined by financial well being.

Get over yourself.

That is a remarkably one-dimensional view of the world you display.

Okay perfesser, excluding financial considerations (income, net worth, etc.) how would you answer "what is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?"

Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results, as has also been suggested already.

LOL I didn't really think you'd answer the question... the question that was at the heart of the OP.

What a shame.

If you think the question has not been answered, then it reflects more poorly on you than on me.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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Okay perfesser, excluding financial considerations (income, net worth, etc.) how would you answer "what is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?"

Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results, as has also been suggested already.

LOL I didn't really think you'd answer the question... the question that was at the heart of the OP.

What a shame.

If you think the question has not been answered, then it reflects more poorly on you than on me.

Question: What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

Kallend's answer:Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results...blah, blah, blah...

D-

[kallend 2,106]

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Okay perfesser, excluding financial considerations (income, net worth, etc.) how would you answer "what is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?"

Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results, as has also been suggested already.

LOL I didn't really think you'd answer the question... the question that was at the heart of the OP.

What a shame.

If you think the question has not been answered, then it reflects more poorly on you than on me.

Question: What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

Kallend's answer:Multiple measures have already been suggested by several people in this thread.

Using just money leads to some absurd results...blah, blah, blah...

D-

Can't get your own way? You could try stamping your feet and holding your breath.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

And still - no direct answer to -

What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

tsk, tsk, tsk

[kallend 2,106]

Keep it up.

I saw some parents give in to their toddler's tantrum in a restaurant just last Saturday. Clearly they were middle class, preoccupied with appearances.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pirana 0]

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I agree, the correct definition should be based solely on how one refers to the limo.

Prole.

What time do you usually eat dinner? Does it vary depending on whether it is a weekday or weekend?

Do you sleep naked, in your underwear, or in actual PJ's; and what are your sheets made of?

Where do you vacation, how do you get there, and do you always take your child(ren)?

What is your driveway made of, how long is it, and is it straight or curved?

What is the total number of TVs in your house, and the ratio of rooms to TVs?

Do you decorate for Christmas? If yes, describe? (Feel free to answer for whatever Winter Solstice holiday your religion or lack of it dictates).

What do you read? (If you don't read at all, just stop right now. Forget it. Please redirect to the thread on mental illness and the likelihood the world will be better off without you in it).

Lastly, tell me about your childhood, and queue the trumpets.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[NCclimber 0]

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Keep it up.

I saw some parents give in to their toddler's tantrum in a restaurant just last Saturday. Clearly they were middle class, preoccupied with appearances.

And still - no direct answer to -

What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

Wasn't it just last week you were getting "upset" about others getting off topic?

[pirana 0]

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I saw some parents give in to their toddler's tantrum in a restaurant just last Saturday. Clearly they were middle class, preoccupied with appearances.

Most likely you are correct. The small number of proles that wouldn't think it was cute would probably beat the child in public. High Prole would be a swat on the ass. Low Prole would be a backhand across the chops. All of which further proves that they do not give a shit what other people think.

We could fine tune if we knew the setting and type of food. Buffett would indicate no higher than Middle, probably Lower Middle tops. If the buffett vegetables were obviously canned, then you are down to Mid Prole at best. If they actually came to the table and took orders and delivered freshly cooked food, then it is solidly Middle. If none of the food could possibly offend a typical midwestern palate, then Lower Middle would be the tops. An exception would be if you were in an establishment serving authentic ethnic foods. Unless the establishment uses the word cuisine in it's name (Upper Prole) or anywhere else on the premises (Low to Mid Prole).

No need to discuss Uppers. They do not haul toddlers along when they dine out - not even on Easter or Mother's Day.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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And still - no direct answer to -

What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

Wasn't it just last week you were getting "upset" about others getting off topic?

It's just not that simple. Even a broad brush definition has to come with all kinds of caveats, assumptions, and disclaimers. If you are pressing for dollar ranges - that is far from the most important criteria for defining class.

While I'm mostly being facetious in my treatment of the topic, my posts do contain hints of what does matter most - and money is not it.

Even a cursury attempt to define your middle class will require a small book. I'll get right on it. I think the Bottom Out Of Sight will devour it, because they are hungry and do not read. But the Upper Middles will love it because they love anything that pokes fun at the wannabees just below them on the social ladder.

Off to the Batcave

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[kallend 2,106]

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Keep it up.

I saw some parents give in to their toddler's tantrum in a restaurant just last Saturday. Clearly they were middle class, preoccupied with appearances.

And still - no direct answer to -

What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

Wasn't it just last week you were getting "upset" about others getting off topic?

If you re-read the thread more carefully you WILL find what you claim to want. Based on your recent posts, one might conclude that what you really want is quite different.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

maybe those in the middle class get excited whenever they are invited to a (perceived) upper class event - they might drop names and ranks to their friends and acquaintances when this happens - it seems important to them - perhaps they speak indirectly and infer things to look deep or thoughtful or subtle rather than directly

appearances might matter because they 'think' they are in transition (one way or the other)

I like chocolate, it's good with caramel.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NCclimber 0]

How would you define the middle class in this country?

What is your general definition?

Please share your insights with us common folk.

[PLFXpert 0]

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I like chocolate, it's good with caramel.

Clearly you are middle class, then.

Lowers: I like chocolate. It's good with caramel.
Uppers: I like chocolate; it's good with caramel.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>This will impact the service industry, the teaching world, the
>police, firemen...they all can't live in Tracy or Stockton and commute 80
>miles one way to here.

Eh, they'll live in Antioch and commute 50 miles by driving/BART. People in NYC do. Heck, I did it for a year. 8 miles driving to the train, 30 miles on the train, 6 miles via subway, 4 blocks to Wall St.

Antioch (or anything along a BART corridor) is getting too expensive.

[kelpdiver 2]

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And still - no direct answer to -

What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

Wasn't it just last week you were getting "upset" about others getting off topic?

And you know you'll never get that answer, because once you tag "class" with the identifier of "middle," you're talking about wealth.

Sure there are other measurements of class, but quite of few of them are grounded in racism or regionalism. In most instances, the party being talked about is in a lower class than the speaker. It's a black and white world with higher class and lower class. There is no middle.

Far more boorish than talking about wealth as a separator.

Europe, otoh, has more class distinctions based outside of wealth, but also seems to have far less mobility between the lines. I prefer the American approach.

[billvon 3,073]

>Antioch (or anything along a BART corridor) is getting too expensive.

So they'll drive 20 minutes to the BART station. Take a 50 mile half-circle centered on Oakland; that's 4000 square miles that includes Vacaville, Holt, Byron, Rio Vista, Dixon etc.

And if people don't want to do that? The service industries will keep raising their pay until people DO want to do that, and the area will get even more expensive. If it gets too expensive the area will crash and the price of housing will come down. Which will also fix the problem.

[kallend 2,106]

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And still - no direct answer to -

What is middle class in America (or anywhere) anymore?

Wasn't it just last week you were getting "upset" about others getting off topic?

And you know you'll never get that answer, because once you tag "class" with the identifier of "middle," you're talking about wealth.

Sure there are other measurements of class, but quite of few of them are grounded in racism or regionalism. In most instances, the party being talked about is in a lower class than the speaker. It's a black and white world with higher class and lower class. There is no middle.

Far more boorish than talking about wealth as a separator.

Europe, otoh, has more class distinctions based outside of wealth, but also seems to have far less mobility between the lines. I prefer the American approach.

So in your dollar-centric view a well heeled hooker or a successful drug peddler is higher class than a priest or an admiral in the US Navy.

I disagree.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.