Are cops going too far?

[normiss 801]

Between the taserings we're seeing in the news of late, and the death Death in custody
I saw some interviews with witnesses regarding this airport incident...sounds like a tiny woman gang tackled by 3 large airport police. I don't understand the police insisting on using force in all situations.

We're becoming the new USSR. Why are we soooo over policed?
In Florida, we have city, county, state, FDLE, FBI, university police empowered as any other force, ATF, DEA....Freshwater Fish and Game, Coast Guard, any others I've missed? Policing this country has become a business, not a public service.

[skycop 0]

Sigh.............
Again, this woman would not have had any problems if she had not started the situation in the first place.

As far as tackling goes, I'd rather fight a 200lb guy than a 100lb woman for many reasons. Women (at least in my experience) are just plain mean when they decide to fight. I've been scratched, punched, and kicked in the 'nads. It normally takes at least two officers to control an out of control woman. At least with guys, if things get too bad you can just deck them. Most if not all officers hestitate to strike a woman for fear of the way it would look.

You don't live in the USSR, that comparison is just silly. Behave yourself and guess what, you probably won't have any contact with the police. If the cops just randomly picked this woman, and started messing with her then you would have a point.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 801]

oh...I forgot the corrections department too:
Boot Camp

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Sigh.............
Again, this woman would not have had any problems if she had not started the situation in the first place.

As far as tackling goes, I'd rather fight a 200lb guy than a 100lb woman for many reasons. Women (at least in my experience) are just plain mean when they decide to fight. I've been scratched, punched, and kicked in the 'nads. It normally takes at least two officers to control an out of control woman. At least with guys, if things get too bad you can just deck them. Most if not all officers hestitate to strike a woman for fear of the way it would look.

You don't live in the USSR, that comparison is just silly. Behave yourself and guess what, you probably won't have any contact with the police. If the cops just randomly picked this woman, and started messing with her then you would have a point.

I understand what you are saying, however I have a friend who ran the police academy for 30 years and he is of the opinion the cops are getting way out of hand and militarized.

He likes to use his video camera these days to document abuses and try to get rid of some of the worst that LE has.

I think it is his way of doing a manufacturers recall.

The thing that bothers me the most is the threats he has received on video, by LEOs goes uninvestigated or is simply swept under the rug by the department.

[Butters 0]

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Policing this country has become a business, not a public service.

Ding, ding, ding!

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[skycop 0]

I agree to a certain extent as well. But alot has to do with the explosion of video and the 24 hour news cycle. I tell my guys to always act as if they are on video.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[AWL71 0]

The 90/10 rule applies here as in most cases. 90% of cops are good guys doing a thankless job with little pay. The other 10% are assholes with issues of all sorts that give the good 90% a guilty by association problem.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[skycop 0]

Very accruate,
I'd put the number at 95%, but then again I'm biased

I use the 60-40% rule while I'm working.

20% of the people don't like cops, the government, or authority in general. They are always railing against the cops good, bad or indifferent.

20% will back up the cops no matter what, this is the law and order crowd.

The remaining 60% are good hard working people, who are reasonable, fair, and generally impartial. These type of people make up the majority of the jury pool. If these people think I'm doing a good job, then I am doing my job! Those are the type of people I work hardest to please. The chips fall where they fall on the others.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[warpedskydiver 0]

well said!

[normiss 801]

I would say your 60-40% rule is fair and accurate...and that we could use it the other way around and be pretty accurate as well.

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

State institutions of power breed a culture of (acceptable) violence whether it be the U.S today or anywhere else 150 years ago, thats just the way it is. Try not to get tazered

[pop 0]

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Sigh.............
Again, this woman would not have had any problems if she had not started the situation in the first place.

As far as tackling goes, I'd rather fight a 200lb guy than a 100lb woman for many reasons. Women (at least in my experience) are just plain mean when they decide to fight. I've been scratched, punched, and kicked in the 'nads. It normally takes at least two officers to control an out of control woman. At least with guys, if things get too bad you can just deck them. Most if not all officers hestitate to strike a woman for fear of the way it would look.

You don't live in the USSR, that comparison is just silly. Behave yourself and guess what, you probably won't have any contact with the police. If the cops just randomly picked this woman, and started messing with her then you would have a point.

I lived in the USSR, and Igo to Russia regularly. I love the cops there. They all work o the bribery system. Got a ticket?....why go to court, when you can pay it off right then and there. Need a parking spot...but none around....talk to a cop. Need a bodyguard....pay a cop. :)

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[normiss 801]

did you say Mexico???

[pop 0]

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did you say Mexico???

yes yes...i love mexican cops too :) they like money...and they dont carry tasers :)

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[NCclimber 0]

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I saw some interviews with witnesses regarding this airport incident...sounds like a tiny woman gang tackled by 3 large airport police. I don't understand the police insisting on using force in all situations.

Got a link?

I checked out five different stories on this incident. None mentioned anything about her being gang tackled or police using excessive force.

[pop 0]

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I saw some interviews with witnesses regarding this airport incident...sounds like a tiny woman gang tackled by 3 large airport police. I don't understand the police insisting on using force in all situations.

Got a link?

I checked out five different stories on this incident. None mentioned anything about her being gang tackled or police using excessive force.

You dont just randomly die after being handcuffed. Something went down...thats for sure.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[NCclimber 0]

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I saw some interviews with witnesses regarding this airport incident...sounds like a tiny woman gang tackled by 3 large airport police. I don't understand the police insisting on using force in all situations.

Got a link?

I checked out five different stories on this incident. None mentioned anything about her being gang tackled or police using excessive force.

You dont just randomly die after being handcuffed. Something went down...thats for sure.

That has nothing to do with my point.

[pop 0]

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I saw some interviews with witnesses regarding this airport incident...sounds like a tiny woman gang tackled by 3 large airport police. I don't understand the police insisting on using force in all situations.

Got a link?

I checked out five different stories on this incident. None mentioned anything about her being gang tackled or police using excessive force.

You dont just randomly die after being handcuffed. Something went down...thats for sure.

That has nothing to do with my point.

ok

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[TheBachelor 5]

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You dont just randomly die after being handcuffed. Something went down...thats for sure.

From the link, please note the following:

"Authorities have said Carol Anne Gotbaum, who was handcuffed and shackled to a bench, may have accidentally strangled herself Friday."

"Police said she was later found unconscious and not breathing with the chain from the shackle pulled against the front of her neck. It appeared that Gotbaum got tangled as she tried to manipulate the handcuffs from behind her to the front, police said.
"

So much for it definitely being the cops' fault.

There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years...

[normiss 801]

given that it was a statement BY the police...umm...yea...
no camera in the cell she was in either.
go figure...

[warpedskydiver 0]

It would not suprise me to find that her larynx had bruising consistant with a choke hold being applied.

She could have asphyxiated slowly from the damage done.

An honest, and skilled coroner with unquestionable integrity would know the difference.

That means do not die from violence in Crook County, or they just might rule it natural causes.

[jenfly00 0]

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Sigh.............
Again, this woman would not have had any problems if she had not started the situation in the first place.

As far as tackling goes, I'd rather fight a 200lb guy than a 100lb woman for many reasons. Women (at least in my experience) are just plain mean when they decide to fight. I've been scratched, punched, and kicked in the 'nads. It normally takes at least two officers to control an out of control woman. At least with guys, if things get too bad you can just deck them. Most if not all officers hestitate to strike a woman for fear of the way it would look.

You don't live in the USSR, that comparison is just silly. Behave yourself and guess what, you probably won't have any contact with the police. If the cops just randomly picked this woman, and started messing with her then you would have a point.

I understand what you are saying, however I have a friend who ran the police academy for 30 years and he is of the opinion the cops are getting way out of hand and militarized.

He likes to use his video camera these days to document abuses and try to get rid of some of the worst that LE has.

I think it is his way of doing a manufacturers recall.

The thing that bothers me the most is the threats he has received on video, by LEOs goes uninvestigated or is simply swept under the rug by the department.

I posted some time back about the 'filter down' effect of war on terror to local police abusing police powers ...I was soundly trounced for thinking such a thing was possible.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[skycop 0]

And the thread starts to stray..............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 801]

so back on topic...
I've just seen the videos, and although we don't see what started her behavior, she clearly was out of control. I don't know what could have made her behave like it seems she is doing in the video...but it looks like she just "lost it". Also of note is how clean and gentle the takedown appears, I'll give the cops credit there, I don't think she even received the obligatory "knee in the back". She also clearly fights the whole way...love the sliding on the smooth floor.
Given this behavior, it's easy to see how she may have acted in a cell by herself.

Airport arrest

[skycop 0]

I'm telling you, there is nothing worse than an emotional, out of control female. It's by the numbers, I'm sure her family will sue and the airport will settle. My guess is she was put in the holding cell, she kept kicking and screaming so she was shackled to a bar in the holding cell. We have one we use in these situations. We are required to check on a prisoner every 15 min. If the person mentions suicide in any way then we watch them until a life squad arrives. Again, my guess was she contorted herself messing with the hand cuffs and wham, where are where we are.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"