pop 0 #1 October 10, 2007 I bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, and got their via free roads, on a school bus you didnt have to pay for every morning. hmmm....Were you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #2 October 10, 2007 Speakers corner absolutiveness. Everyone is accused of being either a bleeding heart lib commy or a neo-con chickenhawk. Noooobody sees any middle ground or moderation in anyones position. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #3 October 10, 2007 QuoteI bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, and got their via free roads, on a school bus you didnt have to pay for every morning. hmmm....Were you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? "Free" public schools? What universe did YOU grow up in?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Armour666 0 #4 October 10, 2007 Quote I bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, and got their via free roads, on a school bus you didnt have to pay for every morning. hmmm....Were you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? Not exactly free for everyone that is working and paying taxes There are only a few areas that I strongly agree on in the social system 1. Education: The more you educate people and motivate the more stable a work force you have. The larger the tax base of a population the les taxes overall you have to pay. 2. Health care: The healthier your population the less you pay in the long run. Early deaths of productive people in society has a negative effect as you have not reached a point that they have started to give back to the system then what they have taken. 3. support of children These are all things that in the long term benefit society as a whole and has a common good out of the results of these socialistic policies. Like it or not we all depend on one another it is all indirectly but the dependencies are there. We need a well educated healthy population to prosper and to have a stable growing economy. The better the economy dose the more money “I” make so yes there is a selfish point in this so there are incentives to support this.SO this one time at band camp..... "Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #5 October 10, 2007 QuoteI bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, and got their via free roads, on a school bus you didnt have to pay for every morning. hmmm....Were you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? Free Roads--auto registration, gasoline tax=NOT FREE Free Public Schools--Taxes (income, excise tax, lottery)=NOT FREE School bus--Paid for thru a contract with the school district (See above two) NOT FREE. Why should I be forced to pay for someone's child? I had no say in their coming into existence, why should someone else's breeding pick my pocket?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #6 October 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteI bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, and got their via free roads, on a school bus you didnt have to pay for every morning. hmmm....Were you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? Free Roads--auto registration, gasoline tax=NOT FREE Free Public Schools--Taxes (income, excise tax, lottery)=NOT FREE School bus--Paid for thru a contract with the school district (See above two) NOT FREE. Why should I be forced to pay for someone's child? I had no say in their coming into existence, why should someone else's breeding pick my pocket? So what kind of school did you attend? Get any scholarships?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #7 October 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, and got their via free roads, on a school bus you didnt have to pay for every morning. hmmm....Were you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? Free Roads--auto registration, gasoline tax=NOT FREE Free Public Schools--Taxes (income, excise tax, lottery)=NOT FREE School bus--Paid for thru a contract with the school district (See above two) NOT FREE. Why should I be forced to pay for someone's child? I had no say in their coming into existence, why should someone else's breeding pick my pocket? So what kind of school did you attend? Get any scholarships? K-12: Private schools. No scholarships. College: I signed a ROTC scholarship for a State University. It would've been the same cost to me, I chose State U over a private school for academic reasons, in effect saving the Govt money. And I paid back my end of the Contract via service to the Dept of Defense.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #8 October 10, 2007 QuoteI bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, Free schools? How about property taxes, county taxes, and city tax? How is that free? Quoteand got their via free roads, Gas tax, vehicle registration, and once again city tax! Not free! QuoteWere you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? My parents were paying for it through there taxes. And now I am paying for it through my taxes although I do not have any kids. I might someday when I can afford it. I love how your mindset is that it is free. The Govt is paying for it so it is free. Keep it up. I got an idea, how about we go and pay for your car insurance while we are at it. Hell lets send you a check for food. You can't live without food. What else do you want to milk from the taxpayer?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 801 #9 October 10, 2007 is it possible for you to refund the portion of my taxes that fed, clothed, educated, armed, and outfitted you during your "service" to our fine country? I thought we were in this together as a society of humans. I seem to have erred in my thinking. Do you really hate contributing to this society THAT much? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #10 October 10, 2007 Believe me, you got your money's worth. Think otherwise? Try doing the numbers for replacing the entire Dept of Defense with Blackwater contractors. You got more out of the system than you put in. I resent having to pay for some idiot's unwillingness to use birth control. Your breeding should not pick my pocket. Edited to add: Re: Contributing to society--What is mine is MINE. I donate to charities willingly. I resent being forced by the govt to pay for the irresponsibility of others.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #11 October 10, 2007 QuoteDo you really hate contributing to this society THAT much? As much as I am now I think is to much. Between my wife and I after we pay all of out taxes, it came to 44% of my pay went to taxes. Do you call that fair when they come knocking on my door wanting more?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 801 #12 October 10, 2007 It's called a society...we all contribute. I put in my time in the service, have always paid taxes...I also have 3 kids that I have always paid for their birth, feeding and caring, education, and healthcare so I'm not asking you for anything. Some in our society aren't so fortunate. This does however open the door of abuse...I trust we manage as best we can. I feel we owe it to other humans to be caring and compassionate, albeit with limits. If our country stopped wasting money on the countries that want us dead, we could easily pay for socialized healthcare for those in need. I seriously don't think this is as big an issue as everyone makes it out to be. We provide care for them AND illegal immigrants now..so it's not like we would have to expand the program! Not all of us that "breed" do so irresponsibly BTW. I've never picked your pocket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #13 October 10, 2007 QuoteBelieve me, you got your money's worth. Think otherwise? Try doing the numbers for replacing the entire Dept of Defense with Blackwater contractors. You got more out of the system than you put in. I resent having to pay for some idiot's unwillingness to use birth control. Your breeding should not pick my pocket. Edited to add: Re: Contributing to society--What is mine is MINE. I donate to charities willingly. I resent being forced by the govt to pay for the irresponsibility of others. I couldn't agree more. Most of those people just have kids so they can get a check and live off the government. Handouts just encourage the lazy to stay lazy. I have 4 kids and I bust my ass to make sure they have the things they need. I expect the same of other parents.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #14 October 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteI bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, and got their via free roads, on a school bus you didnt have to pay for every morning. hmmm....Were you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? "Free" public schools? What universe did YOU grow up in? I did say paid by taxpayers : "free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money"7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #15 October 10, 2007 QuoteThere are only a few areas that I strongly agree on in the social system 1. Education: The more you educate people and motivate the more stable a work force you have. The larger the tax base of a population the les taxes overall you have to pay. 2. Health care: The healthier your population the less you pay in the long run. Early deaths of productive people in society has a negative effect as you have not reached a point that they have started to give back to the system then what they have taken. 3. support of children i see it the same way too7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #16 October 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteI bet all you guys/gals speaking out so loudly against "socialized healthcare" went to free public schools, Free schools? How about property taxes, county taxes, and city tax? How is that free? Quoteand got their via free roads, Gas tax, vehicle registration, and once again city tax! Not free! QuoteWere you also speaking out so loudly against free schooling when you were getting to educate yourselves paid by taxpayer money? My parents were paying for it through there taxes. And now I am paying for it through my taxes although I do not have any kids. I might someday when I can afford it. I love how your mindset is that it is free. The Govt is paying for it so it is free. Keep it up. I got an idea, how about we go and pay for your car insurance while we are at it. Hell lets send you a check for food. You can't live without food. What else do you want to milk from the taxpayer? i dont thiank anything is free.....maybe you missed the part where i wrote "paid by taxpayers." Everyone shuold have access to healthcare the same way they have access to schooling....that's my only point. Everyone shares these costs in the form of taxes. why should healthcare be any different from education? You got to go to school on everyone elses money. Were you complaining then? I didnt think so.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #17 October 10, 2007 1. We have Iraq war threads, we have health care ones. Let's not muddy the issue, please. Apples and Oranges, anyone?? 2. My out of pocket expenses should not increase because someone decided to breed indiscriminately. It's your crotch fruit, you feed it and pay for it's maintenance. 3. I do not owe anyone any affirmative duty, unless I assume it voluntarily. I do owe them the duty of doing no harm thru actions, nothing else. "No affirmative duty to act"--ask a lawyer or law professor to clarify. 4. It's bad enough I, a single person, subsidize schools I don't have a child in. Take what you have, breeders, and be happy. Let's not get too greedy, k?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #18 October 10, 2007 QuoteI feel we owe it to other humans to be caring and compassionate, albeit with limits. Limits are exactly what this issue is about. How much would you be willing to pay in additional income tax to ensure that everyone on US soil has adequate healthcare? $5000? $10,000? $20,000? Would you be okay that if you also have to get your healthcare through a one-size-fits-all government program? QuoteIf our country stopped wasting money on the countries that want us dead, we could easily pay for socialized healthcare for those in need. Really? How much do you think it would cost? QuoteI seriously don't think this is as big an issue as everyone makes it out to be. We provide care for them AND illegal immigrants now..so it's not like we would have to expand the program! Guess which costs more per patient - those with private insurance or those covered by government programs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #19 October 10, 2007 2. My out of pocket expenses should not increase because someone decided to go to war. It's your war, you feed it and pay for it's maintenance. YOU, ExAFO, are paying far more because the defense lobby has managed to persuade the govt that we need to spend almost as much on our military as the rest of the world combined spends on theirs than you will pay for childrens' healthcare.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #20 October 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteBelieve me, you got your money's worth. Think otherwise? Try doing the numbers for replacing the entire Dept of Defense with Blackwater contractors. You got more out of the system than you put in. I resent having to pay for some idiot's unwillingness to use birth control. Your breeding should not pick my pocket. Edited to add: Re: Contributing to society--What is mine is MINE. I donate to charities willingly. I resent being forced by the govt to pay for the irresponsibility of others. I couldn't agree more. Most of those people just have kids so they can get a check and live off the government. Handouts just encourage the lazy to stay lazy. I have 4 kids and I bust my ass to make sure they have the things they need. I expect the same of other parents. Simple solution to that. If you want to receive a welfare check you get a birth control injection (and science should develop a male birth control injection or method if possible). My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #21 October 10, 2007 Quote 2. My out of pocket expenses should not increase because someone decided to go to war. It's your war, you feed it and pay for it's maintenance. YOU, ExAFO, are paying far more because the defense lobby has managed to persuade the govt that we need to spend almost as much on our military as the rest of the world combined spends on theirs than you will pay for childrens' healthcare. See point 1, Professor. I am not on this thread to debate Iraq.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #22 October 10, 2007 QuoteQuote 2. My out of pocket expenses should not increase because someone decided to go to war. It's your war, you feed it and pay for it's maintenance. YOU, ExAFO, are paying far more because the defense lobby has managed to persuade the govt that we need to spend almost as much on our military as the rest of the world combined spends on theirs than you will pay for childrens' healthcare. See point 1, Professor. I am not on this thread to debate Iraq. I'm not debating Iraq. I'm asking why are you so irate about helping US children, but don't seem to be at all upset by pissing much more of your money away on an unnecessary war?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #23 October 10, 2007 Quote I'm not debating Iraq. I'm asking why are you so irate about helping US children, but don't seem to be at all upset by pissing much more of your money away on an unnecessary war? I am not going to discuss the Iraq war in this thread.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #24 October 10, 2007 QuoteQuote I'm not debating Iraq. I'm asking why are you so irate about helping US children, but don't seem to be at all upset by pissing much more of your money away on an unnecessary war? I am not going to discuss the Iraq war in this thread. normally i would agree and say lets not mix the two subjects. but kallend has a point. why are we so ready to spend money on war, but so hesitant to help our own people.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #25 October 10, 2007 Ok, The difference is btw spent money and money not yet spent. That work for y'all?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
