Why Has This School Not Been Shut Down?! F*cking Sick

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Again I'll admit to being closer to this situation than probably 99% on this forum, and that's why I have to keep pushing back...because these are MY kids they are talking about. This is what someone would have me do to them.

From what I have read, they only use shocks on children with severely disturbed behavior, and only after a long period of trying positive reinforcement first. (I think I read 10-11 months.) Now I don't know enough about your kids' behavior, but I get the impression they are not in the category of children who would be getting such treatment.

Anyhow, I'm sorry to hear that you are having to deal with such a difficult situation, but it sounds like you're a great mom.

[Amazon 7]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ACME is in SC


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[billvon 3,073]

>billvon with this statement you are saying that there is no such thing
>as child abuse.

Of course there is. Beating the crap out of your child because he cries is child abuse. Spanking him to keep him from running in the street is not. Cutting him open to remove a tumor is not.

>All ok, because they were effective and it was the parents' choice?

No. You need good judgment and common sense to decide what is child abuse and what is painful but in the best interest of the child.

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

You need good judgment and common sense to decide what is child abuse and what is painful but in the best interest of the child.

What is your stance on excessive flatulence?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[billvon 3,073]

>What is your stance on excessive flatulence?

From Manx cats or European swallows? And are they democrats or republicans? Cause if they're democrats, they're just wrong, no matter what species they are.

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

>What is your stance on excessive flatulence?

From Manx cats or European swallows? And are they democrats or republicans? Cause if they're democrats, they're just wrong, no matter what species they are.

From Pygmy Marmosets and Ruffed Grouse. And I believe they're Libertarian.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>You need good judgment and common sense to decide what is child abuse and what is painful but in the best interest of the child.

You mean like when someone refuses to differentiate between 'hitting a child' and 'spanking a six year old to get them from running into the street' - yet pierces their helpless baby's ears?

lots of common sense out there

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

You mean like when someone refuses to differentiate between 'hitting a child' and 'spanking a six year old to get them from running into the street' - yet pierces their helpless baby's ears?

Well technically, spanking a child IS "hitting a child," but in a specific location (the buttocks). If it makes someone feel better to think they "spanked" their child rather than "hit" their child, oh well, but really either word is correct.

I don't think I would ever use this form of punishment, but I am not so appalled by it that I feel the need to tell other people not to do it (as long as it doesn't escalate to the point of "beating," but there is a fine line there in some cases). And I'm not passing judgment on those who do spank their children; I'm just calling it what it is and saying that I don't think I would do it.

And again, I don't get the whole "spanking to keep them from running into the street" thing. If they've run into a busy street and been hit by a car, it's too late to spank them. If you spank them for running into a non-busy street, they're not going to translate that into not running into some other (busy) street (and if they're old enough to make that connection, then they're old enough to understand the danger of running into any street). Prevention by restraint makes a lot more sense than spanking when dealing with a dangerous situation for your child. But that's just me . . .

Oh, and I wouldn't pierce my baby's ears either... but I might get a cool "Mom" tattoo on his arm.

[rehmwa 2]

"technically"

Spanking is spanking (open hand, on the butt, intended to sting but not damage)
Hitting is hitting (closed fist, anywhere on the body, intent to damage)

you might get away with "spanking is a form of slapping" if you want to talk "technically", but that's off too

acknowledging the difference in the action and the intent is not to make people "Feel" better. Not acknowledging it is how the knee jerk people escalate the 'discussion' into a non-productive emotionfest they can wallow in

your last paragraph actually doesn't make any sense at all - it acknowledges neither negative reinforcement of behavior, nor positive reinforcement of behavior. Only nanny-like sheltering (leashes and restraint) - that's great if you never want your child to eventually learn their own sense of judgment.

the tatto comment is hilarious - you are on today

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Hitting is hitting (closed fist, anywhere on the body, intent to damage)

This sounds like your own definition for hitting. A dictionary might say something like "To come into contact with forcefully; strike," which is what spanking is.

Quote

that's great if you never want your child to eventually learn their own sense of judgment.

I don't want my child learning their own sense of judgment around a busy street where the outcome might be fatal. Hitting them before they get into the street isn't going to teach them anything; getting hit by a car would teach them that streets are dangerous, but I don't really want that, so restraint is better in this situation (and it's for protection, not for teaching).

[Shotgun 1]

Oh, and now I'm getting this funny image of a 30-year-old who is still afraid of crossing a busy street because he might get spanked by his mom. (Hey, that's how he was taught to have his own sense of judgment).

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Oh, and now I'm getting this funny image of a 30-year-old who is still afraid of crossing a busy street because he might get spanked by his mom. (Hey, that's how he was taught to have his own sense of judgment).

Human psychology is a funny thing - you might be more correct than you know.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pirana 0]

Quote

Oh, and now I'm getting this funny image of a 30-year-old who is still afraid of crossing a busy street because he might get spanked by his mom. (Hey, that's how he was taught to have his own sense of judgment).

What is so far-fetched about that? My wife is constantly doing things that require a good spanking.

It does not cause her to exhibit lack of judgement at all. In fact, if i didn't know better, I'd say she seems to INTENTIONALLY do things that necessitate spanking.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Quote

Oh, and now I'm getting this funny image of a 30-year-old who is still afraid of crossing a busy street because he might get spanked by his mom. (Hey, that's how he was taught to have his own sense of judgment).

Human psychology is a funny thing - you might be more correct than you know.

I wouldn't be surprised. We end up with all sorts of odd thinking that stems from childhood.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

It does not cause her to exhibit lack of judgement at all. In fact, if i didn't know better, I'd say she seems to INTENTIONALLY do things that necessitate spanking.

Well, this is obviously a case of penis envy. Even though I don't know what penis envy has to do with women who like to be spanked as adults, I'm sure Freud could tell us if he was here.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I wouldn't be surprised. We end up with all sorts of odd thinking that stems from childhood.

Yeah, odd things. Here's a list of "odd" things as an adult that spanking as a child may have oddly affected me on:

not running into traffic
playing nice with others
cleaning your plate
taking care of your stuff
respecting other people's stuff
not lying
not fighting with others
not coloring the carpetting with crayons
being polite
doing my chores

I'm sure that we are all lesser beings for those kinds of personal traits.......

edit: I would like to return to the thread topic, though, and point out that I've never been electrically shocked to reinforce those lessons. Though I have seen some VERY well behaved dogs with shock collars.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Yeah, odd things. Here's a list of "odd" things as an adult that spanking as a child may have oddly affected me on:

Cool. I (and I'm sure lots of other people) learned those things without being spanked. And I could say a lot more on that, but . . .

Quote

edit: I would like to return to the thread topic, though, and point out that I've never been electrically shocked to reinforce those lessons. Though I have seen some VERY well behaved dogs with shock collars.

Mild electric shock probably would have worked in a similar manner for you as the spankings did, but being outside of our society's norms, people are going to be more freaked out it by it (even though it is no more harmful).

And interestingly, it is more socially acceptable to use electricity on our pets than to spank them. Though in that case, I believe that's because electricity has proven to be effective whereas spanking has not. (And of course dealing with a dog or cat is much different than dealing with a human.)

(Oh, and the 30-year-old who is afraid to cross the street for fear of being spanked by his mom is probably a little less "adjusted" than the 30-year-old who is careful when crossing a street because he might get hit by a car.)

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I'm sure lots of other people) learned those things without being spanked. And I could say a lot more on that,

yup, people are different, what works for some doesn't always work for others, no matter how much some people insist on it.

Quote

interestingly, it is more socially acceptable to use electricity on our pets than to spank them

that is interesting, but if you want to shock children, then we need standards, the feedback on extent is not nearly as direct since this is not personal and it is also a remote application of discipline. Use on children is distasteful more because it is remote and has greater potential to become detached, compared to spankings, or even "stern talking to's" (which I'm sure provides serious emotional and psychological damage that lasts well into the adult years, particularly at street crossings)

Quote

(Oh, and the 30-year-old who is afraid to cross the street for fear of being spanked by his mom is probably a little less "adjusted" than the 30-year-old who is careful when crossing a street because he might get hit by a car.)

you just really don't understand (children don't spring forth at birth as reasoning, thinking adult mentalities, nor does the psyche respond that way 100% of the time well into old age) - since you offered this up as wry and clever humor, let's just let it pass as an odd digression

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

yup, people are different, what works for some doesn't always work for others, no matter how much some people insist on it.

Yes, I agree. Which is I why I am not pushing to make it illegal to spank your children.

Quote

but if you want to shock children

Well, I don't want to shock children. My original point was that I don't see much difference in that and spanking (other than the societal aspect).

Quote

wow, you just really don't understand

And from my perspective, you just really don't understand. (Funny how that works on here! )

Edit in response to your edit: Yes, the 30-year-old thing was mostly intended as a joke. And I suspect that you and I would agree on one thing about this spanking stuff(?): Whether a parent chooses to spank their child or not is nowhere near the top of the list of what makes a good parent (if it's even on that list at all).