More free trade BS

[Rookie120 0]

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WASHINGTON (AP) - Alarmed by slipping support for free trade even among Republicans, President Bush is arguing that protectionism will cut Americans out of chances for more - and better - jobs.

Bush has launched a blitz on behalf of pending free trade pacts with four nations. He continued the push Saturday in his weekly radio address.

"More exports support better and higher-paying jobs," the president said. "And to keep our economy expanding, we need to keep expanding trade."

His radio address followed a speech on trade he delivered Friday in Miami. Bush also granted interviews this week to business-oriented news organizations.

Since Democrats took control of Congress in January, it has not approved any free trade agreements that the administration has negotiated, and it has allowed Bush's authority to negotiate future deals under expedited procedures to expire.

Before lawmakers now are agreements with Peru and Panama, considered likely to pass, and with Colombia and South Korea, both seen as precarious. The deal with Colombia is in trouble over human rights issues and there is strong opposition to the South Korea agreement because of barriers erected by Seoul to keep out U.S. autos and beef.

The administration already has reached agreement with Democrats to include tougher language on protecting worker rights and the environment. But critics say five consecutive years of record U.S. trade deficits have played a major role in the loss of more than 3 million manufacturing jobs since Bush took office in 2001.

"I know many Americans feel uneasy about new competition and worry that trade will cost jobs," Bush said. "So the federal government is providing substantial funding for trade adjustment assistance that helps Americans make the transition from one job to the next. We are working to improve federal job-training programs. And we are providing strong support for America's community colleges, where people of any age can go to learn new skills for a better, high-paying career."

He said the deals would level the playing field for American businesses and farmers, many of which now face high tariffs on exported products while other countries enjoy relatively open access to U.S. markets. And he argued that freer trade with allies serves "America's security and moral interests" around the globe.

"Expanding trade will help our economy grow," Bush said. "So I call on Congress to act quickly and get these agreements to my desk."

After spending Friday in Florida talking trade and raising money for the Republican Party, Bush flew to Texas for a weekend stay at his ranch. He travels Monday to Rogers, Ark., for a speech on the budget and to Memphis to raise money to help Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., in his re-election bid. The president returns to Washington Monday evening.

Everytime you hear about free trade all I see is more jobs going out of the country. Look at the state of Michigan and see how free trade has helped the manufacturing industry up there. Ask the people in Gary IN or in Pittsburg how the free trade has helped there steel production. Go to Detroit and look at the auto plants and see how they are doing.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Everytime you hear about free trade all I see is more jobs going out of the country. Look at the state of Michigan and see how free trade has helped the manufacturing industry up there. Ask the people in Gary IN or in Pittsburg how the free trade has helped there steel production. Go to Detroit and look at the auto plants and see how they are doing.

Chinese auto workers earn $150 a month, while the union contract with Daimler-Chrysler calls for $3000-$6000/month in America depending on pay grade.

With consumers world-wide clamoring for the most they can get they're not going to accept being unable to buy products produced by cheap labor like that so it's inevitable that most manufacturing jobs are going over seas.

The only advantage we have is in innovation. Americans are better at creating new ideas than the rest of the world. Mid-term that's where the jobs are headed and everyone not in that business or servicing those people will be out of luck.

Since foreign countries are producing educated people (India is cranking out software engineers) and adopting American culture with our entrepreneurial spirit even that's not sustainable.

Eventually, we're going to be in a position where America can't compete with the developing third world in any arena and we're going to have a collapse of wages, property values, etc.

At the same time, third-world labor shortages and demand for consumer goods is going to push up the standard of living and wages in those countries.

Everything should level out.

The best we can do is figuring out how to make the meeting point as high as possible and cushion America's landing.

[akarunway 1]

If they are so smart over there what's up w/ this pic?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Armour666 0]

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WASHINGTON (AP) - Alarmed by slipping support for free trade even among Republicans, President Bush is arguing that protectionism will cut Americans out of chances for more - and better - jobs.

Bush has launched a blitz on behalf of pending free trade pacts with four nations. He continued the push Saturday in his weekly radio address.

"More exports support better and higher-paying jobs," the president said. "And to keep our economy expanding, we need to keep expanding trade."

His radio address followed a speech on trade he delivered Friday in Miami. Bush also granted interviews this week to business-oriented news organizations.

Since Democrats took control of Congress in January, it has not approved any free trade agreements that the administration has negotiated, and it has allowed Bush's authority to negotiate future deals under expedited procedures to expire.

Before lawmakers now are agreements with Peru and Panama, considered likely to pass, and with Colombia and South Korea, both seen as precarious. The deal with Colombia is in trouble over human rights issues and there is strong opposition to the South Korea agreement because of barriers erected by Seoul to keep out U.S. autos and beef.

The administration already has reached agreement with Democrats to include tougher language on protecting worker rights and the environment. But critics say five consecutive years of record U.S. trade deficits have played a major role in the loss of more than 3 million manufacturing jobs since Bush took office in 2001.

"I know many Americans feel uneasy about new competition and worry that trade will cost jobs," Bush said. "So the federal government is providing substantial funding for trade adjustment assistance that helps Americans make the transition from one job to the next. We are working to improve federal job-training programs. And we are providing strong support for America's community colleges, where people of any age can go to learn new skills for a better, high-paying career."

He said the deals would level the playing field for American businesses and farmers, many of which now face high tariffs on exported products while other countries enjoy relatively open access to U.S. markets. And he argued that freer trade with allies serves "America's security and moral interests" around the globe.

"Expanding trade will help our economy grow," Bush said. "So I call on Congress to act quickly and get these agreements to my desk."

After spending Friday in Florida talking trade and raising money for the Republican Party, Bush flew to Texas for a weekend stay at his ranch. He travels Monday to Rogers, Ark., for a speech on the budget and to Memphis to raise money to help Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., in his re-election bid. The president returns to Washington Monday evening.

Everytime you hear about free trade all I see is more jobs going out of the country. Look at the state of Michigan and see how free trade has helped the manufacturing industry up there. Ask the people in Gary IN or in Pittsburg how the free trade has helped there steel production. Go to Detroit and look at the auto plants and see how they are doing.

We have the same argument going on here in Ontario that free trade is going to be the end of the economy as we know it. It has but there has to be a shift form traditional manufacturing jobs to multiple other industries.

If you continue to protect it wont stop the inevitable it only makes the transition when that time comes worse. We have the lowest unemployment rate we have seen in decades we had a period of time when we did lose many manufacturing jobs out of our own country as well but instead following the CAW and protecting job with government money (I.E. tax payers = me) they allowed things to take it course.

There are several large layoffs that have happened in the Auto and Steel industry here in the past few years but with that we have created more jobs in other sectors to compensate that. Michigan is a good example of what Ontario would have turned in to if not for the forward thinking. Free trade rally doesn’t cost jobs it changes the industries where jobs are held. If you don’t make for that shift then yes your are going to suffer.

There have been many industries in the past 100 years that no longer exist due to changes in the world market place and products.

The buggy whip makers are no longer need but should we protect and pay to support their industry because that we the traditional industry their of the time?

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[shropshire 0]

They do what is needed to get a job done.

Looks like more Western cities in the 20's & 30's

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

>


If it smells like BS then the chances are it is BS

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,991]

>Americans are better at creating new ideas than the rest of the world.

Not any more. Look at just one area - battery development. Japan leads the US by a ratio of about 4 to 1 when it comes to new patents in this area.

[kallend 2,027]

Well, the administration YOU support has been front and center in the push to globalization and outsourcing of jobs**. The US has lost millions of high paying manufacturing jobs (primarily to Asia) and replaced them with low paying service jobs. Of course, stockholders in multinational corporations are happy, while our trade deficit grows and the $US plunges.



** "Outsourcing will prove a plus for the economy in the long run", Greg Mankiw, President Bush's chief economic advisor, February 2004

[Outsourcing is] "simply a new way of doing international trade." Greg Mankiw, President Bush's chief economic advisor, February 2004

See also: Economic Report of the President, together with The Annual Report of the Council of Economic Advisers US Government Printing Office, Washington DC February 2004.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

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>Americans are better at creating new ideas than the rest of the world.

Not any more. Look at just one area - battery development. Japan leads the US by a ratio of about 4 to 1 when it comes to new patents in this area.

In today's news - a new airframe material, stronger than CF composite, has been developed at Delft University in Holland.

Leadership in particle accelerators is about to shift to Europe (CERN).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rookie120 0]

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Well, the administration YOU support

Just because I voted for the guy doesnt mean I support everything the bastard does. I am sure when you voted for Clinton there were some things he did that you did not approve of. NAFTA has never been a subject that I agree with.

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has been front and center in the push to globalization and outsourcing of jobs**. The US has lost millions of high paying manufacturing jobs (primarily to Asia) and replaced them with low paying service jobs. Of course, stockholders in multinational corporations are happy, while our trade deficit grows and the $US plunges.

Hey man, your preaching to the choir here.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[AWL71 0]

Outsourcing of jobs is something that is hurting our economy but it comes down to this IMO. Are we as a nation willing to pay higher prices for basic goods? We will have to pay higher prices for basic things if these jobs are kept in America. I am all for this. We as a society moan when jobs go overseas but we love to buy these imported goods at cheap prices. Been to Wal-Mart lately? They pump millions into the Chinese economy. I never go to Wal-Mart. I support local business. I pay more but the extra cost is worth it to me.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[NCclimber 0]

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>Americans are better at creating new ideas than the rest of the world.

Not any more. Look at just one area - battery development. Japan leads the US by a ratio of about 4 to 1 when it comes to new patents in this area.

Just shooting from the hip here, but it seems like the US is one of the leading innovators due to what occurred in the last century. America was top dog in many regards, especially with products available to the average citizen... autos, TVs, suburban homes. It was a "can do" century for America. you can have it all. Having the cheap resources to drive this train didn't hurt, either.

Our braintrust of innovators was fed by our continuing successes. Success means more money for R & D.

Comparing the current decade to most decades of the last century, we're currently coasting... and I don't see anything on the horizon that's going to change that.

[billvon 2,991]

>Are we as a nation willing to pay higher prices for basic goods?

That is indeed the question, and as far as I can tell the answer is no. Low price trumps all other considerations for consumers - and they would rather have the $9 chinese-assembled MP3 player than the $80 US version.

Besides, it's not easy. We've been trying to buy local (not just US, but local) for quality, energy and societal reasons. Food is doable, beer and wine are (fortunately) easy. But clothing is difficult, and electronics, automotive etc are nearly impossible.

[kallend 2,027]

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>Are we as a nation willing to pay higher prices for basic goods?

That is indeed the question, and as far as I can tell the answer is no. Low price trumps all other considerations for consumers - and they would rather have the $9 chinese-assembled MP3 player than the $80 US version.

Besides, it's not easy. We've been trying to buy local (not just US, but local) for quality, energy and societal reasons. Food is doable, beer and wine are (fortunately) easy. But clothing is difficult, and electronics, automotive etc are nearly impossible.

You can still buy US made airplanes, of all sizes.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ExAFO 0]

If I'm a company owner, say I charge $80 for a widget. I can either make it in the US at a unit cost of $75, giving me a $5 profit, or have it made in China and shipped to the US, with a sum total unit cost of $50, w/a $30 profit.

Simple math dictates my choice.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Remster 30]

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If I'm a company owner, say I charge $80 for a widget. I can either make it in the US at a unit cost of $75, giving me a $5 profit, or have it made in China and shipped to the US, with a sum total unit cost of $50, w/a $30 profit.

Simple math dictates my choice.

Its not that simple.

Fact is, you probably will want to have it made in China, not because of the increased profits, but because someone else (either your neighbour, or some smart Chineese entrepreneur) will also make that widget in China, and sell it for less. You can either loose your business, or shift production costs to lower your selling price.

Remster

[ExAFO 0]

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If I'm a company owner, say I charge $80 for a widget. I can either make it in the US at a unit cost of $75, giving me a $5 profit, or have it made in China and shipped to the US, with a sum total unit cost of $50, w/a $30 profit.

Simple math dictates my choice.

Its not that simple.

Fact is, you probably will want to have it made in China, not because of the increased profits, but because someone else (either your neighbour, or some smart Chineese entrepreneur) will also make that widget in China, and sell it for less. You can either loose your business, or shift production costs to lower your selling price.

Also true. I did not, however, purport my answer to be comprehensive...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Amazon 7]

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I am sure when you voted for Clinton there were some things he did that you did not approve of.

Several things on globalization..

BUT I did approve of him getting blow jobs.....it relieves stress... less propensity for starting stupid unnecessary wars like tha Anal Retentive asshole in there now who wanted to be a WAR President