More fake soldiers speak up

[billvon 3,070]

Another opinion by some fake army captains.

===========================================

The Real Iraq We Knew

By 12 former Army captains
Tuesday, October 16, 2007; 12:00 AM

Today marks five years since the authorization of military force in Iraq, setting Operation Iraqi Freedom in motion. Five years on, the Iraq war is as undermanned and under-resourced as it was from the start. And, five years on, Iraq is in shambles.

As Army captains who served in Baghdad and beyond, we've seen the corruption and the sectarian division. We understand what it's like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it's time to get out.

What does Iraq look like on the ground? It's certainly far from being a modern, self-sustaining country. Many roads, bridges, schools and hospitals are in deplorable condition. Fewer people have access to drinking water or sewage systems than before the war. And Baghdad is averaging less than eight hours of electricity a day.

Iraq's institutional infrastructure, too, is sorely wanting. Even if the Iraqis wanted to work together and accept the national identity foisted upon them in 1920s, the ministries do not have enough trained administrators or technicians to coordinate themselves. At the local level, most communities are still controlled by the same autocratic sheiks that ruled under Saddam. There is no reliable postal system. No effective banking system. No registration system to monitor the population and its needs.

The inability to govern is exacerbated at all levels by widespread corruption. Transparency International ranks Iraq as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. And, indeed, many of us witnessed the exploitation of U.S. tax dollars by Iraqi officials and military officers. Sabotage and graft have had a particularly deleterious impact on Iraq's oil industry, which still fails to produce the revenue that Pentagon war planners hoped would pay for Iraq's reconstruction. Yet holding people accountable has proved difficult. The first commissioner of a panel charged with preventing and investigating corruption resigned last month, citing pressure from the government and threats on his life.

Against this backdrop, the U.S. military has been trying in vain to hold the country together. Even with "the surge," we simply do not have enough soldiers and marines to meet the professed goals of clearing areas from insurgent control, holding them securely and building sustainable institutions. Though temporary reinforcing operations in places like Fallujah, An Najaf, Tal Afar, and now Baghdad may brief well on PowerPoint presentations, in practice they just push insurgents to another spot on the map and often strengthen the insurgents' cause by harassing locals to a point of swayed allegiances. Millions of Iraqis correctly recognize these actions for what they are and vote with their feet -- moving within Iraq or leaving the country entirely. Still, our colonels and generals keep holding on to flawed concepts.

U.S. forces, responsible for too many objectives and too much "battle space," are vulnerable targets. The sad inevitability of a protracted draw-down is further escalation of attacks -- on U.S. troops, civilian leaders and advisory teams. They would also no doubt get caught in the crossfire of the imminent Iraqi civil war.

Iraqi security forces would not be able to salvage the situation. Even if all the Iraqi military and police were properly trained, equipped and truly committed, their 346,000 personnel would be too few. As it is, Iraqi soldiers quit at will. The police are effectively controlled by militias. And, again, corruption is debilitating. U.S. tax dollars enrich self-serving generals and support the very elements that will battle each other after we're gone.

This is Operation Iraqi Freedom and the reality we experienced. This is what we tried to communicate up the chain of command. This is either what did not get passed on to our civilian leadership or what our civilian leaders chose to ignore. While our generals pursue a strategy dependent on peace breaking out, the Iraqis prepare for their war -- and our servicemen and women, and their families, continue to suffer.

There is one way we might be able to succeed in Iraq. To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately. A scaled withdrawal will not prevent a civil war, and it will spend more blood and treasure on a losing proposition.

America, it has been five years. It's time to make a choice.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I will withold comment due to the fact I know some people that are training and coordinating the Iraqi Police.


So flap your gums all you want.

[billvon 3,070]

>So flap your gums all you want.

Not me doing the flapping. The people "flapping their gums" are:

Jason Blindauer (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Elizabeth Bostwick (served in Salah Ad Din and An Najaf in 2004)
Jeffrey Bouldin (served in Al Anbar, Baghdad and Ninevah in 2006)
Jason Bugajski (served in Diyala in 2004)
Anton Kemps (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Kristy (Luken) McCormick (served in Ninevah in 2003)
Luis Carlos Montalván (served in Anbar, Baghdad and Nineveh in 2003 and 2005)
William Murphy (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Josh Rizzo (served in Baghdad in 2006)
William "Jamie" Ruehl (served in Nineveh in 2004)
Gregg Tharp (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Gary Williams (served in Baghdad in 2003)

[NCclimber 0]

Why would you call these legitimate veterans fake?

Are you just trying to perpetuate a lie?

Or do you think Jesse Adam Macbeth really was an Army Ranger?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Everyone knows Jesse MacBeth was a Space Shuttle Door Gunner(SSDG) with hundreds of kills.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

Why would you call these legitimate veterans fake?

Are you just trying to perpetuate a lie?

Or do you think Jesse Adam Macbeth really was an Army Ranger?

Play the ball, not the player.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Why would you call these legitimate veterans fake?

Are you just trying to perpetuate a lie?

Or do you think Jesse Adam Macbeth really was an Army Ranger?

It is impossible for them to over come thier hate Bush hate Rush syndrom. Harkin, Ried and others made asses of themselves with a big lie. But, since the media doesnt like either of them they will help perpetuate the bs until they get another shot. Seems now someone on this site must feel the need to do the same

Lots on itegrety going around

edited to add. I am not saying this story is true of false, only saying the tittle is bs........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Why would you call these legitimate veterans fake?

Are you just trying to perpetuate a lie?

Or do you think Jesse Adam Macbeth really was an Army Ranger?

Play the ball, not the player.

Uh, like you do???

Oh, that is good one

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Another opinion by some fake army captains.

===========================================

The Real Iraq We Knew

By 12 former Army captains
Tuesday, October 16, 2007; 12:00 AM

Today marks five years since the authorization of military force in Iraq, setting Operation Iraqi Freedom in motion. Five years on, the Iraq war is as undermanned and under-resourced as it was from the start. And, five years on, Iraq is in shambles.

As Army captains who served in Baghdad and beyond, we've seen the corruption and the sectarian division. We understand what it's like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it's time to get out.

What does Iraq look like on the ground? It's certainly far from being a modern, self-sustaining country. Many roads, bridges, schools and hospitals are in deplorable condition. Fewer people have access to drinking water or sewage systems than before the war. And Baghdad is averaging less than eight hours of electricity a day.

Iraq's institutional infrastructure, too, is sorely wanting. Even if the Iraqis wanted to work together and accept the national identity foisted upon them in 1920s, the ministries do not have enough trained administrators or technicians to coordinate themselves. At the local level, most communities are still controlled by the same autocratic sheiks that ruled under Saddam. There is no reliable postal system. No effective banking system. No registration system to monitor the population and its needs.

The inability to govern is exacerbated at all levels by widespread corruption. Transparency International ranks Iraq as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. And, indeed, many of us witnessed the exploitation of U.S. tax dollars by Iraqi officials and military officers. Sabotage and graft have had a particularly deleterious impact on Iraq's oil industry, which still fails to produce the revenue that Pentagon war planners hoped would pay for Iraq's reconstruction. Yet holding people accountable has proved difficult. The first commissioner of a panel charged with preventing and investigating corruption resigned last month, citing pressure from the government and threats on his life.

Against this backdrop, the U.S. military has been trying in vain to hold the country together. Even with "the surge," we simply do not have enough soldiers and marines to meet the professed goals of clearing areas from insurgent control, holding them securely and building sustainable institutions. Though temporary reinforcing operations in places like Fallujah, An Najaf, Tal Afar, and now Baghdad may brief well on PowerPoint presentations, in practice they just push insurgents to another spot on the map and often strengthen the insurgents' cause by harassing locals to a point of swayed allegiances. Millions of Iraqis correctly recognize these actions for what they are and vote with their feet -- moving within Iraq or leaving the country entirely. Still, our colonels and generals keep holding on to flawed concepts.

U.S. forces, responsible for too many objectives and too much "battle space," are vulnerable targets. The sad inevitability of a protracted draw-down is further escalation of attacks -- on U.S. troops, civilian leaders and advisory teams. They would also no doubt get caught in the crossfire of the imminent Iraqi civil war.

Iraqi security forces would not be able to salvage the situation. Even if all the Iraqi military and police were properly trained, equipped and truly committed, their 346,000 personnel would be too few. As it is, Iraqi soldiers quit at will. The police are effectively controlled by militias. And, again, corruption is debilitating. U.S. tax dollars enrich self-serving generals and support the very elements that will battle each other after we're gone.

This is Operation Iraqi Freedom and the reality we experienced. This is what we tried to communicate up the chain of command. This is either what did not get passed on to our civilian leadership or what our civilian leaders chose to ignore. While our generals pursue a strategy dependent on peace breaking out, the Iraqis prepare for their war -- and our servicemen and women, and their families, continue to suffer.

There is one way we might be able to succeed in Iraq. To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately. A scaled withdrawal will not prevent a civil war, and it will spend more blood and treasure on a losing proposition.

America, it has been five years. It's time to make a choice.

Just for the heck of it would you provide the source for this "story" please?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[AWL71 0]

This was posted by another poster(GQ Jumper) in a recent thread and I thought it apporpriate since it is coming from someone who has been in Iraq.


"What has the potential to be a great discussion is being led to petty argument before it even gets going, wow.

The writer of the article was right, the political leaders that have been making decisions in this war have made the situation FUBAR. I'm on the right and I will agree completely with that(sorry if I didn't take your bait).

The leaders on the ground who give positive assessments aren't just doing so in order to keep their jobs and keep politicians happy. Some areas of this country have changed drastically for the good in the last year and a half(Anbar prov.), people just need to understand that contrary to popular belief combat zones aren't populated by unicorns that go around handing out rainbow smiles and gumdrops. It's combat, shit happens, you hang it out there and do what you can to ensure the victories outweigh the losses.

As for this general saying there is nothing going on here but military action though, that's completely innacurate. Since the beginning of this endeavor we have been trying to get people from the highest levels of government all the way down to individual citizens to work with us, it has just been that up until recently they hoped that they could ignore the situation and it would go away. I've recently seen a handful of tribes start working with coalition forces to clean up their areas and the results have been amazing, we are pulling out of a lot of areas where our pressence used to be a necessity.

People are fed select information by the media and make the assumption that what they have just seen is the whole story. I'm on the tail end of my third deployment over here so I've seen first hand how things have changed. Do we have a long ways to go? Absolutely, but we have also come very far in the yearssince we started this."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
-George Orwell

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[warpedskydiver 0]

there are few notable posters on here that would infer Dan is lying, of course they will not endeavor to say it to his face though.

Sitting in an office in CONUS gives one far more insight than being there and doing quite a bit more than the Captains who are saying such.

Dan did the deed, the Captains are mere administrators for the most part.

[billvon 3,070]

> Why would you call these legitimate veterans fake?

Just speaking in terms a Rush Limbaugh fan would understand. They are not, of course, fake soldiers, even if their message is anathema to many pro-war supporters.

[billvon 3,070]

>Just for the heck of it would you provide the source for this "story" please?

A letter to the editor of the WaPo by:

Jason Blindauer (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Elizabeth Bostwick (served in Salah Ad Din and An Najaf in 2004)
Jeffrey Bouldin (served in Al Anbar, Baghdad and Ninevah in 2006)
Jason Bugajski (served in Diyala in 2004)
Anton Kemps (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Kristy (Luken) McCormick (served in Ninevah in 2003)
Luis Carlos Montalván (served in Anbar, Baghdad and Nineveh in 2003 and 2005)
William Murphy (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Josh Rizzo (served in Baghdad in 2006)
William "Jamie" Ruehl (served in Nineveh in 2004)
Gregg Tharp (served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005)
Gary Williams (served in Baghdad in 2003)

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

> Why would you call these legitimate veterans fake?

Just speaking in terms a Rush Limbaugh fan would understand.

What are you talking about? Did Rush say combat veterans who oppose our being there are "fake soldiers"?

If so, please provide a cite.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

> Why would you call these legitimate veterans fake?

Just speaking in terms a Rush Limbaugh fan would understand. They are not, of course, fake soldiers, even if their message is anathema to many pro-war supporters.

Once again you perpetuate the lie Ried and media manufactured. The statement you make above is insulting, mileading and basicly a lie. Sad you see you go this way

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,070]

> Did Rush say combat veterans who oppose our being there are
> "fake soldiers"?
> If so, please provide a cite.

LIMBAUGH: There's a lot more than that that they don't understand. They can't even -- if -- the next guy that calls here, I'm gonna ask him: Why should we pull -- what is the imperative for pulling out? What's in it for the United States to pull out? They can't -- I don't think they have an answer for that other than, "Well, we just gotta bring the troops home."

CALLER 2: Yeah, and, you know what --

LIMBAUGH: "Save the -- keep the troops safe" or whatever. I -- it's not possible, intellectually, to follow these people.

CALLER 2: No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.

LIMBAUGH: The phony soldiers.

CALLER 2: The phony soldiers. If you talk to a real soldier, they are proud to serve. They want to be over in Iraq. They understand their sacrifice, and they're willing to sacrifice for their country.

[billvon 3,070]

>Once again you perpetuate the lie Ried and media manufactured.

Hmm. Perhaps if the right did not want "the lie" perpetuated, your namesake should not have uttered it!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Once again you perpetuate the lie Ried and media manufactured.

Hmm. Perhaps if the right did not want "the lie" perpetuated, your namesake should not have uttered it!

You have absoluty no idea of this whole issue do you? Amazing! Are you getting your info from moveon.org and demundergound?

Rush Limbaugh utter no lie. Your heros of the left Ried and Harkin are the lieing ones. You have associated yourself with proud group. Congratulations

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

> Did Rush say combat veterans who oppose our being there are
> "fake soldiers"?
> If so, please provide a cite.

LIMBAUGH: There's a lot more than that that they don't understand. They can't even -- if -- the next guy that calls here, I'm gonna ask him: Why should we pull -- what is the imperative for pulling out? What's in it for the United States to pull out? They can't -- I don't think they have an answer for that other than, "Well, we just gotta bring the troops home."

CALLER 2: Yeah, and, you know what --

LIMBAUGH: "Save the -- keep the troops safe" or whatever. I -- it's not possible, intellectually, to follow these people.

CALLER 2: No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.

LIMBAUGH: The phony soldiers.

CALLER 2: The phony soldiers. If you talk to a real soldier, they are proud to serve. They want to be over in Iraq. They understand their sacrifice, and they're willing to sacrifice for their country.

I can see your point...



































if you jump through some inferential hoops.

Then again, people could consider his explanation and easily see that it makes sense,...

but that would deny them the pleasure of being smugly wrapped in their righteous indignation.

Harrumph, harrumph.

[rushmc 23]

Here isr is the comments in total and in context. Oh, and I have to say I am sorry. It would seem that the all popular Media Maters may be you source of mis-information



The Anatomy of a Smear: "Phony Soldiers" Is a Phony Story

September 28, 2007


Listen To It! WMP | RealPlayer

Audio clips available for Rush 24/7 members only -- Join Now!

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT


RUSH: What? Am I going to apologize? It is I who am owed an apology. Greetings, my friends, and welcome. The Rush Limbaugh program. It's Friday.

JOHNNY DONOVAN: Live from the Southern Command in sunny south Florida via New York City, it's Open Line Friday!

RUSH: Oh, goody goody gumdrops, yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yahoo. Ladies and gentlemen, one of my favorite days of the week here, not because it's the end of the week, but rather because it's always such an exciting excursion into broadcast excellence, because on Friday, I, El Rushbo, take a great career risk, one of the greatest risks taken in Big Media. And that risk is turning over the content portion of this program, when we go to the phones, to you, lovable people, great people, love you, but you are rank amateurs, you are not highly trained broadcast professionals and specialists as am I. So the rules Monday through Thursday, off the table, whatever you want to talk about, question, comment, whine, moan, feel free. Here's the phone number: 800-282-2882. And the e-mail address, Rush@eibnet.com.

I want to illustrate something for you today, folks. I've done it before. I want to do it again. I call this the anatomy of a smear, and what this is is a great illustration of the liberals and the Democrat Party playbook for '08, which is underway now. The morning update on Wednesday dealt with a soldier, a fake, phony soldier by the name of Jesse MacBeth who never served in Iraq; he was never an Army Ranger. He was drummed out of the military in 44 days. He had his day in court; he never got the Purple Heart as he claimed, and he described all these war atrocities. He became a hero to the anti-war left. They love phony soldiers, and they prop 'em up. When it is demonstrated that they have been lying about things, then they just forget about it. There's no retraction; there's no apology; there's no, "Uh-oh, sorry." After doing that morning update on Wednesday, I got a phone call yesterday from somebody, we were talking about the troops, and this gentleman said something which you'll hear here in just a second, prompting me to reply "yeah, the phony soldiers."

That comment, "phony soldiers" was posted yesterday afternoon on the famous Media Matters website, which is where all leftists go to find out what I say. I have a website, and I have a radio program that reaches far more people than Media Matters could ever hope to, but the critics of this program never listen to this program. They never go to my website. All they do is read Media Matters and they get the lies and the out-of-context reports. They assume it's all true because they want it to be true, and then they start their campaigns. This has led to me being denounced on the floor of the House. Howard Dean has released a statement demanding I apologize; Jim Webb; John Kerry issued a statement, three Congress people went out on the floor of the House last night and said some things, and it's starting to blossom now in the Drive-By Media. So this is the anatomy of a smear, and this is how it starts. The same group is trying to get Bill O'Reilly into problems because of some innocent comments that he made about going to dinner at a restaurant in Harlem. So the illustration begins with just a sample report from MSNBC whose content is produced almost exclusively by Media Matters for America and MoveOn.org. This is this morning with the anchorette Contessa Brewer reporting on the phony soldier controversy, spawned by me.


BREWER: Some leading Democrats are attacking radio talk show personality Rush Limbaugh because he called soldiers who opposed the Iraq war "phony." Limbaugh was criticizing the anti-war movement generally and made the comment to a caller.

RUSH ARCHIVE: It's not possible intellectually to follow these people.

CALLER: No, it's not. And what's really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

RUSH: The phony soldiers.

BREWER: Democratic Senator John Kerry is demanding an apology from Limbaugh, whose comments he calls "disgusting and an embarrassment."

RUSH: That's really rich. John Kerry, whose own soldiers, his own personnel, fellow soldiers in those Swift Boats, at least many of them who said he was lying about his supposed heroics, this is the same John Kerry who went out and insulted the intelligence of the troops, thereby torpedoing his own 2008 presidential candidacy. His statement includes these words: "This disgusting attack from Rush Limbaugh, cheerleader for the chicken hawk wing of the far right is an insult to American troops." I was not talking, as Contessa Brewer said here, about the anti-war movement generally. I was talking about one soldier with that phony soldier comment, Jesse MacBeth. They had exactly what I'm going to play for you. It's Michael J. Fox all over again. Media Matters had the transcript. But they selectively choose what they want to make their point. It runs about three minutes and 13 seconds, the entire transcript, in context, that led to this so-called controversy.

RUSH ARCHIVE: It's not possible intellectually to follow these people.

CALLER: No, it's not. And what's really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

RUSH: The phony soldiers.

CALLER: The phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they're proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they're willing to sacrifice for the country.

RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.

RUSH: It's frustrating and maddening, and why they must be kept in the minority. I want to thank you, Mike, for calling. I appreciate it very much.

Here is a Morning Update that we did recently, talking about fake soldiers. This is a story of who the left props up as heroes. They have their celebrities and one of them was Army Ranger Jesse MacBeth. Now, he was a "corporal." I say in quotes. Twenty-three years old. What made Jesse MacBeth a hero to the anti-war crowd wasn't his Purple Heart; it wasn't his being affiliated with post-traumatic stress disorder from tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. No. What made Jesse MacBeth, Army Ranger, a hero to the left was his courage, in their view, off the battlefield, without regard to consequences. He told the world the abuses he had witnessed in Iraq, American soldiers killing unarmed civilians, hundreds of men, women, even children. In one gruesome account, translated into Arabic and spread widely across the Internet, Army Ranger Jesse MacBeth describes the horrors this way: "We would burn their bodies. We would hang their bodies from the rafters in the mosque."


Now, recently, Jesse MacBeth, poster boy for the anti-war left, had his day in court. And you know what? He was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation for falsifying a Department of Veterans Affairs claim and his Army discharge record. He was in the Army. Jesse MacBeth was in the Army, folks, briefly. Forty-four days before he washed out of boot camp. Jesse MacBeth isn't an Army Ranger, never was. He isn't a corporal, never was. He never won the Purple Heart, and he was never in combat to witness the horrors he claimed to have seen. You probably haven't even heard about this. And, if you have, you haven't heard much about it. This doesn't fit the narrative and the template in the Drive-By Media and the Democrat Party as to who is a genuine war hero. Don't look for any retractions, by the way. Not from the anti-war left, the anti-military Drive-By Media, or the Arabic websites that spread Jesse MacBeth's lies about our troops, because the truth for the left is fiction that serves their purpose. They have to lie about such atrocities because they can't find any that fit the template of the way they see the US military. In other words, for the American anti-war left, the greatest inconvenience they face is the truth.

RUSH: That was the transcript from yesterday's program, talking about one phony soldier. The truth for the left is fiction that serves their purpose, which is exactly the way the website, Media Matters, generated this story, fiction, out of context, did so knowingly. What is amazing is that after all of the examples of how this organization is simply a Democrat Party Hillary Clinton front group; how they constantly do this; how they take things out of context and embarrass themselves and get things wrong; they still have credible so-called journalists and others, members of Congress, Democrat Party, who treat what they say as gospel. Not one member of the media, not one congressman, nobody has called our office to ask, "Did you really say this? And what did you mean by it?" The reason this does not work, ladies and gentlemen, is that I have a 19-and-a-half-year record on this program of being one of the most devoted supporters of US military personnel in uniform that there is.

The effort here is simply to discredit people that they consider effective and powerful on the right ginning up, leading up into the '08 elections. They cannot beat us in the arena of ideas. They cannot challenge what we say and refute it and come out on top, so this is the anatomy of a smear. I'll show you how it works when we come back after the break. We have a bunch of sound bites here from Jim Webb, Jan Schakowsky, Frank Pallone, Democrats and senators, plus the Kerry statement that I read to you, all that coming up right after this.


BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: So we have John Kerry insulting soldiers all over the place. His own troops who served with him said that he lied about things that he accomplished. He insulted the intelligence of the troops. We all know what they did to General Petraeus with the MoveOn.org ad, we know what members of Congress said to General Petraeus, calling him a liar before he even opened his mouth and before they had even read the report that they demanded be issued about the surge back on the 15th of September. What's going on here is their attempt to deflect attention away from themselves and the same issue, because they have eaten it big time on the Petraeus ad in the New York Times. None of it worked out the way they intended. They have blow-black that they didn't figure out. So now it's time for them to try to point out that somebody like me is insulting the troops -- as any of you who listen to this program regularly know has not happened and never would happen. Here's congressional reaction, Senate reaction. Last night on some MSNBC show, Jim Webb was run out in the hallway. Question: "Yesterday, in his radio program, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate US withdrawal from Iraq 'phony soldiers.' You want to respond to that?"

WEBB: I really regret Mr. Limbaugh saying things like that. You know, we have, uh, political diversity inside the military just like we do in the country. If you look at the -- I believe it was the six [sic--seven] soldiers, uh, who wrote with honor the piece for the New York Times not long ago, I think three [sic--two] of them, uh, now died. [truck accident] Uh, I think, uh, Mr. Limbaugh have to, uh, take a look at -- at that sort of reality. I really react strongly when people politicize the service of our military people.

RUSH: What an absolute lunatic joke to make, after the way General Petraeus was just treated! Politicize the military? Mr. Webb stepped in it. You put a bag of manure in front of a liberal Democrat and they are sure to step in it. He just assumed that what he was told was true, that I called anti-war troops "phony soldiers," when everybody involved in this knows full well I was talking about one genuine convicted, lying, fake soldier, who was undermining this mission, who was doing his best to demoralize the troops. I stand up for the troops! The Democrat Party has been trying to demoralize them. The Democrat Party has been trying to lose the Iraq war, the war on terror. They own defeat. They are invested in it. They have failed to hang defeat around the neck of this president, and the presidency that they've been trying to destroy. They have now really upset their fringe base by all of the top-tier candidates in Wednesday's debate saying, "There's no way I'm going to pull troops out of there before 2013." They are beside themselves now, and so they choose to come after me in an unprovoked and totally out-of-context fashion. It is I who am owed an apology here. Let's go to the floor of the House. A portion of remarks made by Illinois Democrat Jan Schakowsky.

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, Rush Limbaugh is at it again. Unable to defend an indefensible war in Iraq, he's once again resorted to sliming the messenger. In this case, unbelievably, the messenger he's going after are the brave men and women who have served their country in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other wars. Men and women who serve in Iraq differ from Rush Limbaugh in two critical ways. First, unlike Mr. Limbaugh, they actually served in the military. Second, unlike Mr. Limbaugh, they understand that the war in Iraq is making our country less safe and destroying the military.

RUSH: Do these people understand what fools they sound like to anybody who knows the truth about all of this? They haven't the slightest idea how foolish they sound; they don't care. Folks, I do not need, nor do you, lectures from liberals, Democrats, Drive-By Media people on whether or not they served in the military about supporting our troops. It is they who are undermining the troops, smearing the troops, endangering them every damn day -- and they know it, and they have done it purposefully! They are undermining the war effort. They want to be called patriots for doing it. Same on selecting Jim Webb! Shame on John Kerry! Shame on them! They should be speaking out for our soldiers, not throwing in with the anti-war MoveOn.org crowd. They cannot have it both ways, not on this program. There are 170,000 soldiers in Iraq. The least we can do here at home is support them, and on this program they have universal, total support. Here's more from Ms. Schakowsky from the floor of the House.

SCHAKOWSKY: How dare Rush Limbaugh label anyone who has served in the military as a quote "phony soldier," unquote? Could Rush Limbaugh actually face soldiers who have risked their lives and tell them that their beliefs don't matter? Let's pay attention to the 72% of American troops serving in Iraq who also think the US should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four who say the troops should leave immediately, according to the Zogby poll. I guess they're all a bunch of phonies, according to Rush Limbaugh. Apparently, however, Mr. Limbaugh thinks they deserve to be smeared and belittled unless they happen to agree with him. I understand why Rush Limbaugh cannot debate this war on the merits, but bashing soldiers and veterans who disagree with him is unpatriotic and un-American.


RUSH: Of course, none of what she said is true. She's just ignorant, and I don't need to be lectured to by these people. But, you see, they have taken the occasion of this comment... They don't care whether it's true or not; they just launch on their soapbox. Do you know how much I got under their skin, folks, for them to take this to the floor of the houses? Tom Harkin has done this. Let's go back in time, shall we? Let's go back to April 22nd, 1971, John Kerry testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about Vietnam.

VIETNAM VETERAN JOHN KERRY 1971: They told the stories of times that they had personally raped, cut off the ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned off the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Jen-jiss Khan. Not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with a full awareness at all levels of command.

RUSH: Lies! Senator Kerry was insulting and smearing members of the armed forces back in 1971, people he didn't even serve with and things that he didn't even see. Does the name Jesse MacBeth rise up again here in this discussion of phony soldiers? Here is John Kerry from December 4th, 2005.

KERRY 2005: [T]here is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, uh, uh, uh, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the -- of -- of -- of -- uh, historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not. Iraqis should be doing that.

RUSH: Oh, really? Who is insulting the troops here, folks? And who has a history of insulting of troops? Certainly not I. It is Senator Kerry who in that bite from December 4th, 2005, essentially called US troops terrorists, and said if any terrorism ought to be going on over there, the Iraqis ought to be doing it.


BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: I'm in the midst here of illustrating the Democrat Party's '08 playbook, the anatomy of a smear, taking two words that I uttered yesterday totally out of context and misrepresenting the meaning entirely -- on purpose, knowing full well they were doing it. Now the whole Democrat Party, the Drive-By Media -- typically, without verifying, without asking, without checking -- just assumes that what they read on this lying, politically oriented website, has to be true. Even if it isn't true, it serves their purpose to go out and try to nick, harm, impugn, destroy people they fear who are too effective in opposing them. What we're doing here after having illustrated all that, is to show you who the real anti-military people are in this country: who they are and how often they have opposed victory; the unkind, vicious things they have said about uniformed personnel. The idea that they have accused me of this and demand an apology from me is outrageous. It is I who is owed the apology. It won't be forthcoming, but nor will one from me. Let's go back to June 10th, 2005, the Senate floor, Dick Durbin.

DURBIN: If I read this to you and didn't tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have happened by Nazis, Soviets in their Gulags, or some mad regime, Pol Pot or others, that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that's not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of our -- their -- own prisoners.

RUSH: And of course it was Senator Durbin who issued, then, a lame apology after the firestorm that his comments caused. Let's go back shortly, not long ago, September the 10th, when General Petraeus appeared before the House committee. Before he had said a word, before he uttered one word -- and this is the day, of course, the MoveOn.org ad came out, calling him "General Betray Us." Here's Congressman Tom Lantos lecturing a four-star general in dress uniform sitting before him.

LANTOS: The fact remains, gentlemen, that the administration has sent you here today to convince the members of these two committees and the Congress that victory is at hand. With all due respect to you, I must say, "I don't buy it."

RUSH: So he's calling him a liar. So this is typical. This is what's commonplace every day in the halls of Congress inhabited by Democrats. It is the generals; it's the soldiers: they are the liars. They are the reprobates. They are the ones that need to be demoralized. They are the ones that need to lose so the Democrat Party can reap political power once again -- and they have failed. They have failed at every effort to end this war in the defeat that they have sought. They have failed to hang defeat around the neck of George W. Bush, whose presidency they have sought to destroy. These people, ladies and gentlemen, are beyond the pale. US national security is irrelevant to them at this point in time. Their acquisition of power is all that matters. I've been waiting for this to blossom, and it finally did. At the White House briefing today, this afternoon, with the spokesperson Dana Perino, a CNN reporterette asked this question.

CNN REPORTERETTE: Apparently this week Rush Limbaugh used the phrase "phony soldiers" to describe American troops who opposed the Iraq war. Given that the president has commented, uh, last week, uh, on the MoveOn ad, uh, on General Petraeus, and called it "disgusting," is this something that the president would, you know, feel compelled to comment on?

PERINO: It's the first I've heard of that comment. Taking that it is accurate -- I have not heard it myself -- the president believes that if you are serving in the military, that you have the rights that every American has, which is that you're free to express yourself in any way that you want to, and there are some that oppose the war and that's okay.

CNN REPORTERETTE: The phrase "phony soldiers" to describe these --

PERINO: It's not a phrase the president would have used.


RUSH: "Not a phrase the president would have used." She wasn't aware. She had to assume that the reporter was relaying the story accurately to her, but this is how this stuff starts. This is an illustration. This is the way the Democrat playbook in '08 -- and actually it's been underway for a while. The illustration here, folks, is just how partisan supposed "objective" media people are. You know, I've got a website, and I've got a radio show, and I've got a phone, and I have people who answer the phone, and if they read something like this... I've been on the air 19 years, a little bit over 19. Just the blanket acceptance of this -- knowing full well that Media Matters takes things out of context all the time, the blanket acceptance of this -- and then running with it full speed, is an illustration of what I have been drumming into people's heads for years. The Drive-By Media is as partisan as any organization out there. They hide under this notion that they are objective, but they've got an agenda. They have their narratives. They have their templates. When anything fits the narrative, whether it's true or not -- i.e., the Duke rape case -- you go with it. You run with it! You make the mess! This is why they're called the "Drive-By" Media. You make the mess. They drive in. They shoot things up, create all kinds of mess, get in the convertible, head back down the road, and it's left to people like me to clean up the mess that they make -- and they make messes every day, over, and over, and over again. So the reason for spending this time on this is to illustrate that that is how this happens. This organization is a front group for Mrs. Clinton, as are so many other organizations out there that engage in these kinds of smears. One more sound bite here from the floor of the House. This is Frank Pallone, a Democrat from New Jersey. Here's a portion of what he said.

PALLONE: Yesterday, House Republicans offered a motion to recommit, condemning MoveOn.org for its advertisement stating that General Petraeus had betrayed us. I'm wondering if they'll show similar outrage over statements made yesterday by conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh. Yesterday Limbaugh called service members who support a withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers." Is Limbaugh serious? I wonder if Republicans who showed so much outrage towards MoveOn yesterday will hold Rush Limbaugh to the same standard -- and I wouldn't hold your breath.

RUSH: You shouldn't hold your breath because there's no standard to hold me to, in the sense that you're talking about. I never said what you think I said, Congressman Pallone, congresswoman Schakowsky, Senator Kerry, or any of the rest of you in the Drive-By Media. I was talking about a genuine phony soldier -- and, by the way, Jesse MacBeth is not the only one. How about this guy Scott Thomas who was writing fraudulent, phony things in the New Republic about atrocities he saw that never happened? How about Jack Murtha blanketly accepting the notion that Marines in Haditha engaged in wanton murder of innocent children and civilians? If anybody owes anybody an apology, the entire Democrat Party, from Hillary Clinton on down, owes the US military an apology. They owe me an apology, and they owe the American people an apology -- and they are owed massive defeat in 2008! They are irresponsible, they are dishonest, they are incompetent, and they pose a great threat to this country -- as evidenced by this small little episode. Now, I can go back and I could get all kinds of resolutions here to remind you of them, and I will. There were resolutions praising the patriotism of General Petraeus, condemning the MoveOn ad. Kerry voted no, Schakowsky voted no. They didn't want to praise the "patriotism" because "patriotism" to them is opposing victory. Patriotism to them is opposing the US military. Patriotism to them is lying and taking out of context the words of people who are among the biggest supporters of the US military in this country. When I mentioned the term "phony soldier" -- and they all know this -- I was referring to a genuine phony soldier about whom I had informed this audience the previous day and did so again the following day. That was Wednesday and Thursday of this week.


BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: I want to thank Media Matters for America for making it so easy, ladies and gentlemen, to show how the real conspiracy works. Not the phony-baloney, hilarious right-wing conspiracy which is totally made up, but how the left flashes the media, who flash the left in Congress, and voila, you have a totally wrong, false, filled with lies, out of context story that ends up in the mainstream. If you're going to thank Media Matters, you have to thank one man, and that would be George Soros, and you have to thank one woman, and that would be Hillary Rodham Clinton. What the media want is to create a story that fits into their template, their reality.

Then they'll go to their favorite Democrats for a comment, they'll get some stupid comments from them and run and rerun the lies so that two years from now the truth and their lies become one and the same in the minds of people. This is their attempt here. This is because they don't want to debate the issues, because they can't win. They don't want to admit their own failures and failings. They don't want to inform the public. They want to manipulate the news and events to advance their agenda. So a comment that's taken out of context is compared to a paid, printed ad intended to smear General Petraeus, then they ask the White House press secretary about it. This is how it works. I want you to know it and never forget it. Thank you.


END TRANSCRIPT

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[nerdgirl 0]

The piece Bill posted is from today's Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/15/AR2007101500841.html

There’s also the much-discussed in active duty company and field officer community article by Lt Col Paul Yingling (USA) “A Failure of Generalship” from May’s Armed Forces Journal: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2007/05/2635198. See also: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1D9143CF935A1575BC0A9619C8B63.

Really, there isn’t a cognitive dissonance to respect and critically analyze General Petreaus' words (including his AI article “Beyond the Cloister” [http://www.the-american-interest.com/ai2/article.cfm?Id=290&MId=14] in which he wrote “debates we imagined to be two-sided turn out to be three-, four, or more-sided,”) and the respect and critically analyze the voices of dissent.

As I suspect many of you know, Captains and Navy Lieutenants matter because they are the ones who are getting the experience that is going to shape their careers as they go on to lead the services as field & general officers.

VR/Marg … who also knows active duty and contractor personnel involved in training Iraqi army and police.

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[rushmc 23]

You know, by using this title you either ententionally did not want to talk to the subject of the letter, or, exposed the fact that you have no idea of what the fake soldiers bs was about and so diverted a discussion of the letter.

Either case is sad

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

The piece Bill posted is from today's Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/15/AR2007101500841.html

There’s also the much-discussed in active duty company and field officer community article by Lt Col Paul Yingling (USA) “A Failure of Generalship” from May’s Armed Forces Journal: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2007/05/2635198. See also: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1D9143CF935A1575BC0A9619C8B63.

Really, there isn’t a cognitive dissonance to respect and critically analyze General Petreaus' words (including his AI article “Beyond the Cloister” [http://www.the-american-interest.com/ai2/article.cfm?Id=290&MId=14] in which he wrote “debates we imagined to be two-sided turn out to be three-, four, or more-sided,”) and the respect and critically analyze the voices of dissent.

As I suspect many of you know, Captains and Navy Lieutenants matter because they are the ones who are getting the experience that is going to shape their careers as they go on to lead to services as field & general officers.

VR/Marg … who also knows active duty and contractor personnel involved in training Iraqi army and police.

You are trying to bring the thread back to the content of the letter, which is comendable however, the title used to start this thread may have ruined that for good. Too bad....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Another opinion by some fake army captains.

===========================================

The Real Iraq We Knew

By 12 former Army captains
Tuesday, October 16, 2007; 12:00 AM

Today marks five years since the authorization of military force in Iraq, setting Operation Iraqi Freedom in motion. Five years on, the Iraq war is as undermanned and under-resourced as it was from the start. And, five years on, Iraq is in shambles.

As Army captains who served in Baghdad and beyond, we've seen the corruption and the sectarian division. We understand what it's like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it's time to get out.

What does Iraq look like on the ground? It's certainly far from being a modern, self-sustaining country. Many roads, bridges, schools and hospitals are in deplorable condition. Fewer people have access to drinking water or sewage systems than before the war. And Baghdad is averaging less than eight hours of electricity a day.

Iraq's institutional infrastructure, too, is sorely wanting. Even if the Iraqis wanted to work together and accept the national identity foisted upon them in 1920s, the ministries do not have enough trained administrators or technicians to coordinate themselves. At the local level, most communities are still controlled by the same autocratic sheiks that ruled under Saddam. There is no reliable postal system. No effective banking system. No registration system to monitor the population and its needs.

The inability to govern is exacerbated at all levels by widespread corruption. Transparency International ranks Iraq as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. And, indeed, many of us witnessed the exploitation of U.S. tax dollars by Iraqi officials and military officers. Sabotage and graft have had a particularly deleterious impact on Iraq's oil industry, which still fails to produce the revenue that Pentagon war planners hoped would pay for Iraq's reconstruction. Yet holding people accountable has proved difficult. The first commissioner of a panel charged with preventing and investigating corruption resigned last month, citing pressure from the government and threats on his life.

Against this backdrop, the U.S. military has been trying in vain to hold the country together. Even with "the surge," we simply do not have enough soldiers and marines to meet the professed goals of clearing areas from insurgent control, holding them securely and building sustainable institutions. Though temporary reinforcing operations in places like Fallujah, An Najaf, Tal Afar, and now Baghdad may brief well on PowerPoint presentations, in practice they just push insurgents to another spot on the map and often strengthen the insurgents' cause by harassing locals to a point of swayed allegiances. Millions of Iraqis correctly recognize these actions for what they are and vote with their feet -- moving within Iraq or leaving the country entirely. Still, our colonels and generals keep holding on to flawed concepts.

U.S. forces, responsible for too many objectives and too much "battle space," are vulnerable targets. The sad inevitability of a protracted draw-down is further escalation of attacks -- on U.S. troops, civilian leaders and advisory teams. They would also no doubt get caught in the crossfire of the imminent Iraqi civil war.

Iraqi security forces would not be able to salvage the situation. Even if all the Iraqi military and police were properly trained, equipped and truly committed, their 346,000 personnel would be too few. As it is, Iraqi soldiers quit at will. The police are effectively controlled by militias. And, again, corruption is debilitating. U.S. tax dollars enrich self-serving generals and support the very elements that will battle each other after we're gone.

This is Operation Iraqi Freedom and the reality we experienced. This is what we tried to communicate up the chain of command. This is either what did not get passed on to our civilian leadership or what our civilian leaders chose to ignore. While our generals pursue a strategy dependent on peace breaking out, the Iraqis prepare for their war -- and our servicemen and women, and their families, continue to suffer.

There is one way we might be able to succeed in Iraq. To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately. A scaled withdrawal will not prevent a civil war, and it will spend more blood and treasure on a losing proposition.

America, it has been five years. It's time to make a choice.

I just realized YOU called these men "false soldiers"! No one else has that I know of. Why would you ? Do you know something that you need to share with us?

Just curious.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Then again, people could consider his explanation and easily see that it makes sense,...

Why give Rush any consideration that he denies others? He built and sustains his career off this sort of crap. Let him lie in it.