My Article in The Washington Times (Guns)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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No, I said what I mean - an accident is *usually* out of the person's control

If you look above, one of the posts has a couple of definitions of accident. You'll see that many of them include the action of a person.

It is a stupid semantic argument.

The incident is an accident. For an accident to take place, an action is required. That action is often some form of negligence.

It really should be an accidental (shooting, airplane crash, car wreck, drowning, fall etc) due to negligent behaviour.

I do agree with Kallend though, for a crowd that is notoriously opposed to PC speech........

[AWL71 0]

It is not PC speech. There has to be an difference between accidental and negligent. There has to be a distinction especially when you have the six o'clock news stating "A pistol discharged today and killed a teenager." When in fact what happened was two kids were playing with a gun and one shot the other. That death happened due to negligence. Many people who know nothing about guns and get all their information from the news think guns can just go of all by themselves. I have educated many of my friends about how safe guns are when treated with respect. The media makes it seems like pistols can fire at random for no reason. There is a difference between accidental and negligent. It is not PC speech. The terms describe two different things.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Oh, I understand the need for the PC speech. But the death is still an accident.

The death happened due to an accidental discharge of a weapon due to negligent handling of said weapon.

As people here like to say, the weapon is an inanimate object it is not able to fire by itself. Now the action of actually pulling the trigger can be one of two things: it is either on purpose or it is by accident. Since I agree that mechanical failure is very uncommon, the accidental discarge may often be the result of negligent behaviour.

It IS a prime example of PC speech and quite funny coming from a group of people generally very opposed to PC speech.

This discussion, as a side note, also shows that what one group considers PC speech, another group sees as a very important distinction. Maybe something we should all keep in mind when we laugh at PC speech? (something I am most certainly also guilty off)

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You say tomato, i say tomatoe.....we are still left with an unnecessary death. Guns are stupid. Chris Rock had it right when he said the cost of each bullet shuold be $5,000. That way you really have to consider if you want to spend that kinda money before shooting someone.

so you think the situation would be improved by having people run around with guns without the benefit of any practice on their accuracy. Yeah, that's a step forward on your war against accidental shootings.

I dont beleive guns should be legal, unless say for example you make your living or put bread on the table by hunting. To me that's a legitimate NEED for an object developed and used to kill.

Alcohol is involved in 20,000 motor vehicle fatalities each year. No one outside the medical community needs alcohol. Do you think beer should be illegal, and if not why the discrepancy?

If pot is illegal, then alcohol should be too. :) Kidding.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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You say tomato, i say tomatoe.....we are still left with an unnecessary death. Guns are stupid. Chris Rock had it right when he said the cost of each bullet shuold be $5,000. That way you really have to consider if you want to spend that kinda money before shooting someone.

so you think the situation would be improved by having people run around with guns without the benefit of any practice on their accuracy. Yeah, that's a step forward on your war against accidental shootings.

I dont beleive guns should be legal, unless say for example you make your living or put bread on the table by hunting. To me that's a legitimate NEED for an object developed and used to kill.

If a President ever refuses to step down from office at the end of his term, restricts our newspapers and news programs to only publishing government-approved stories, requires adherence to a specific religion, and institutes martial law to prevent public assembly and discourse, I think you'll be happy that some of your fellow citizens are armed.

Blues,
Dave

Everytime I see our president, I want to be armed too :)

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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I dont beleive guns should be legal, unless say for example you make your living or put bread on the table by hunting. To me that's a legitimate NEED for an object developed and used to kill.

well, there are other countries that are more in line with that way of thinking. You might prefer them. Our's was founded with a different set of principles. Right now you appear to be freeloading off them.

I've lived in 5 countries, and visted three time that...USA is the best friggen country in the world! We can be as opinionated as we want, and we dont get jailed for it. My great grand father wasnt so lucky, but he lived in USSR under Stalin. Siberia is a bitch in the winter.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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Have you ever gone out shooting?

To be honest with you, I love shooting guns. My roommate recently came back from Iraq, so we have guns back in the house, which we actually regularly shoot. But I could go my entire life without handling a gun.

When I was younger I shot a Dove and killed just to see what it felt like to do that. I felt like a fucking coward after that, and I dont have it in me to kill. I guess if I was starving, and Kroger ran out of meat, I'd kill, but i dont see any point in it otherwise.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[nigel99 474]

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It is not PC speech. There has to be an difference between accidental and negligent. There has to be a distinction especially when you have the six o'clock news stating "A pistol discharged today and killed a teenager."

If you don't think it is PC speech then what do you call the unintended collision between a motor vehicle and something or someone else?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[AWL71 0]

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It is not PC speech. There has to be an difference between accidental and negligent. There has to be a distinction especially when you have the six o'clock news stating "A pistol discharged today and killed a teenager."

If you don't think it is PC speech then what do you call the unintended collision between a motor vehicle and something or someone else?

It is an accident. I see the point you are trying to make but there is not a concerted effort to outlaw cars. So many people believe that guns can discharge "accidentaly" due to the why the media treats them. If the news reported there was a "shooting accident due to improper or negligent handling" I would have no problem with that. The way the news is reported it puts all the blame on the gun when the blame should be placed on the person behind it.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

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It is not PC speech. There has to be an difference between accidental and negligent. There has to be a distinction especially when you have the six o'clock news stating "A pistol discharged today and killed a teenager."

If you don't think it is PC speech then what do you call the unintended collision between a motor vehicle and something or someone else?

It is an accident. I see the point you are trying to make but there is not a concerted effort to outlaw cars. So many people believe that guns can discharge "accidentaly" due to the why the media treats them. If the news reported there was a "shooting accident due to improper or negligent handling" I wwould have np problem with that. The way the news is reported it puts all the blame on the gun when the balme should be placed on the person behind it.

It doesnt matter what you call it...accident...negligence...whatever. In the end there is a person killed or injured for no good reason with a legal gun.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[JohnRich 4]

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Why should hunting a deer cost $5,000?

--are you familiar with Chris Rock? are you familiar with comedy

If it's just irrelevant comedy that shouldn't be taken seriously, then why are you advocating it as a proposed solution to gun crime? Perhaps we should take all of your comments in the same vein.

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Why should my 88-shot high-power rifle matches cost $440,000 each?

--cuse you dont need it.

That's very nice of you to decide for everyone else what they should be allowed to do. Is that what you call "freedom"?

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Guns do not have the capability of being "stupid" - they are inanimate objects. Only gun users can be stupid.

-- the idea oif guns is stupid. the idea of developing somwething that's designed to kill is morbid.

So you would like to see the use of deadly force in justifiable self defense turned into a criminal act?

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And just because some few gun owners are stupid, does not mean that all the others who aren't, should be punished with $5,000 per bullet punitive costs.

-- its the stupid one that worry me...

So your philosophy is that everyone should be treated as if they are stupid criminals, and that no one is trustworthy? Is that what you call "freedom"? Is that how you want your government to treat you?

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Good to see you reading the dictionary. Big words for a man who needs a gun to protect himself.

So you're a better man than me because you don't carry a gun?

[JohnRich 4]

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I dont beleive guns should be legal, unless say for example you make your living or put bread on the table by hunting. To me that's a legitimate NEED for an object developed and used to kill.

You don't consider self-defense to be a legitimate need for a gun?

Please review this story and tell me why this woman should not have been armed and capable of shooting in self defense in her own home.

[JohnRich 4]

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My great grand father wasnt so lucky, but he lived in USSR under Stalin. Siberia is a bitch in the winter.

Phew! It sure was a good thing that all those Russians didn't have the means to resist Stalin's tyranny. Otherwise, something terrible might have happened!

[JohnRich 4]

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I could go my entire life without handling a gun.

It's nice to live in a free country where someone can make that choice for themselves. It's would also be nice if you would recognize that other people should also be allowed to choose differently from yourself.

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I guess if I was starving, and Kroger ran out of meat, I'd kill, but i dont see any point in it otherwise.

So you're okay with a third party doing the killing for you, as long as you don't have to kill meat yourself. I see. Doesn't that sound hypocritical of you? If you were really against the killing of animals for food, you would be a pure vegetarian. Just because you pay some stranger to secretly kill your meat for you where you don't have to watch, instead of harvesting it directly yourself, doesn't make you some kind of saint. You cause the death of animals, just like everyone else. Surprise.

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Why should hunting a deer cost $5,000?
--are you familiar with Chris Rock? are you familiar with comedy

If it's just irrelevant comedy that shouldn't be taken seriously, then why are you advocating it as a proposed solution to gun crime?
>>>>>>> I am not….it was a joke….I hope you got that.

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Why should my 88-shot high-power rifle matches cost $440,000 each?
--cuse you dont need it.

That's very nice of you to decide for everyone else what they should be allowed to do. Is that called "freedom"?

>>>>>>>> I have stated before that guns should be for people who truly need them. As an example that would include police and hunters (who kill to eat or make money, but not for pleasure)

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Guns do not have the capability of being "stupid" - they are inanimate objects. Only gun users can be stupid.
-- the idea oif guns is stupid. the idea of developing somwething that's designed to kill is morbid.

So you would like to see the use of deadly force in justifiable self defense turned into a criminal act?
>>>>>>>> Not at all. Sometimes self defense requires you to injure or hurt the person causing you harm. Nevertheless guns are not a solution. Often times not using a gun will save your life. (I gave an example of that in my post about concealed weapons, and how my bro avoided getting killed by not pulling out the gun he had on him.

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And just because some few gun owners are stupid, does not mean that all the others who aren't, should be punished with $5,000 per bullet punitive costs.
-- its the stupid one that worry me...

So your philosophy is that everyone should be treated as if they are stupid criminals, and that no one is trustworthy? Is that what you call "freedom"?
>>>>>>>> I have stated before that guns should be for people who truly need them. As an example that would include police and hunters (who kill to eat or make money, but not for pleasure)

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Good to see you reading the dictionary. Big words for a man who needs a gun to protect himself.

So you're a better man than me because you don't carry a gun?

>>>>>>>> It’s not about who is the better man. That’s childish. We have a difference of opinion…and that’s all that is.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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If you were really against the killing of animals for food

I am not against killing for food. I would prefer not to have to do it myself...but if I had to I would.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[AWL71 0]

>>>>>>>> I have stated before that guns should be for people who truly need them. As an example that would include police and hunters (who kill to eat or make money, but not for pleasure)

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I need to be able to protect myself and my Family. Until I have my own personel security detail protecting my family is my responsibility. The example like the one JR quoted can happen. If it does I NEED to be prepared for that. So don't tell me I don't need a gun. If you do want to use them that is fine.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

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>>>>>>>> I have stated before that guns should be for people who truly need them. As an example that would include police and hunters (who kill to eat or make money, but not for pleasure)

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I need to be able to protect myself and my Family. Until I have my own personel security detail protecting my family is my responsibility. The example like the one JR quoted can happen. If it does I NEED to be prepared for that. So don't tell me I don't need a gun. If you do want to use them that is fine.

We are a society that thinks guns are a good idea. How sad.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[normiss 800]

more accurately:
"We live in a world where guns are necessary. How sad."

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Here is another question. Anyone have the stats on how many illegal guns owned by criminals were once legally owned?

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[AWL71 0]

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>>>>>>>> I have stated before that guns should be for people who truly need them. As an example that would include police and hunters (who kill to eat or make money, but not for pleasure)

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I need to be able to protect myself and my Family. Until I have my own personel security detail protecting my family is my responsibility. The example like the one JR quoted can happen. If it does I NEED to be prepared for that. So don't tell me I don't need a gun. If you do want to use them that is fine.

We are a society that thinks guns are a good idea. How sad.

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Cry me a river.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[Nightingale 0]

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Here is another question. Anyone have the stats on how many illegal guns owned by criminals were once legally owned?

Probably most of them. One of the things criminals do is steal things.

[normiss 800]

I'm not crying. I'm stating a fact.
So I accept it and deal with it.
Some appear they would rather not be prepared for such an occurence.

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Here is another question. Anyone have the stats on how many illegal guns owned by criminals were once legally owned?

Probably most of them. One of the things criminals do is steal things.

If guns were illegal, and not made available to the general population there would less to steal from.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Nightingale 0]

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Here is another question. Anyone have the stats on how many illegal guns owned by criminals were once legally owned?

Probably most of them. One of the things criminals do is steal things.

If guns were illegal, and not made available to the general population there would less to steal from.

The problem here is that there are already too many guns in the hands of criminals, and too many easy routes to get guns into the US from somewhere else. The only people who would be deprived of guns if gun laws were enacted would be people who already follow the law anyway.