rushmc 23
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kallend 2,106
Quote"It's not broken, it's still in surplus."
And I have a bridge for sale. Guess what's in that SS "lockbox"? A bunch of paper IOUs. Rolling the problem into the next generation. Like the Orwellian world we live in: "Debt is Wealth".
How about a nice, hot bowl of gov't IOUs??
Are you saying that US Treasury notes are worthless? Did anyone tell the Chinese?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Treasuries are perfectly viable. The problem is that the owner of them is selling them to himself.
Taking an equity loan on your own house doesn't increase your net worth any.
Taking an equity loan on your own house doesn't increase your net worth any.
kallend 2,106
QuoteTreasuries are perfectly viable. The problem is that the owner of them is selling them to himself.
Taking an equity loan on your own house doesn't increase your net worth any.
How is that the fault of Social Security, as opposed to being the fault of slimy accounting practices in general by the federal government?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuote
QuoteWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
provide for the common defence........like dying because you can't afford insurance? or general welfare.......like health? justice?
"Promote the general welfare" is NOT equivalent to "Provide the general welfare"... unfortunately, that seems to be all too prevalent of both an action and an opinion.Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
sv3n 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSee, you cant prove he lied..It is a blind assurtion you make to justify your position. I await you next lie.
um.......really?QuoteBush, May 29, 2003: We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them. (May 23, 2003--a month afte he declared victory.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/g8/interview5.html
So Kerry, Clinton et al, Biden, Kennedy, and on and on and on........ all lied too, right?
You said he couldn't prove that he lied..........I guess you were wrong.
Really weak or you just choose not to understand
Buy the way I can provide quotes from before Bush was even running. You care to see them?
Sure.............why not. And by the way your original comment was that it couldn't be proven that he, specifically Mr. Bush, lied..............that's been accomplished. It's not weak, it's fact. Trying to change the subject to another person doesn't make that fact wrong.
...and you're in violation of your face!
sv3n 0
I'm not speaking of loopholes, but rather of the tax breaks the middle & upper class get while the lower class does not.
The ratio doesn't really surprise me...........if you're making $20k a year or $20 billion a year, I would expect the $20 billion dollar salary to be paying quite a larger chunk of taxes. And yes, I assumed the tax breaks were included................but what I want to know is if that top 1% didn't get the tax breaks the lower class doesn't get, then how much more in taxes should they really be paying? And it's not a disparity, it's part of making that much money. I'm really curious if the system would work better with a standard tax, like a sales tax, across the board.................everybody pays the same percentage.
If people can't afford healthcare, then we need to promote it. And that may include government run healthcare for those or all people. If we don't do anything about it..........then we're doing nothing to promote it. If we keep allowing prices to skyrocket, then we are not promoting welfare at all. We're actually making it harder for people to make sure they get healthcare.
And if everyone pays taxes, then government run healthcare isn't paid for by just the wealthy...........it's paid for by everyone.
Also by giving people who pay for their own healthcare breaks you're giving breaks only to people who can afford to do that...........another break for the wealthy.
Are our democratic traditions on vacation currently because it doesn't seem like the "big boys" want to listen to the population?
The ratio doesn't really surprise me...........if you're making $20k a year or $20 billion a year, I would expect the $20 billion dollar salary to be paying quite a larger chunk of taxes. And yes, I assumed the tax breaks were included................but what I want to know is if that top 1% didn't get the tax breaks the lower class doesn't get, then how much more in taxes should they really be paying? And it's not a disparity, it's part of making that much money. I'm really curious if the system would work better with a standard tax, like a sales tax, across the board.................everybody pays the same percentage.
If people can't afford healthcare, then we need to promote it. And that may include government run healthcare for those or all people. If we don't do anything about it..........then we're doing nothing to promote it. If we keep allowing prices to skyrocket, then we are not promoting welfare at all. We're actually making it harder for people to make sure they get healthcare.
And if everyone pays taxes, then government run healthcare isn't paid for by just the wealthy...........it's paid for by everyone.
Also by giving people who pay for their own healthcare breaks you're giving breaks only to people who can afford to do that...........another break for the wealthy.
Are our democratic traditions on vacation currently because it doesn't seem like the "big boys" want to listen to the population?
...and you're in violation of your face!
sv3n 0
I've never said that the UK system is perfect or any of the other systems out there.............but I do believe that we have one of the best chances of making such a system excel.
QuoteSomething you may want to do is set up Google to give you news stories about the UK health system. One story I recently read talked about a new and growing system of health care providers that are outside the state system. The "rich" are tired of the failing program over there and are becoming clients of Dr catering to the "rich". Why, because they choose not to die before a Dr can see them. Also, a paper from the UK wrote of the record number of people who flew out of the UK (this year) to see Dr in other countries. Gee, why would they want to do that?
...and you're in violation of your face!
What tax breaks are you talking about? Are you under the impression that wealthy people pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than poor people pay?QuoteBut I'm curious, what percentage should they actually be paying without the tax breaks that they get that your "low income" tax payer would not get?
QuoteQuoteWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
provide for the common defence........like dying because you can't afford insurance? or general welfare.......like health? justice?
You really should learn what that means before trying to use it.
sv3n 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
QuoteWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
provide for the common defence........like dying because you can't afford insurance? or general welfare.......like health? justice?
"Promote the general welfare" is NOT equivalent to "Provide the general welfare"... unfortunately, that seems to be all too prevalent of both an action and an opinion.
If you're allowing prices for insurance and healthcare to skyrocket then you're not promoting welfare...........you're making it harder for people to stay well.
If people can't afford insurance or healthcare, then what are you going to do to promote it? Giving the rich healthcare tax breaks isn't going to help. Telling people you can go to the ER and they'll treat you but you'll get more into debt isn't promoting it either.........it's avoiding the problem. Sometimes you're just gonna have to man up..................a healthcare system that everybody pays for through taxes and everybody uses is a system that works for everybody.
What do you believe would work for everybody? And I'm not talking about off-topic arguments about somantics..........changing the subject isn't going to further this discussion. If you don't believe a government run healthcare system would work, then what would work? And it needs to work for everybody, you also gotta think about the people that make $15k a year and are just scraping by....and you're in violation of your face!
sv3n 0
QuoteWhat tax breaks are you talking about? Are you under the impression that wealthy people pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than poor people pay?QuoteBut I'm curious, what percentage should they actually be paying without the tax breaks that they get that your "low income" tax payer would not get?
QuoteQuoteWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
provide for the common defence........like dying because you can't afford insurance? or general welfare.......like health? justice?
You really should learn what that means before trying to use it.
The tax breaks mr b hands out that only affect the upper and middle class.
QuoteAmerican Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This de·fence (dĭ-fěns') Pronunciation Key
n. & v. Chiefly British
Variant of defense.
(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This defence
noun
1. (psychiatry) an unconscious process that tries to reduce the anxiety associated with instinctive desires [syn: defense mechanism]
2. (sports) the team that is trying to prevent the other team from scoring; "his teams are always good on defense" [syn: defense] [ant: offence]
3. the defendant and his legal advisors collectively; "the defense called for a mistrial" [syn: defense] [ant: prosecution]
4. an organization of defenders that provides resistance against attack; "he joined the defense against invasion" [syn: defense]
5. the speech act of answering an attack on your assertions; "his refutation of the charges was short and persuasive"; "in defense he said the other man started it" [syn: refutation]
6. the justification for some act or belief; "he offered a persuasive defense of the theory" [syn: defense]
7. a structure used to defend against attack; "the artillery battered down the defenses" [syn: defensive structure]
8. a defendant's answer or plea denying the truth of the charges against him; "he gave evidence for the defense" [syn: defense] [ant: criminal prosecution]
9. (military) military action or resources protecting a country against potential enemies; "they died in the defense of Stalingrad"; "they were developed for the defense program" [syn: defense]
10. protection from harm; "sanitation is the best defense against disease" [syn: defense]
11. the act of defending someone or something against attack or injury; "a good boxer needs a good defense"; "defense against hurricanes is an urgent problem" [syn: defense]
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
great example............healthcare is the best defence against an early death.
...and you're in violation of your face!
Gawain 0
QuoteI'm not speaking of loopholes, but rather of the tax breaks the middle & upper class get while the lower class does not.
Those "breaks" are available to everyone that knows how to take advantage of it. The Child Tax Credit is a very good example. In fact, that benefits the lower income families better than the higher rate income earners.
QuoteThe ratio doesn't really surprise me...........if you're making $20k a year or $20 billion a year, I would expect the $20 billion dollar salary to be paying quite a larger chunk of taxes. And yes, I assumed the tax breaks were included................but what I want to know is if that top 1% didn't get the tax breaks the lower class doesn't get, then how much more in taxes should they really be paying?
You think that these breaks were written in specifically to say: "And these breaks are only available if your income is more than $xxx,xxx.xx? IRAs and Roth IRAs have benefits for everyone. Reinvestment of capital gains on short term real estate benefit everyone. Interest earned income from certain savings is still taxed the same way. The list goes on.
QuoteAnd it's not a disparity, it's part of making that much money. I'm really curious if the system would work better with a standard tax, like a sales tax, across the board.................everybody pays the same percentage.
I'm all for a national sales tax, but only if the 14th Amendment is fully repealed. A flat tax is a good alternative and guess what: the wealthiest 1% and 10% will still pay the bulk of the income tax revenue.
QuoteIf people can't afford healthcare, then we need to promote it.
No. People need to open their eyes as to what is making this sh*t cost so much to begin with: insurance and overhead. Single doctor offices have two, three and four assistants to help with the paper work that must be filed with insurance companies, forcing the doctor to recoup the salaries he/she has to pay. The doctors have to buy stratospheric malpractice coverage from insurance companies which have to pay out unlimited settlements from crack-smoking juries that think a $950,000,000.00 settlement for a mangled finger is okay. Don't forget the doctor has to triple book his time to keep his head above water.
Then, you look at the consumer who buys a policy with which they want coverage for everything. It doesn't matter now, because they are paying a co-pay of $30, while the doctor collects another $60 from the insurance carrier because he has to pay out $70 to pay all the overhead to deal with the f**k**g insurance carrier.
Finally, have you looked at the average American? Well, there's a 30% chance that they're a great big fat-ass.
Did you know that if you go into any reasonably small-ish doctors office and ask for his rates, then ask if they have a cash discount, you'll likely get a positive answer.
Why the discount? Because no one has to do any work then. You go, the doctor sees you, and the record is filed. No stacks of crap to report to Blue Cross or Aetna or whatever...
So, you have an insurance industry regulated practice, with high overhead, with crazy CYA parameters, in super heavy demand by a clientèle that is out of shape, expecting miracles. No wonder it's so expensive.
QuoteAnd that may include government run healthcare for those or all people. If we don't do anything about it..........then we're doing nothing to promote it. If we keep allowing prices to skyrocket, then we are not promoting welfare at all. We're actually making it harder for people to make sure they get healthcare.
Healthcare is not the problem. HEALTH is the problem. The US health care system is second to none. No one is denied healthcare. The cost of the care is expensive because everyone is expecting too much from it.
If people take better care of themselves, they will use the healthcare system less, require less treatments, ease the burden which will ease every other cost factor in the paradigm.
QuoteAnd if everyone pays taxes, then government run healthcare isn't paid for by just the wealthy...........it's paid for by everyone.
You've left out the political factor and the bureaucratic factor. There is not a single government function that is run efficiently or cost effectively. You're also assuming that the politicos would properly fund it. Take a look at social security. That trust fund is invaded regularly by Congress.
QuoteAlso by giving people who pay for their own healthcare breaks you're giving breaks only to people who can afford to do that...........another break for the wealthy.
Are our democratic traditions on vacation currently because it doesn't seem like the "big boys" want to listen to the population?
It's not the "millionaire's" job to "listen to the people". This isn't the Rodina, Comrade. Any person can get a tax benefit from "kitchen plans" and HSAs.
You're turning it into a class warfare issue. It isn't. It's an attitude issue.
Somehow people think healthcare is a right. What they don't know is that it's how they run their life that is a right. If people are making choices to eat daily at McDs, guess what, medical science cannot save that diabetic fat-ass from dying early or causing a burden of a demand to save their life.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
I'll try again:
You really should learn what the Founding Fathers meant by "provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare", before trying to use those phrases to defend your position.
You really should learn what the Founding Fathers meant by "provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare", before trying to use those phrases to defend your position.
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
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