Marijuana growers taking over cottage country

[Richards 0]

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http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=3540420d-923e-4f50-bc2e-af35614357d1&k=37444

WTF? Grow ops are so plentifull in cottage country that cottagers are stumbling upon them by accident and facing violence and intimidation. So much for the myth that if you leave these guys alone they won't bother you. I have always seen the pot industry as being relatively innocent compared to the coke/crack/heroin industry but obviously I was way off on that one.

Some highlights;

"Canada is responsible for a $7-to $10-billion industry with 75% to 85% of marijuana going to the U.S.,"

"On Oct. 5, two contractors working for the Ministry of Natural Resources driving ATVs on a trail near Minden came upon three armed and masked men dragging bags of harvested marijuana out of the bush. The contractors were taken hostage and tied up with their own belts -- one was pistol-whipped -- while the assailants took their identification and stole their ATVs. That same afternoon, four others using the trail were similarly stopped, tied up, and forced to lie face down on the ground."

""There's so many people scared up here right now," said a man who lives and operates a business in nearby Eagle Lake, and who identified himself only as John for fear of retribution from biker gangs that have threatened him."

Not sure what to say. Can this be stopped? Is it inevitable. Should cottagers simply stop going up there? Should the authorities crack down big time (I think so)?

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[normiss 800]

legalize it
that will remove the organized crime from it.
tax it and allow us to distribute it properly.

works for alcohol, and it's less damaging on people and their lives than alcohol.

[jakee 1,489]

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I have always seen the pot industry as being relatively innocent compared to the coke/crack/heroin industry but obviously I was way off on that one.

It's a big money industry that is, by definition, run by criminals. Of course there will some distinctly unsavoury aspects.

Legalise it, regulate it and watch all the problems go away, not to mention seeing some new tax revenue.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Richards 0]

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legalize it
that will remove the organized crime from it.
tax it and allow us to distribute it properly.

works for alcohol, and it's less damaging on people and their lives than alcohol.

I have never agreed with that argument because there will always be an illegal substance for them to fight over. Repealing prohibition did not kill off the mafia, they just moved on to other vices. If marijuana is illegal then gangs will fight over control of the remaining vices such as coke, heroin, meth, crack, sex slavery, child pornography ....etc. Are you wiling to legalize and tax all those other things? if not the violence will stay. Another approach must be taken to deal with gang violence.

Do not get me wrong, I think marijuana should be legal as it seems to be no more harmfull than alcohol, I just don't beleive it will eliminate the gang violence that revolves around illegal vice.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Richards 0]

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It's a big money industry that is, by definition, run by criminals. Of course there will some distinctly unsavoury aspects.

True. I think that like most people I accept that there will always be an organised crime element, but I expect it to be contained enough that only those who choose to get involved will be affected by it. This no longer seems to be the case.

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Legalise it, regulate it and watch all the problems go away, not to mention seeing some new tax revenue.

[mnealtx 0]

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legalize it
that will remove the organized crime from it.
tax it and allow us to distribute it properly.

works for alcohol, and it's less damaging on people and their lives than alcohol.

I agree with that - and the added benefit of clearing out a lot of space in the prisons that are currently filled by folks busted for MJ.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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legalize it
that will remove the organized crime from it.
tax it and allow us to distribute it properly.

works for alcohol, and it's less damaging on people and their lives than alcohol.

I agree with that - and the added benefit of clearing out a lot of space in the prisons that are currently filled by folks busted for MJ.

I agree too. PROVIDED (i.e., regulate it):

1 - Serious penalties for buying for kids. VERY serious. The line is crossed when they cross personal use to minors. perhaps castration and lifetime imprisonment as a minimum.

2 - Employers should be able to test and fire if they don't want their employees to be users.

3 - We shouldn't have to deal with 2nd hand pot smoke for those that don't want to or have their families smell it or deal with it. Keep it in your own homes. (If you do this, then I could see #2 above go away - it guarantees the idiots are doped up on their own time - so it's none of their employer's business except on issues that can be independently judged).

4 - Governement doesn't supplement the industry in any way. Nor supplement the purchasers in any way.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,489]

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I have never agreed with that argument because there will always be an illegal substance for them to fight over. Repealing prohibition did not kill off the mafia, they just moved on to other vices. If marijuana is illegal then gangs will fight over control of the remaining vices such as coke, heroin, meth, crack, sex slavery, child pornography ....etc. Are you wiling to legalize and tax all those other things? if not the violence will stay. Another approach must be taken to deal with gang violence

I don't agree with your logic there. Criminal enterprises like sex slavery and child pornography are incredibly damaging in and of themselves. Cannabis is not, or at least no more than several other legal substances. The damaging aspect of the cannabis trade is solely related to its illegal status.

Secondly, you say that the crime rings involved will just move on to other things. Sure, that will be true to an extent. But, do you think that if cannabis is legalised that revenues from other illegal drugs will rise to the extent that they will immediately replace the illegal revenue that has been lost from cannabis? At the end of the day you are limiting the revenue streams available to criminal gangs and you will free up law enforcement resources to tackle more important problems.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

1) Just like alcohol and tobacco.

2) Should employers be able to fire people for drinking or smoking in their own time?

3) Just like tobacco (in Ireland, California and the UK, at least)

4) Just like alcohol and tobacco.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

You can be fired for coming into work drunk or under the influence of drugs, so, the answer is a big "maybe".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,489]

Oh yeah, and please reconcile point 3 with this thread you started a few weeks ago.

Where's that regard for property rights now?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Richards 0]

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I don't agree with your logic there. Criminal enterprises like sex slavery and child pornography are incredibly damaging in and of themselves. Cannabis is not, or at least no more than several other legal substances. The damaging aspect of the cannabis trade is solely related to its illegal status.

I do not deny what you have said, but that does not change the fact that legalization of marijuana will eliminate gang violence. Yes it will put a temporary dent in their pocketbooks but there will always be a demand for something. People will want ecstacy, designer pot with other drugs combined...etc. I agree with legalization but not because I believe it will get rid of gang violence.

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Secondly, you say that the crime rings involved will just move on to other things. Sure, that will be true to an extent. But, do you think that if cannabis is legalised that revenues from other illegal drugs will rise to the extent that they will immediately replace the illegal revenue that has been lost from cannabis?

Maybe, maybe not. I doubt however that these guys will stop being gangsters and go get real jobs just because pot is now legal. All kinds of other drugs and vices. Where there is elligal vice, there is competition and hostile takeovers in their world do not involve a board of directors or shareholders.

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you will free up law enforcement resources to tackle more important problems.

[mnealtx 0]

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Oh yeah, and please reconcile point 3 with this thread you started a few weeks ago.

Where's that regard for property rights now?

The active ingredient in MJ smoke is a drug - not so with tobacco.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Richards 0]

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2 - Employers should be able to test and fire if they don't want their employees to be users.

Why? If it is legal then what business is it of an employer whether or not you use it. So long as you are not using on the job I don't see how that could be justified.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[jakee 1,489]

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You can be fired for coming into work drunk or under the influence of drugs, so, the answer is a big "maybe".

Oh of course - but Rhemwa's post seemed to me to mean using cannabis at all, at any time, not going to work under the influence.

Imagine if you had a job that would fire you for drinking a beer at the DZ bar on saturday night!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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Oh yeah, and please reconcile point 3 with this thread you started a few weeks ago.

Where's that regard for property rights now?

The active ingredient in MJ smoke is a drug - not so with tobacco.

The premise that we are working on is what happens once cannabis has been legalised, in which case it is no longer a drug.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

Can't argue with you there.
I think it would help in some areas (I think Mnealtx's point about the prison system highlighted where the most gains would be made) but as you say I have to admit it wouldn't suddenly make everyone involved go straight.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

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Oh yeah, and please reconcile point 3 with this thread you started a few weeks ago.

Where's that regard for property rights now?

The active ingredient in MJ smoke is a drug - not so with tobacco.

The premise that we are working on is what happens once cannabis has been legalised, in which case it is no longer a drug.

Alcohol is legal and a drug. We don't allow children to have it.

That's a bit harder to do with an airborne drug, don't you think?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,489]

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Alcohol is legal and a drug. We don't allow children to have it. That's a bit harder to do with an airborne drug, don't you think?

Hah! Are you seriously going to argue that the nicotine in cigarette smoke is either less addictive or less harmful than the THC in cannabis smoke?

If we aren't talking in the legal sense then tobacco is absolutely, undeniably a harmful addictive drug - almost certainly more so than cannabis. It is mind boggling that you would think to argue otherwise

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 800]

nowhere in my reply did I refer to illegal vice other than MJ.
It is tremendously safer than the legal crap that is currently peddled to us on TV (in the states)
our kids receive a multi-pronged message from the government here. Drugs are baaad mmmkay...except the ones we say are ok...but actually THOSE drugs are many times worse the MJ has ever been proven to be. So now we have them thinking the government lies to them.."so if they lied to me about pot..."
I'd much rather be honest to my kids ... pot isn't as bad as alcohol. But the government refuses to admit that because there's much more money for them in forrestry than pulp.

[pop 0]

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legalize it
that will remove the organized crime from it.
tax it and allow us to distribute it properly.

works for alcohol, and it's less damaging on people and their lives than alcohol.

What Normiss said.

Our country has an unusually high pirson population. Many of the "criminals" living in prisons on tax payer's dime are their for crrimes that arent necessarily serious crimes. I think marijuana would fall under that catagory.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[mnealtx 0]

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Alcohol is legal and a drug. We don't allow children to have it. That's a bit harder to do with an airborne drug, don't you think?

Hah! Are you seriously going to argue that the nicotine in cigarette smoke is either less addictive or less harmful than the THC in cannabis smoke?

If we aren't talking in the legal sense then tobacco is absolutely, undeniably a harmful addictive drug - almost certainly more so than cannabis. It is mind boggling that you would think to argue otherwise

To the best of my knowledge, nicotine is not psychoactive - THC is.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,489]

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Alcohol is legal and a drug. We don't allow children to have it. That's a bit harder to do with an airborne drug, don't you think?

Hah! Are you seriously going to argue that the nicotine in cigarette smoke is either less addictive or less harmful than the THC in cannabis smoke?

If we aren't talking in the legal sense then tobacco is absolutely, undeniably a harmful addictive drug - almost certainly more so than cannabis. It is mind boggling that you would think to argue otherwise

To the best of my knowledge, nicotine is not psychoactive - THC is.

Then I'm afraid you are wrong. Check it. Why do you think people use tobacco? Besides, regardless of psychoactive effects tobacco is incredibly addictive and incredibly damaging to health. Does that count for nothing?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

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Oh of course - but Rhemwa's post seemed to me to mean using cannabis at all, at any time, not going to work under the influence.

no it didn't, read #3 again

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,489]

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Oh of course - but Rhemwa's post seemed to me to mean using cannabis at all, at any time, not going to work under the influence.

no it didn't, read #3 again

Well that's fair enough then.

Now about rationalising point 3 with your position on property rights...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?