WooHoo 0 #1 October 2, 2006 I currently jump a Spectre and really enjoy it. However I am currently buying a new rig, and a number of people have said I will have more fun flying a nine cell. I am pretty conservative and have no plans to hook turn or swoop, so even though I know there are pros and cons on both sides. Simply from a practical perspective does the 7 cell have any major advantage over the nine cell other than a greater range of flight characteristics ( I couldn't spell maneuverability ( see I told you so!). I learnt on a Sabre and have jumped a Sabre2, but all the demo conopies have been too small for me to trial, so if I buy ( either a Safire2 or Sabre2) it will be without much experience on them. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #2 October 2, 2006 Well: a) do a search. This has been discussed a lot. b) 9 cells tend to glide a bit farther and have a bit more flare, but this varies greatly from canopy to canopy. (For example, a Xaos-21 is technically a 7-cell, but will definitely out-flare a 9 cell Sabre.) c) 7 cells seem to be a bit more resistant to turbulence. If you are trying for a docile, easy to land 9 cell, I'd recommend checking out the pilot, safire 2 and sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #3 October 2, 2006 We should have a really poor FAQ even if we have any.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #4 October 2, 2006 Quote If you are trying for a docile, easy to land 9 cell, I'd recommend checking out the pilot, safire 2 and sabre 2. I'll mention the Silhouette as well. It open's nice, flies nice, lands nice, and is pretty easy to pack too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #5 October 2, 2006 You could add a lightly loaded FCI Sentry to that list too. It is a good all around canopy and not a bad price. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohanW 0 #6 October 3, 2006 If you really, really can't demo canopies, and you know you like the Spectre, why not get one? People around you may like 9-cells, but *lots* of people all over the world like Spectres a *lot*, too. They can't all be wrong, right? (Sure they can. But they're not.) But if you really, really want to, I think you can demo some canopies. It may take time, it may take patience, maybe even a little money, but hey - take all winter. If all of London can't supply you with a demo, come to Holland - Teuge has everything you want. Or just get a cheap ticket to Empuria for Christmas and demo your ass off. You don't have to make tons of jumps on each canopy - my first and second canopy I basically decided after *one* jump on the respective model (and the first one was a Silhouette - skydiving's best kept secret - and BillVon knows that, firsthand. Bill, how could you forget? Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #7 October 3, 2006 It's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity... I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jheadley 0 #8 October 3, 2006 QuoteIt's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity... I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it. I did a couple jumps on a Spectre 150 and LOVED it, after 200 jumps on a Sabre 2 150. It's got probably 90% of the performance of a Sabre 2 with much nicer openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWPoul 1 #9 October 3, 2006 QuoteIt's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity... I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it. Second to that, If you (OP) sure you don't want to swooping that IMO - Spectre the best choice. Very, very nice and fun to fly canopy! deamn you even can swoop it (hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low)Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #10 October 3, 2006 Quote(hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low) Hmmm...It also has a shorter recovery arc that helps you recover when you screw up. A canopy is a canopy and you fly that canopy as efficently as you can. It was amazing to see all of those Stiletto pilots die when the Velo came out, with such a change in recovery arc. I've seen the Spectre, the Stiletto and the Sabre2 swooped really well. They all have relatively similar recovery arcs (compared to the XF2, Katana, Velo, VX, etc). I've also seen those canopies used by people to learn the basics on before they moved on. I used those canopies to learn before I moved on to more swoop specific canopies. A short recovery arc isn't really a bad thing, it just is what it is and you have to understand that. Especially when transitioning to a canopy, such as a katana, that has a significantly longer recovery arc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #11 October 3, 2006 QuoteIf you (OP) sure you don't want to swooping that IMO - Spectre the best choice. Very, very nice and fun to fly canopy! deamn you even can swoop it (hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low) Yeah, I can say the same about Pilot, Cobalt..... It is no ultimate answer for this other than try and fly them. You have decide by yourself. I've been flying 7cell so nevertheless I prefer 9cell from the beginning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #12 October 3, 2006 I'll add Triathlon to the list of recommended 7-cell canopies. Very good all-around canopy. The Spectre seems to be PDs answer to the Triathlon and they are very, very similar in flight characteristics. I've flown both and I'd buy either one with price being the deciding factor. Although, I must say, I would lean more to toward Aerodyne in this chooice between the two because I've heard too many PD reps bad-mouthing all other manufacturers products and I have heard very few other reps bad-mouthing anybody. Funny how DZs take on a "mind set" with respect to gear.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #13 October 3, 2006 QuoteThe Spectre seems to be PDs answer to the Triathlon and they are very, very similar in flight characteristics. More complicated then that.... The Spectre may have been PD's response to the original Tri. Since then, Aerodyne has redesigned it to be what could be called its answer to the Spectre...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #14 October 3, 2006 Quote Funny how DZs take on a "mind set" with respect to gear. People follow what is obviously working for others. Bonus is the potential for discount rates and being able to easily try out that type. What's weird to me is how different neighboring DZs can be in this regard - suggesting dealer relationships/promotions can have a strong effect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #15 October 3, 2006 You're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes. IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idoru99 0 #16 October 3, 2006 QuoteYou're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes. IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen. When did this MOD happen? If you don't mind me asking. <><><><><><><><><><><> The greatest risk you take in life is the risk you don't take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #17 October 4, 2006 SPECTRE ROCKS!!! All who jump a Spectre rule the sky!!! I have one and love it. She always takes good care of me Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #18 October 4, 2006 Quote9 cells tend to glide a bit farther From PD website: Newer seven-cells benefit from improved materials and aerodynamics, and retain the advantages of traditional seven-cells while eliminating some of the disadvantages. Some modern seven-cells glide farther than comparable nine-cells. Most nine-cells will still level off or “swoop” farther when flared, but landings on some seven-cells can easily be just as soft. Seven-cells still tend to pack smaller than nine-cells, and are more agile in deep brakes.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #19 October 4, 2006 Yeah, some marketing mambo-jumbo..... I think 7cell vs 9 cell is still a matter of taste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #20 October 4, 2006 a 9 cell will have a higher aspect ratio and lower spanwise distortion than a 7 cell. therefore a nicely designed 9 cell will always have a higher glide ratio than a nicely designed 7 cell.Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yardhippie 0 #21 October 4, 2006 I love my '7' cell! I've jumped a few tri's over my short career and never really liked em. I started jumping old Sabres early on and anytime I jumped a tri, I just didnt like the performance. Although the openings were always nice compared to a sabre. but pretty much everything had a better opening than a large Sabre I. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #22 October 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes. IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen. When did this MOD happen? If you don't mind me asking. Brian...you're a senior rigger and you're asking me? I have no clue as to when Aerodyne implemented the Mod-A but I'll contact Aerodyne and find out for you, if you like...or better yet, that's something you could do, eh? My Tri's DOM was 2001. The Mod-A Tri's were later, of course. I'm sure you already know what the Mod-A is and what it does for the canopy/pilot. I learned all about it the hard way and with some teaching from a couple of well-qualified riggers.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 164 #23 October 4, 2006 QuoteBrian...you're a senior rigger and you're asking me? Jumpers, Riggers (SR and MR) learn where there seems to be knowledge. I like to believe I am a very competent rigger, but hardly know everything about all sport gear... That's why we ask questions. And POP's folks sometimes remember more than we will know for a long time (and sometimes they can't remember what canopy they're flying at the time ) JW (not POPs... yet...)Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MrFreefall383 0 #24 October 15, 2006 At the risk of starting a new thread and pissing someone off, I want to ask another loosely related question. I've been offered my first partial set of gear. I'll still have to do some searching to piece it together, but it looks like it's A-game. Rig was built in 1990, reserve's a little older. For those of you who have been in the sport for a long time, here's a good one for you. The reserve is a 7-cell 170 Firelite, pre-dating the entity that is Flight Concepts. Again, summarizing, pre-1990 Firelite 170 7-cell reserve. How's it gonna compare to... say, a PD Reserve of a similar size?"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #25 October 15, 2006 Presumably it'll handle a lot worse, although I don't know the firelite design so I ,might be wrong about that. For instance I think the old PdF reserves the transfair and the mayday actually are pretty good even compared to modern techno's and pd-r's. Anyway, do not load any reserve that old above 1:1 it's not made for it. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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matthewcline 0 #5 October 2, 2006 You could add a lightly loaded FCI Sentry to that list too. It is a good all around canopy and not a bad price. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #6 October 3, 2006 If you really, really can't demo canopies, and you know you like the Spectre, why not get one? People around you may like 9-cells, but *lots* of people all over the world like Spectres a *lot*, too. They can't all be wrong, right? (Sure they can. But they're not.) But if you really, really want to, I think you can demo some canopies. It may take time, it may take patience, maybe even a little money, but hey - take all winter. If all of London can't supply you with a demo, come to Holland - Teuge has everything you want. Or just get a cheap ticket to Empuria for Christmas and demo your ass off. You don't have to make tons of jumps on each canopy - my first and second canopy I basically decided after *one* jump on the respective model (and the first one was a Silhouette - skydiving's best kept secret - and BillVon knows that, firsthand. Bill, how could you forget? Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #7 October 3, 2006 It's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity... I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #8 October 3, 2006 QuoteIt's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity... I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it. I did a couple jumps on a Spectre 150 and LOVED it, after 200 jumps on a Sabre 2 150. It's got probably 90% of the performance of a Sabre 2 with much nicer openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #9 October 3, 2006 QuoteIt's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity... I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it. Second to that, If you (OP) sure you don't want to swooping that IMO - Spectre the best choice. Very, very nice and fun to fly canopy! deamn you even can swoop it (hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low)Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #10 October 3, 2006 Quote(hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low) Hmmm...It also has a shorter recovery arc that helps you recover when you screw up. A canopy is a canopy and you fly that canopy as efficently as you can. It was amazing to see all of those Stiletto pilots die when the Velo came out, with such a change in recovery arc. I've seen the Spectre, the Stiletto and the Sabre2 swooped really well. They all have relatively similar recovery arcs (compared to the XF2, Katana, Velo, VX, etc). I've also seen those canopies used by people to learn the basics on before they moved on. I used those canopies to learn before I moved on to more swoop specific canopies. A short recovery arc isn't really a bad thing, it just is what it is and you have to understand that. Especially when transitioning to a canopy, such as a katana, that has a significantly longer recovery arc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #11 October 3, 2006 QuoteIf you (OP) sure you don't want to swooping that IMO - Spectre the best choice. Very, very nice and fun to fly canopy! deamn you even can swoop it (hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low) Yeah, I can say the same about Pilot, Cobalt..... It is no ultimate answer for this other than try and fly them. You have decide by yourself. I've been flying 7cell so nevertheless I prefer 9cell from the beginning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #12 October 3, 2006 I'll add Triathlon to the list of recommended 7-cell canopies. Very good all-around canopy. The Spectre seems to be PDs answer to the Triathlon and they are very, very similar in flight characteristics. I've flown both and I'd buy either one with price being the deciding factor. Although, I must say, I would lean more to toward Aerodyne in this chooice between the two because I've heard too many PD reps bad-mouthing all other manufacturers products and I have heard very few other reps bad-mouthing anybody. Funny how DZs take on a "mind set" with respect to gear.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #13 October 3, 2006 QuoteThe Spectre seems to be PDs answer to the Triathlon and they are very, very similar in flight characteristics. More complicated then that.... The Spectre may have been PD's response to the original Tri. Since then, Aerodyne has redesigned it to be what could be called its answer to the Spectre...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 October 3, 2006 Quote Funny how DZs take on a "mind set" with respect to gear. People follow what is obviously working for others. Bonus is the potential for discount rates and being able to easily try out that type. What's weird to me is how different neighboring DZs can be in this regard - suggesting dealer relationships/promotions can have a strong effect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #15 October 3, 2006 You're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes. IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idoru99 0 #16 October 3, 2006 QuoteYou're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes. IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen. When did this MOD happen? If you don't mind me asking. <><><><><><><><><><><> The greatest risk you take in life is the risk you don't take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #17 October 4, 2006 SPECTRE ROCKS!!! All who jump a Spectre rule the sky!!! I have one and love it. She always takes good care of me Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #18 October 4, 2006 Quote9 cells tend to glide a bit farther From PD website: Newer seven-cells benefit from improved materials and aerodynamics, and retain the advantages of traditional seven-cells while eliminating some of the disadvantages. Some modern seven-cells glide farther than comparable nine-cells. Most nine-cells will still level off or “swoop” farther when flared, but landings on some seven-cells can easily be just as soft. Seven-cells still tend to pack smaller than nine-cells, and are more agile in deep brakes.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #19 October 4, 2006 Yeah, some marketing mambo-jumbo..... I think 7cell vs 9 cell is still a matter of taste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #20 October 4, 2006 a 9 cell will have a higher aspect ratio and lower spanwise distortion than a 7 cell. therefore a nicely designed 9 cell will always have a higher glide ratio than a nicely designed 7 cell.Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #21 October 4, 2006 I love my '7' cell! I've jumped a few tri's over my short career and never really liked em. I started jumping old Sabres early on and anytime I jumped a tri, I just didnt like the performance. Although the openings were always nice compared to a sabre. but pretty much everything had a better opening than a large Sabre I. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #22 October 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes. IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen. When did this MOD happen? If you don't mind me asking. Brian...you're a senior rigger and you're asking me? I have no clue as to when Aerodyne implemented the Mod-A but I'll contact Aerodyne and find out for you, if you like...or better yet, that's something you could do, eh? My Tri's DOM was 2001. The Mod-A Tri's were later, of course. I'm sure you already know what the Mod-A is and what it does for the canopy/pilot. I learned all about it the hard way and with some teaching from a couple of well-qualified riggers.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #23 October 4, 2006 QuoteBrian...you're a senior rigger and you're asking me? Jumpers, Riggers (SR and MR) learn where there seems to be knowledge. I like to believe I am a very competent rigger, but hardly know everything about all sport gear... That's why we ask questions. And POP's folks sometimes remember more than we will know for a long time (and sometimes they can't remember what canopy they're flying at the time ) JW (not POPs... yet...)Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrFreefall383 0 #24 October 15, 2006 At the risk of starting a new thread and pissing someone off, I want to ask another loosely related question. I've been offered my first partial set of gear. I'll still have to do some searching to piece it together, but it looks like it's A-game. Rig was built in 1990, reserve's a little older. For those of you who have been in the sport for a long time, here's a good one for you. The reserve is a 7-cell 170 Firelite, pre-dating the entity that is Flight Concepts. Again, summarizing, pre-1990 Firelite 170 7-cell reserve. How's it gonna compare to... say, a PD Reserve of a similar size?"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #25 October 15, 2006 Presumably it'll handle a lot worse, although I don't know the firelite design so I ,might be wrong about that. For instance I think the old PdF reserves the transfair and the mayday actually are pretty good even compared to modern techno's and pd-r's. Anyway, do not load any reserve that old above 1:1 it's not made for it. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
