kallend 2,026 #151 November 17, 2007 Since you apparently don't know the answer, NO Iraqis were among the 9/11 hijackers. Your attempt (following Bush's) to link 9/11 to Iraq is one of many transparent falsehoods invented to justify an illegal war of aggression. Hence my original comment - if 9/11 hadn't occurred Bush would just have invented a different excuse to invade the sovereign nation of Iraq.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #152 November 17, 2007 QuoteQuotePeople died because we had a vain narcissistic President who couldn't protect this country. Far more Americans have died at the hads of your Paranoid, incompetent, arrogant greed filled President than died under Clinton... I know you and your ilk practice revisionist history all the time... but George and his administratiopn should have gone after him immediately if you have this idea that he was so dangerous.. hell George knew where he was...right there in Afghanistan... why the inaction??? Military deaths comparison (figures until 2004, so first term used for both Bush II and Clinton) N.B.> figures are for all deaths. Bush II (2001-2004): 5187 Clinton (1992-1996): 4302 If we subtract the war casualties (keeping like to like, since Clinton was a 'peacetime President): Bush II (2001-2004): (5187 - 1102) 4085 Clinton (1992-1996): 4302 Interesting... more troops died during Clinton's peace-filled utopia than under Bush, *if* you discount the combat deaths. Even if you don't, it looks like GW is doing a better job overall than Clinton was in that regard.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #153 November 17, 2007 Uh Mike... you need to add in the last 3 years in YOUR Chimpanzee in Chief.... How come you did not do that... ah... selective intelligence from the R's again. And would you care to break that down by WHERE the casualites were and what type??? Does the drunken car accident in the South outside a stateside base... equal an IED in Tikrit?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #154 November 17, 2007 Quote Perhaps you should try and follow along with what's being discussed instead of going into Bush-Hate mode. ROFLMAO .... check the title of this thread. Quote Never mentioned Iraq except to say that if 9/11 had never occured, we wouldn't be there today. Are you 100% certain of that? Baby Bush talked of Iraq before 9/11 and he was just dying for the excuse to get back there to finish the job Papa Bush started. Of course Papa Bush did the right thing back in '91. Too bad Baby Bush was not as smart. Look at how much debt your government now carries thanks to Baby Bush's wars. My loonie is worth more than your beloved greenback thanks to Baby Bush's stupidity. PS: I'm not about to defend either Clinton. In fact it's becoming more and more apparant these days on both sides of the border that no politicians are not worth defending. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #155 November 17, 2007 QuoteQuotePeople died because we had a vain narcissistic President who couldn't protect this country. Far more Americans have died at the hads of your Paranoid, incompetent, arrogant greed filled President than died under Clinton... I know you and your ilk practice revisionist history all the time... but George and his administratiopn should have gone after him immediately if you have this idea that he was so dangerous.. hell George knew where he was...right there in Afghanistan... why the inaction??? Unlike you, I don't deny mistakes were made by both administrations. What I do know is that Bin Laden was a 1990's phenomena and should have been caught and taken down after the first WTC bombing and all of the other terrorist attacks he instigated. But he wasn't. Even though Clinton, to his credit, set up a Dept. within the CIA to get him, when it came down to give the order, he waffled 10 times. and many people are dead as a result of the 9/11 attacks. Bush only had 8 months and in that period his admin. was busy getting set up as an administration. Not giving him that as an excuse, he should have acted if the opportunity presented itself (which we don't know it ever did). But Clinton had the opportunity 10 times and waffled each and every time and as a result 1000's of people have died. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #156 November 17, 2007 If you read the ACTUAL incident reports.. most of those not pulling the trigger stem from not wanting COLLATERAL damage.. women and children.. a Saudi Prince... that would have been very very bad... on the other hand Geoge the II has no problem with collateral damage with innocent women and children. And then we wonder why the world seems to love Clinton.. even though he got a blow job (most of the world seems to LOVE Blow jobs) and now the world in general hates the USA for its policies in other countries. I got to travel a LOT during the 90's... to places I dare not go now because I am an American..... the world is certainly a different place now under your brand of AmerKanism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #157 November 17, 2007 Quote Quote Perhaps you should try and follow along with what's being discussed instead of going into Bush-Hate mode. ROFLMAO .... check the title of this thread. Quote Never mentioned Iraq except to say that if 9/11 had never occured, we wouldn't be there today. Are you 100% certain of that? Baby Bush talked of Iraq before 9/11 and he was just dying for the excuse to get back there to finish the job Papa Bush started. Of course Papa Bush did the right thing back in '91. Too bad Baby Bush was not as smart. Look at how much debt your government now carries thanks to Baby Bush's wars. My loonie is worth more than your beloved greenback thanks to Baby Bush's stupidity. PS: I'm not about to defend either Clinton. In fact it's becoming more and more apparant these days on both sides of the border that no politicians are not worth defending. You were resonding to a statement about how much better the world would be if Clinton had gotten OBL when he had him in his sites and the next thing, you are rambling off with pre-digested flak about Bush and Iraq. Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #158 November 17, 2007 QuoteIf you read the ACTUAL incident reports.. most of those not pulling the trigger stem from not wanting COLLATERAL damage.. women and children.. a Saudi Prince... that would have been very very bad... on the other hand Geoge the II has no problem with collateral damage with innocent women and children. And then we wonder why the world seems to love Clinton.. even though he got a blow job (most of the world seems to LOVE Blow jobs) and now the world in general hates the USA for its policies in other countries. I got to travel a LOT during the 90's... to places I dare not go now because I am an American..... the world is certainly a different place now under your brand of AmerKanism. Oh, I doubt there would have been much uproar about the US taking out the worlds most dangerous terrorist and a Saudi Price who was meeting with that terrorist. Even if there were, it's a small price to pay if 9/11 could have been prevented, don't you think? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #159 November 17, 2007 QuoteHow much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? I would love to see those numbers crunched and analyzed. We’ve created whole new industries, e.g., homeland defense and biodefense, and significantly increased others post-9/11, e.g., private military security contractors. And how does one consider the impact of the subprime mortgage fiasco on the US deficit separate from impact of 9/11, OEF, & OIF? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #160 November 17, 2007 QuoteUh Mike... you need to add in the last 3 years in YOUR Chimpanzee in Chief.... How come you did not do that... ah... selective intelligence from the R's again.Quote Perhaps you need to re-read THIS part of my post? "(figures until 2004, so first term used for both Bush II and Clinton) N.B.> figures are for all deaths." QuoteAnd would you care to break that down by WHERE the casualites were and what type??? Does the drunken car accident in the South outside a stateside base... equal an IED in Tikrit?? That granularity was not provided - again, it is for ALL deaths. Feel free to look it up for yourself, though.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #161 November 17, 2007 QuoteOh, I doubt there would have been much uproar about the US taking out the worlds most dangerous terrorist and a Saudi Price who was meeting with that terrorist. Even if there were, it's a small price to pay if 9/11 could have been prevented, don't you think? I certainly agree.. but you have oil stocks so I cant believe you think that would have been a really good idea...the reality is NO American President is going to do ANYTHING to upset the SAUD Family.. especially George the II....remeber now almost ALL of the assholes who attacked us.. were SAUDI... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #162 November 17, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Perhaps you should try and follow along with what's being discussed instead of going into Bush-Hate mode. ROFLMAO .... check the title of this thread. Quote Never mentioned Iraq except to say that if 9/11 had never occured, we wouldn't be there today. Are you 100% certain of that? Baby Bush talked of Iraq before 9/11 and he was just dying for the excuse to get back there to finish the job Papa Bush started. Of course Papa Bush did the right thing back in '91. Too bad Baby Bush was not as smart. Look at how much debt your government now carries thanks to Baby Bush's wars. My loonie is worth more than your beloved greenback thanks to Baby Bush's stupidity. PS: I'm not about to defend either Clinton. In fact it's becoming more and more apparant these days on both sides of the border that no politicians are not worth defending. You were resonding to a statement about how much better the world would be if Clinton had gotten OBL when he had him in his sites and the next thing, you are rambling off with pre-digested flak about Bush and Iraq. Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? . Reaching again. "Our budget will run a deficit that will be small and short-term.", G.W. Bush, SOTU speech 1/29/2002, which for the chronologically challenged was AFTER 9/11/2001.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #163 November 17, 2007 QuoteYou were resonding to a statement about how much better the world would be if Clinton had gotten OBL ROFLMAO ... was I? That's news to me. Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I never said. Bash Clinton all you want. You won't find me defending him. But check the title of this thread once more. This thread started off talking about GWB, but you insist on making it a Clinton thread. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #164 November 17, 2007 QuoteQuotePerhaps you should try and follow along with what's being discussed instead of going into Bush-Hate mode. ROFLMAO .... check the title of this thread. QuoteNever mentioned Iraq except to say that if 9/11 had never occured, we wouldn't be there today. QuoteAre you 100% certain of that? Well, here's what I said: "How many Iraqi's would be alive today if Clinton had simply done his job and gotten rid of a known threat to the U.S.?" A quick re-read of what I've said will also provide you with everything else I've said. So unless your computer screen records data imput differently than mine.... So, yeah I'm pretty sure about that. QuoteSince when was Iraq ever a threat to the USA? They had no WMD and they had nothing to do with 911. But did that stop you guys from invading their country and starting a war? Would have been a moot point if OBL had been taken out and 9/11 never happened, wouldn't it? BTW when the Clinton Admin. did normal breifing as Presidents do whenever there is a change, they were very adamat that Iraq had WMDs. In fact had Al Gore been elected President, we would have been in Iraq before 9/11. QuoteBaby Bush talked of Iraq before 9/11 and he was just dying for the excuse to get back there to finish the job Papa Bush started. Of course Papa Bush did the right thing back in '91. Too bad Baby Bush was not as smart. Look at how much debt your government now carries thanks to Baby Bush's wars. My loonie is worth more than your beloved greenback thanks to Baby Bush's stupidity. Most of what you are saying is just regugitated crap from DU and Daily Kos. Come on, admit you read alot there don't you? Can you provide anything other than a newspaper article to back up your absurd assertion? The US economy is in very good shape, everything considered. Low jobless rate, tax revenues flowing into the treasury etc. This is nothing more than a cycle that those of us who understand it are capitalizing on. QuotePS: I'm not about to defend either Clinton. In fact it's becoming more and more apparant these days on both sides of the border that no politicians are not worth defending. By refusing to admit that had Clinton pulled the trigger on OBL that 9/11 would never have occured, you are in effect defending him because your denial allows you to perpetuate the myth that it's all Bush's fault. Hey, I'll be the first one to admit Bush has made a lot of mistakes. I just disagree on the methods to rectify them. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #165 November 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteOh, I doubt there would have been much uproar about the US taking out the worlds most dangerous terrorist and a Saudi Price who was meeting with that terrorist. Even if there were, it's a small price to pay if 9/11 could have been prevented, don't you think? I certainly agree.. but you have oil stocks so I cant believe you think that would have been a really good idea...the reality is NO American President is going to do ANYTHING to upset the SAUD Family.. especially George the II....remeber now almost ALL of the assholes who attacked us.. were SAUDI... Actually quite a few of the stocks I have right now are companies who manufacture equipment to construct oil refineries since the reality that we are going to have to increase that capacity very soon is becoming more apparent. Taking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. I do agree with you that the Saudi's aren't our friends. It is my great hope that we will continue to move towards more oil independence in whatever technologies will take us there. Be it building more refineries for the short term and developing solar wind etc for the longer term. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #166 November 17, 2007 QuoteTaking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. Not if it had caused oil to jump to almost $100 dollars a barrel... oh yeah thats right Bush is fucking the American people..with his nice little neo-con war.... a little war profiteering here... a little there...... and making his friends rich... and ooops Oil is now at.. what was that price of oil per barrel again...????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #167 November 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteTaking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. Not if it had caused oil to jump to almost $100 dollars a barrel... oh yeah thats right Bush is fucking the American people..with his nice little neo-con war.... a little war profiteering here... a little there...... and making his friends rich... and ooops Oil is now at.. what was that price of oil per barrel again...????? You really have no comprehension of what causes oil prices to rise and fall do you? So again you spiral down into an uneducated Bush-Hate rant. If you'd like to have a few links to some financial sites where you could educate yourself, I'd be happy to provide them. Hint: OPEC has little to do with the price of oil. It has to do with supply and demand, oil futures and China and India right now. But I guess it's easier to rant and vent hate than to actually find out the truth. Have a good evening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #168 November 18, 2007 Quote You really have no comprehension of what causes oil prices to rise and fall do you? So again you spiral down into an uneducated Bush-Hate rant. If you'd like to have a few links to some financial sites where you could educate yourself, I'd be happy to provide them. Hint: OPEC has little to do with the price of oil. It has to do with supply and demand, oil futures and China and India right now. But I guess it's easier to rant and vent hate than to actually find out the truth. You cant reallllly expect us all to believe that this excellent little adventure is not about OIL.That may play to the RUBES in flyover land about freedom and democracy or WMD.. but the root cause is the greed you guys wrap yourselves in. Just look at the news.. everytime there is a HICKUP in an oil rich region...it causes oil prices to spike...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #169 November 18, 2007 Quote Does the drunken car accident in the South outside a stateside base... equal an IED in Tikrit?? A dead soldier is a dead soldier, and you should be aghast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #170 November 18, 2007 You should know the difference in self inflicted stupidity.. and stupidity and incompetence sending our people to occupy a country that did NOT need to be invaded. With the money and lives we have wasted in Iraq....We could have bought a whole lot of cheaper oil by not destabilizing an oil producing state Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #171 November 18, 2007 I'd also be very interested to learn how much research into alternative energies could have been paind for my the global financial cost of the 'police action' against Iraq!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #172 November 18, 2007 Quote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #173 November 18, 2007 Quote Military deaths comparison (figures until 2004, so first term used for both Bush II and Clinton) N.B.> figures are for all deaths. Bush II (2001-2004): 5187 Clinton (1992-1996): 4302 If we subtract the war casualties (keeping like to like, since Clinton was a 'peacetime President): Bush II (2001-2004): (5187 - 1102) 4085 Clinton (1993-1996): 4302 Interesting... more troops died during Clinton's peace-filled utopia than under Bush, *if* you discount the combat deaths. Even if you don't, it looks like GW is doing a better job overall than Clinton was in that regard. I corrected your years, since otherwise it looks like you're being incredibly dishonest using 1992 for Clinton, a 5th year when he wasn't president. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/1848019402_c733f4d4fa_o.jpg has a nice year by year breakdown, source was Congressional Research Service. 2241 of Clinton's were due to accidents, 774 due to illness, 906 self inflicted. Fairly similar numbers to the surrounding years, as well as the 2000s, the chief difference being the spike in military deaths since 2003. Peacekeeping deaths aren't a big factor in Clinton's years and of course the worst one (Somalia) was initiated by Bush during his lame duck December in 1992. (For some reason they categorized this as terrorist related instead of hostile action) Of course, it still remains very dishonest to use the first 4 years when we're finishing year 7 of the Bush Administration, and we have a war that started in year 3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #174 November 18, 2007 QuoteQuote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. GW Bush has spent money like a drunk sailor. National Debt is ~$9 TRILLION. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how the National Debt, Tax Revenue, and Interest on Nat Debt compares to a typical household's Income, Mortgage balance, and Mortgage Interest load? That should really show how bad the National debt problem is. Surely, no family could get away with that kind of irresponsibility. Any ideas how they compare? thanks "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #175 November 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. GW Bush has spent money like a drunk sailor. National Debt is ~$9 TRILLION. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how the National Debt, Tax Revenue, and Interest on Nat Debt compares to a typical household's Income, Mortgage balance, and Mortgage Interest load? That should really show how bad the National debt problem is. Surely, no family could get away with that kind of irresponsibility. Any ideas how they compare? thanks In 2006, the median annual household income according to the US Census Bureau was determined to be $48,201. The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2006 was $26,036. The US National Debt works out at approx $90,000 per household.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 7 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Amazon 7 #161 November 17, 2007 QuoteOh, I doubt there would have been much uproar about the US taking out the worlds most dangerous terrorist and a Saudi Price who was meeting with that terrorist. Even if there were, it's a small price to pay if 9/11 could have been prevented, don't you think? I certainly agree.. but you have oil stocks so I cant believe you think that would have been a really good idea...the reality is NO American President is going to do ANYTHING to upset the SAUD Family.. especially George the II....remeber now almost ALL of the assholes who attacked us.. were SAUDI... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #162 November 17, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Perhaps you should try and follow along with what's being discussed instead of going into Bush-Hate mode. ROFLMAO .... check the title of this thread. Quote Never mentioned Iraq except to say that if 9/11 had never occured, we wouldn't be there today. Are you 100% certain of that? Baby Bush talked of Iraq before 9/11 and he was just dying for the excuse to get back there to finish the job Papa Bush started. Of course Papa Bush did the right thing back in '91. Too bad Baby Bush was not as smart. Look at how much debt your government now carries thanks to Baby Bush's wars. My loonie is worth more than your beloved greenback thanks to Baby Bush's stupidity. PS: I'm not about to defend either Clinton. In fact it's becoming more and more apparant these days on both sides of the border that no politicians are not worth defending. You were resonding to a statement about how much better the world would be if Clinton had gotten OBL when he had him in his sites and the next thing, you are rambling off with pre-digested flak about Bush and Iraq. Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? . Reaching again. "Our budget will run a deficit that will be small and short-term.", G.W. Bush, SOTU speech 1/29/2002, which for the chronologically challenged was AFTER 9/11/2001.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #163 November 17, 2007 QuoteYou were resonding to a statement about how much better the world would be if Clinton had gotten OBL ROFLMAO ... was I? That's news to me. Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I never said. Bash Clinton all you want. You won't find me defending him. But check the title of this thread once more. This thread started off talking about GWB, but you insist on making it a Clinton thread. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #164 November 17, 2007 QuoteQuotePerhaps you should try and follow along with what's being discussed instead of going into Bush-Hate mode. ROFLMAO .... check the title of this thread. QuoteNever mentioned Iraq except to say that if 9/11 had never occured, we wouldn't be there today. QuoteAre you 100% certain of that? Well, here's what I said: "How many Iraqi's would be alive today if Clinton had simply done his job and gotten rid of a known threat to the U.S.?" A quick re-read of what I've said will also provide you with everything else I've said. So unless your computer screen records data imput differently than mine.... So, yeah I'm pretty sure about that. QuoteSince when was Iraq ever a threat to the USA? They had no WMD and they had nothing to do with 911. But did that stop you guys from invading their country and starting a war? Would have been a moot point if OBL had been taken out and 9/11 never happened, wouldn't it? BTW when the Clinton Admin. did normal breifing as Presidents do whenever there is a change, they were very adamat that Iraq had WMDs. In fact had Al Gore been elected President, we would have been in Iraq before 9/11. QuoteBaby Bush talked of Iraq before 9/11 and he was just dying for the excuse to get back there to finish the job Papa Bush started. Of course Papa Bush did the right thing back in '91. Too bad Baby Bush was not as smart. Look at how much debt your government now carries thanks to Baby Bush's wars. My loonie is worth more than your beloved greenback thanks to Baby Bush's stupidity. Most of what you are saying is just regugitated crap from DU and Daily Kos. Come on, admit you read alot there don't you? Can you provide anything other than a newspaper article to back up your absurd assertion? The US economy is in very good shape, everything considered. Low jobless rate, tax revenues flowing into the treasury etc. This is nothing more than a cycle that those of us who understand it are capitalizing on. QuotePS: I'm not about to defend either Clinton. In fact it's becoming more and more apparant these days on both sides of the border that no politicians are not worth defending. By refusing to admit that had Clinton pulled the trigger on OBL that 9/11 would never have occured, you are in effect defending him because your denial allows you to perpetuate the myth that it's all Bush's fault. Hey, I'll be the first one to admit Bush has made a lot of mistakes. I just disagree on the methods to rectify them. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #165 November 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteOh, I doubt there would have been much uproar about the US taking out the worlds most dangerous terrorist and a Saudi Price who was meeting with that terrorist. Even if there were, it's a small price to pay if 9/11 could have been prevented, don't you think? I certainly agree.. but you have oil stocks so I cant believe you think that would have been a really good idea...the reality is NO American President is going to do ANYTHING to upset the SAUD Family.. especially George the II....remeber now almost ALL of the assholes who attacked us.. were SAUDI... Actually quite a few of the stocks I have right now are companies who manufacture equipment to construct oil refineries since the reality that we are going to have to increase that capacity very soon is becoming more apparent. Taking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. I do agree with you that the Saudi's aren't our friends. It is my great hope that we will continue to move towards more oil independence in whatever technologies will take us there. Be it building more refineries for the short term and developing solar wind etc for the longer term. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #166 November 17, 2007 QuoteTaking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. Not if it had caused oil to jump to almost $100 dollars a barrel... oh yeah thats right Bush is fucking the American people..with his nice little neo-con war.... a little war profiteering here... a little there...... and making his friends rich... and ooops Oil is now at.. what was that price of oil per barrel again...????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #167 November 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteTaking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. Not if it had caused oil to jump to almost $100 dollars a barrel... oh yeah thats right Bush is fucking the American people..with his nice little neo-con war.... a little war profiteering here... a little there...... and making his friends rich... and ooops Oil is now at.. what was that price of oil per barrel again...????? You really have no comprehension of what causes oil prices to rise and fall do you? So again you spiral down into an uneducated Bush-Hate rant. If you'd like to have a few links to some financial sites where you could educate yourself, I'd be happy to provide them. Hint: OPEC has little to do with the price of oil. It has to do with supply and demand, oil futures and China and India right now. But I guess it's easier to rant and vent hate than to actually find out the truth. Have a good evening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #168 November 18, 2007 Quote You really have no comprehension of what causes oil prices to rise and fall do you? So again you spiral down into an uneducated Bush-Hate rant. If you'd like to have a few links to some financial sites where you could educate yourself, I'd be happy to provide them. Hint: OPEC has little to do with the price of oil. It has to do with supply and demand, oil futures and China and India right now. But I guess it's easier to rant and vent hate than to actually find out the truth. You cant reallllly expect us all to believe that this excellent little adventure is not about OIL.That may play to the RUBES in flyover land about freedom and democracy or WMD.. but the root cause is the greed you guys wrap yourselves in. Just look at the news.. everytime there is a HICKUP in an oil rich region...it causes oil prices to spike...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #169 November 18, 2007 Quote Does the drunken car accident in the South outside a stateside base... equal an IED in Tikrit?? A dead soldier is a dead soldier, and you should be aghast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #170 November 18, 2007 You should know the difference in self inflicted stupidity.. and stupidity and incompetence sending our people to occupy a country that did NOT need to be invaded. With the money and lives we have wasted in Iraq....We could have bought a whole lot of cheaper oil by not destabilizing an oil producing state Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #171 November 18, 2007 I'd also be very interested to learn how much research into alternative energies could have been paind for my the global financial cost of the 'police action' against Iraq!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #172 November 18, 2007 Quote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #173 November 18, 2007 Quote Military deaths comparison (figures until 2004, so first term used for both Bush II and Clinton) N.B.> figures are for all deaths. Bush II (2001-2004): 5187 Clinton (1992-1996): 4302 If we subtract the war casualties (keeping like to like, since Clinton was a 'peacetime President): Bush II (2001-2004): (5187 - 1102) 4085 Clinton (1993-1996): 4302 Interesting... more troops died during Clinton's peace-filled utopia than under Bush, *if* you discount the combat deaths. Even if you don't, it looks like GW is doing a better job overall than Clinton was in that regard. I corrected your years, since otherwise it looks like you're being incredibly dishonest using 1992 for Clinton, a 5th year when he wasn't president. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/1848019402_c733f4d4fa_o.jpg has a nice year by year breakdown, source was Congressional Research Service. 2241 of Clinton's were due to accidents, 774 due to illness, 906 self inflicted. Fairly similar numbers to the surrounding years, as well as the 2000s, the chief difference being the spike in military deaths since 2003. Peacekeeping deaths aren't a big factor in Clinton's years and of course the worst one (Somalia) was initiated by Bush during his lame duck December in 1992. (For some reason they categorized this as terrorist related instead of hostile action) Of course, it still remains very dishonest to use the first 4 years when we're finishing year 7 of the Bush Administration, and we have a war that started in year 3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #174 November 18, 2007 QuoteQuote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. GW Bush has spent money like a drunk sailor. National Debt is ~$9 TRILLION. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how the National Debt, Tax Revenue, and Interest on Nat Debt compares to a typical household's Income, Mortgage balance, and Mortgage Interest load? That should really show how bad the National debt problem is. Surely, no family could get away with that kind of irresponsibility. Any ideas how they compare? thanks "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #175 November 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. GW Bush has spent money like a drunk sailor. National Debt is ~$9 TRILLION. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how the National Debt, Tax Revenue, and Interest on Nat Debt compares to a typical household's Income, Mortgage balance, and Mortgage Interest load? That should really show how bad the National debt problem is. Surely, no family could get away with that kind of irresponsibility. Any ideas how they compare? thanks In 2006, the median annual household income according to the US Census Bureau was determined to be $48,201. The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2006 was $26,036. The US National Debt works out at approx $90,000 per household.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 7 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Gravitymaster 0 #165 November 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteOh, I doubt there would have been much uproar about the US taking out the worlds most dangerous terrorist and a Saudi Price who was meeting with that terrorist. Even if there were, it's a small price to pay if 9/11 could have been prevented, don't you think? I certainly agree.. but you have oil stocks so I cant believe you think that would have been a really good idea...the reality is NO American President is going to do ANYTHING to upset the SAUD Family.. especially George the II....remeber now almost ALL of the assholes who attacked us.. were SAUDI... Actually quite a few of the stocks I have right now are companies who manufacture equipment to construct oil refineries since the reality that we are going to have to increase that capacity very soon is becoming more apparent. Taking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. I do agree with you that the Saudi's aren't our friends. It is my great hope that we will continue to move towards more oil independence in whatever technologies will take us there. Be it building more refineries for the short term and developing solar wind etc for the longer term. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #166 November 17, 2007 QuoteTaking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. Not if it had caused oil to jump to almost $100 dollars a barrel... oh yeah thats right Bush is fucking the American people..with his nice little neo-con war.... a little war profiteering here... a little there...... and making his friends rich... and ooops Oil is now at.. what was that price of oil per barrel again...????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #167 November 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteTaking out the worlds most wanted terrorist while he had tea with a Saudi Price would have been pretty easy to justify. Not if it had caused oil to jump to almost $100 dollars a barrel... oh yeah thats right Bush is fucking the American people..with his nice little neo-con war.... a little war profiteering here... a little there...... and making his friends rich... and ooops Oil is now at.. what was that price of oil per barrel again...????? You really have no comprehension of what causes oil prices to rise and fall do you? So again you spiral down into an uneducated Bush-Hate rant. If you'd like to have a few links to some financial sites where you could educate yourself, I'd be happy to provide them. Hint: OPEC has little to do with the price of oil. It has to do with supply and demand, oil futures and China and India right now. But I guess it's easier to rant and vent hate than to actually find out the truth. Have a good evening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #168 November 18, 2007 Quote You really have no comprehension of what causes oil prices to rise and fall do you? So again you spiral down into an uneducated Bush-Hate rant. If you'd like to have a few links to some financial sites where you could educate yourself, I'd be happy to provide them. Hint: OPEC has little to do with the price of oil. It has to do with supply and demand, oil futures and China and India right now. But I guess it's easier to rant and vent hate than to actually find out the truth. You cant reallllly expect us all to believe that this excellent little adventure is not about OIL.That may play to the RUBES in flyover land about freedom and democracy or WMD.. but the root cause is the greed you guys wrap yourselves in. Just look at the news.. everytime there is a HICKUP in an oil rich region...it causes oil prices to spike...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #169 November 18, 2007 Quote Does the drunken car accident in the South outside a stateside base... equal an IED in Tikrit?? A dead soldier is a dead soldier, and you should be aghast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #170 November 18, 2007 You should know the difference in self inflicted stupidity.. and stupidity and incompetence sending our people to occupy a country that did NOT need to be invaded. With the money and lives we have wasted in Iraq....We could have bought a whole lot of cheaper oil by not destabilizing an oil producing state Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #171 November 18, 2007 I'd also be very interested to learn how much research into alternative energies could have been paind for my the global financial cost of the 'police action' against Iraq!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #172 November 18, 2007 Quote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #173 November 18, 2007 Quote Military deaths comparison (figures until 2004, so first term used for both Bush II and Clinton) N.B.> figures are for all deaths. Bush II (2001-2004): 5187 Clinton (1992-1996): 4302 If we subtract the war casualties (keeping like to like, since Clinton was a 'peacetime President): Bush II (2001-2004): (5187 - 1102) 4085 Clinton (1993-1996): 4302 Interesting... more troops died during Clinton's peace-filled utopia than under Bush, *if* you discount the combat deaths. Even if you don't, it looks like GW is doing a better job overall than Clinton was in that regard. I corrected your years, since otherwise it looks like you're being incredibly dishonest using 1992 for Clinton, a 5th year when he wasn't president. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/1848019402_c733f4d4fa_o.jpg has a nice year by year breakdown, source was Congressional Research Service. 2241 of Clinton's were due to accidents, 774 due to illness, 906 self inflicted. Fairly similar numbers to the surrounding years, as well as the 2000s, the chief difference being the spike in military deaths since 2003. Peacekeeping deaths aren't a big factor in Clinton's years and of course the worst one (Somalia) was initiated by Bush during his lame duck December in 1992. (For some reason they categorized this as terrorist related instead of hostile action) Of course, it still remains very dishonest to use the first 4 years when we're finishing year 7 of the Bush Administration, and we have a war that started in year 3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #174 November 18, 2007 QuoteQuote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. GW Bush has spent money like a drunk sailor. National Debt is ~$9 TRILLION. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how the National Debt, Tax Revenue, and Interest on Nat Debt compares to a typical household's Income, Mortgage balance, and Mortgage Interest load? That should really show how bad the National debt problem is. Surely, no family could get away with that kind of irresponsibility. Any ideas how they compare? thanks "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #175 November 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Then you are off about the debt. How much debt would we have if 9/11 never happened? If we look at the prior GOP administrations...about what we saw here. GW Bush has spent money like a drunk sailor. National Debt is ~$9 TRILLION. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how the National Debt, Tax Revenue, and Interest on Nat Debt compares to a typical household's Income, Mortgage balance, and Mortgage Interest load? That should really show how bad the National debt problem is. Surely, no family could get away with that kind of irresponsibility. Any ideas how they compare? thanks In 2006, the median annual household income according to the US Census Bureau was determined to be $48,201. The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2006 was $26,036. The US National Debt works out at approx $90,000 per household.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
