kelpdiver 2 #26 November 16, 2007 AR-15 is a non option in CA (original poster didn't give a location), and the cost differential to the 870 is substantial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #27 November 16, 2007 Quote Shotguns have been proven inferior to the AR-15 platform in home defense. It seems to me that any rifle caliber is going to be more prone to overpenetration than a shotshell, unless Newton's laws have been repealed (velocity of the 5.56 vs. shotshell). It seems (from the quick scan of google that I did), that opinions seem to be mixed on the subject, and that the 5.56 proponents are counting on the 5.56 going unstable to limit penetration on further material. Very lightweight rounds (40gr or so) seem to be a requirement. For the OP: IF you were to use a MkIII for home defense, and IF the person you shot with it ever found OUT about it... Honestly - I'm in the camp that ANY gun is better than no gun in a self defense situation, but - with a 22, you're going to have to have pinpoint precision for it to be effective. That's *not* a likely situation when you've just been woken from a sound sleep and your adrenaline is sky-high...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccallj 0 #28 November 16, 2007 Rifles and handguns are not good for home defense because the bullet can go through the intruder and kill whatever is on the other side of him or into your neighbors house. Get a Thunder5, handgun made in Tennessee, it accepts .410 shells. I have one of killing snakes but it also gets used as a home defense weapon. You don't want something like a rifle or handgun that you have to cock because if someone is in your house you will most likely be shit your pants scared and its just one less thing to worry about. The thunder 5 is the way to go.“Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier than helping someone move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load his shit into a truck.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #29 November 16, 2007 If I *were* to use a shotgun, I doubt it would be a 410 - maybe a 16 or 20 gauge, minimum. As it is, I have a .45 that fills that role just fine.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph_W 0 #30 November 16, 2007 If you use a shotgun, Brenneke has an excellent round called "Tactical Home Defense". Nice, accurate slug with not too much recoil.Silence is golden. www.bt-ag.ch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,303 #31 November 16, 2007 QuoteBesides, if one of your loved ones has a knife or gun to their head or throat, are you going to take that shot with a shotgun? One is not going to take that shot with a 7.65 that is laser-sighted to 1mm. That is a whole different situation. You can research your butt off and we can debate the practical application that fits the situation (the right tool for the right job). In some situations, a .38 is right, others an MP5, others a .22, etc. It's no different than choosing the right weapon when you go hunting. You wouldn't want to go Grizzly hunting with a .22 and you don't go rabbit hunting with 00 buck. Overall, in a home defense situation; "for me," I am most comfortable with an 870 with alternating rounds as previously mentioned. (that was the part that started with "IMO").Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #32 November 16, 2007 Wait until I tell all the guys that all the research done in real world conditions is all wrong! Hey I did not know an AR-15 in 7.65 was laser sighted to 1mm, did the laser have a shark attached? Why would you want a .32acp AR-15, going old school on em?( I think you meant 5.56mm right?) FRIGGEN SHARKS WITH LASER BEAMS MOUNTED ON THEIR HEADS! now that is home defense! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #33 November 16, 2007 QuoteAR-15 is a non option in CA I don't believe this is correct unless there was a recent law change. They can not have a detachable magazine and are limited in capacity. One might argue that they are not truly AR-15's, but that is a different argument. While I have a Sig 226 with crimson trace sights and a .45 SA Operator that I am proficient with, I still believe all around the 870(or any pump) is a better choice for most peope. The racking if the slide will put a good % of BG's on the run. The only thing I dont like about mine is it is hard to carry a flashlite while handling them, where this is not the case with a handgun. I have clip lights which are blinding, but the separate flashlight(60 lumens) is easy to handle also. The MKIII is a great gun but I would be hesitant to suggest it for defense. If an intruder also has a weapon, by showing your own you are inviting a shootout. Do you want to be in a shootout with a .22. Some people grab a gun just thinking it well scare an intruder off, and it many, many times that is the case. But look at the flip side. The intruder might have a gun just to scare you with no intention of using it, but now he has a gun pointed at him. That is not a situation I would want to be in with a .22. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,303 #34 November 16, 2007 QuoteHey I did not know an AR-15 in 7.65 was laser sighted to 1mm, did the laser have a shark attached? I made a typo... 7.62, not 7.65... You were talking about .223 and a specific situation,. My point was that even if we used the same situation, but a better round/weapon (i.e., G3A4 with laser sight), that still was a shot you wouldn't want to take. OK... I exaggerated a bit on the 1mm - how about an 1/8th of an inch.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #35 November 16, 2007 I've changed my mind--I plan on throwing ill-tempered meerkats at intruduers.Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #36 November 16, 2007 an 1/8 of an inch is approximately 1\8th MOA @100yds. or look at it this way, you could theoretically shoot 1/2" groups at 400yds, with a weapon that accurate. I have an AR-15 that will hit tennis balls @ 600yds using Lapua ammo. Just sighting that rifle in I was able to shoot a 0.34" 5 shot group at 100yds.(Rainbo and Gene03 saw the target) I used bags in the front to support the FF tube, and used my hands/arms for rear support. 123grain Lapua Scenars in Lapua brass, using a Leupold 6.5-20x 40mm EFR scope Not accurate enough for you? Would you still would not take that shot, or would you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,303 #37 November 16, 2007 QuoteWould you still would not take that shot, or would you? As long as the gun is held to a family member's head; I would not.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #38 November 16, 2007 QuoteQuoteAR-15 is a non option in CA I don't believe this is correct unless there was a recent law change. They can not have a detachable magazine and are limited in capacity. One might argue that they are not truly AR-15's, but that is a different argument. The AR-15 has been out since 2001 under the AW ban/registration of that year. (Might be 2000, with a year to admit you have one). So unless you already had one...no dice. (transfers or technically merely loaning it would be illegal) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #39 November 16, 2007 QuoteIf you like the shotgun, try to get the shortest possible. Let me clarify, just to make sure no one goes out and gets a hacksaw and gets themselves in trouble. The shortest legal barrel length for a shotgun is 18 inches. Make it 18.5 just to be safe. Anything less can earn you 10 years in prison. Or get your wife and son murdered by Federal agents, as did Randy Weaver for that "crime". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,303 #40 November 16, 2007 John, Isn't there an overall length requirement also?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #41 November 16, 2007 I guess many may not agree with me, but I think even a lowly 22 would be a whole lot better than nothing in a home defense situation. I know people who shoot good sized steers every year with a 22 rifle, when they butcher. They use one shot, between the eyes. It may not take pin-point accuracy either. At point blank range you could put several 22 L.R. shots into the chest of an intruder. I'd bet it would be lethal. The heart lung area is pretty big, and a 22 L.R. would probably penetrate deep enough. I'd much rather have a 22 than say a knife or club. Don't get me wrong, there are better home defense weapons. I'd much rather have a bigger gun for that purpose, but a 22 L.R. might just might get the job done. Years ago, I read a story of a guy who was floating down a river in Alaska. A grizzly was popping his jaws at him on shore. This big bear then came out into the river next to his rubber boat. All he had handy was a 22 rifle. He shot it once in the side of the head, and it sank below the surface and died. I wouldn't think a 22 long rifle could penetrate that much skull...but it did.... I read another story of a guy who was chased up a tree by a bear. It was trying to bite his feet and legs. He shot it once in the mouth with a 22 pistol and that was the end of the bear....Just some food for thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #42 November 16, 2007 QuoteAnyone agree with the statement that a well-placed double tap from a pistol shooting .22LR can be an effective home defence solution? I think a tank with hand grenades for backup is quite an effective home defense solution.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #43 November 16, 2007 depends, if the intruder is Polish, a taser will do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #44 November 16, 2007 Quote depends, if the intruder is Polish, a taser will do. That was a shitty thing to say about persons of Polish decent. I wonder if you do that in person... I know of several poles that would take offense, and one in particular that would let you know right away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #45 November 16, 2007 Quoteseveral poles that would take offense People nowaways take offense so easily. So sensitive...so emotional...7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #46 November 16, 2007 And quite dangerous when you insult their entire ancestry.You just took offense because someone opined that they think marijuana smokers deserve to get arrested. So how is it that you do the same damned thing and think it is quite alright? Think about that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #47 November 16, 2007 QuoteThat was a shitty thing to say about persons of Polish decent. I wonder if you do that in person... Yup, just did to a Polish Police Sergeant working for me.....he thought it was funny Didn't refer back to the nationality, but to an incident....check another thread.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #48 November 16, 2007 Some will find it humorous, and at other times find it to be a huge insult, it makes a difference how it was said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #49 November 16, 2007 I hear ya. The only difference was that one statement was intended as a joke, and the other as a personal attack. I had to stand up for my pot smoking buddies 7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #50 November 16, 2007 QuoteIsn't there an overall length requirement also? Yes: 26 inches. So, sawing off the barrel down to a legal 18", but then also sawing off most of the stock, could still get you 10 years in prison. Who would've thought that sawing a piece of wood could be so criminal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
