William F. Buckley on Marijuana

[lawrocket 3]

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when people want to give cocaine to babies, they should be allowed to do that

No. Then you are affecting someone else. It's a different thing altogether.

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when do you think people are old enough to decide whether or not to destroy their own life?

When they hit the age of 18 or graduate from high school or get themselves legally emancipated. Let the legal drinking age be 18. Wanna smoke? 18.

Some may be more emotionally mature than others. Some 14 year olds may be 18, emotionally, but to make things easier and more uniform to apply, make it 18.

At that point it is your life. The consequence is yours.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[pop 0]

You gave 2 reasons for not doing drugs. One of them was"2) I'm a naturally addictive personality, and thus I believe that I AM the person who would simply like it too much. I see no use taking that risk. "

Then you said "I drink alcohol"

Alcohol is a drug so...for the same reason you dont smoke pot, you do drink alcohol.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[lawrocket 3]

Indeed. It is somewhat more complicated than that. As I indicated, the first reason is that it s illegal.

Alcohol - yeah, I used to drinka lot more. It took some willpower to control it, and I suppose I could control it with pot.

It's not to say that pot doesn't interest me or that I even object to people using pot. I do not. A friend who is like a brother to me uses it, and when we'd hanghis family and friends would be around, and I'd be offered the chance. I'd refuse, and they respected it. It's like they found a person who abstained to have a fine character trait that was best found int others.

There is some inherent hypocrisy in what I am stating. I'll admit that. Some, like you, may consider it to be an arbitrary line that I draw. That's fine - you may be right.

However, it's a line that I draw personally. Much like I find nothing wrong with the line that you draw, neither should someone call me to task for the line that I draw.

Most importantly, though, is that we should be allowed to draw our own lines, and not make that line drawn by the caprice of someone who is lookign out for our best interests, unless the person is a minor whose lines have been drawn for them.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[pop 0]

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Most importantly, though, is that we should be allowed to draw our own lines, and not make that line drawn by the caprice of someone who is lookign out for our best interests, unless the person is a minor whose lines have been drawn for them.

I couldnt agree with you more.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[jakee 1,489]

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exactly and when people want to give cocaine to babies, they should be allowed to do that....

I think we need a new word, because non sequitur doesn't even begin to cover that!

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So, lawrocket, when do you think people are old enough to decide whether or not to destroy their own life?

How about when we think they're old enough to have a say in who makes those decisions for them?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,026]

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Change the law. Until then, breaking the law carries penalties. Stop whining.

ExAFO, is that you?

ExAFO gets banned and the very next day Esquilax pops up with the same posting style.

Hmmm.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,026]

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Did you like Trumpton too?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diablopilot 2]

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because even though I choose not to ruin my life, others should be able to fuck themselves up if they like.

I didnt realize you could do that with pot. With crack, heroin, alcohol, cocaine I can see that, but how with pot?

edited: Based on your previous answer I am ssuming you dont drink alcohol. If that's the case, then I respect your consistency. (Alcohol is by far more dangerous then pot, and not only to oneself, but to others around the drunk person)

Shoot. Depending on ones perspective, that's what I've done with skydiving.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[TheAnvil 0]

It's high time mainstream conservatives start looking at reality. Way to go Mr. Buckley.

Never smoked weed myself, but I fully support its legalization.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[1969912 0]

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Change the law. until then, STFU and be an adult if/when you're caught.

We who seek legalization seek to change the law. I have not been caught, nor will I be because I neither use nor possess illegal drugs.

Thus, my actions are not based upon being pissed off and whining about getting pinched. It is not sour grapes on my part. Rather, it's my belief that people should be allowed to put anything in their own bodies that they want, whether it be drugs, trans fat, a penis or even a bullet.

I'm still not sure it should be legalized, but only out of concern that it may become easier for kids to get. MJ (esp. chronic use) has profound negative effects on social and intellectual development in kids (jr High - 20 years old or so).

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Andy9o8 2]

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Change the law. Until then, breaking the law carries penalties. Stop whining.

ExAFO, is that you?
ExAFO gets banned and the very next day Esquilax pops up with the same posting style.
Hmmm.

You read my mind, John; I've been thinking exactly the same thing these past few days, too. Mostly from those random "the manx cat likes to lick his balls" posts.
He either is ExAFO or he's deliberately imitating ExAFO.

(Now, if it's the latter, maybe it's UntamedDOG. Or maybe it's Peaceful Jeffrey who wants us to think it's UntamedDOG imitating ExAFO. I need to go back to bed.)

[1969912 0]

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It's high time mainstream conservatives start looking at reality. Way to go Mr. Buckley.

Quickie history of MJ laws (with political party info added by me):


The Harrison Narcotics Tax Act of 1914 (First US Drug Law???) was a United States federal law that regulated and taxed the production, importation, and distribution of opiates. The act was proposed by Representative Francis Burton Harrison (DEMOCRAT) of New York and was approved....


1937 Marihuana Tax Act was one of the cornerstone bills that led to the criminalization of cannabis. It was introduced to U.S. Congress by "Drug Czar" Harry Anslinger, (DEMOCRAT), then Commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics....


The 1951 Boggs Act. Congressman Thomas Hale Boggs, Sr., (DEMOCRAT) increased penalties fourfold; five years later, the 1956 Daniel Act Sen. Marion Price Daniel, Sr., (DEMOCRAT)....... increased penalties by a factor of eight over those specified in the Boggs Act. Although by this time there was adequate testimony to refute the claim that marijuana caused insanity, criminality, or death.....


Nixon's (REPUBLICAN) modern-day War on Drugs began in 1969. He characterized the abuse of illicit substances as "public enemy number one in the United States" at a press conference given on June 17th, 1971....


In 1988, towards the close of the Reagan (REPUBLICAN) administration, the Office of National Drug Control Policy was created for central coordination of drug-related legislative, security, diplomatic, research and health policy throughout the government. In recognition of his central role, the director of ONDCP is commonly known as the Drug Czar. The position was raised to cabinet-level status by Bill Clinton (DEMOCRAT) in 1993.....

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[likearock 2]

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The overwhelming majority of users I know however, just use it to unwind after work.

Indeed. And there is a risk in doing that. What if they get busted making a buy? That can cause problems at work, and even with the family.

There's also a risk in skydiving, isn't there? Aren't we all playing the risk/reward game? Yet you make this point about pot and not skydiving simply because one is legal and the other is not. Isn't that a bit sheeplike?

[juanesky 0]

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I smoked a joint before my 2nd AFF jump and passed. Never again. Was paranoid like a motherfucker.

I did that twice myself to see what it would be like, and once you get ou of the plain, the high goes awy, but the paranoia doesnt. Never did it again either. I wouldnt even jump hung over. Not fun that way.

Isn't this great?

You both should be suspended in violation of FAR's sections 65.12; 91.17 and 105.7.

You both should be suspended for a year, for endangerment to fellow skydivers.

It's ok whatever you decide to do, get high or not, but not endanger anyone. It is as bad as drunk driving.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Andy9o8 2]

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I smoked a joint before my 2nd AFF jump and passed. Never again. Was paranoid like a motherfucker.

I did that twice myself to see what it would be like, and once you get ou of the plain, the high goes awy, but the paranoia doesnt. Never did it again either. I wouldnt even jump hung over. Not fun that way.

Isn't this great?

You both should be suspended in violation of FAR's sections 65.12; 91.17 and 105.7.

You both should be suspended for a year, for endangerment to fellow skydivers.

It's ok whatever you decide to do, get high or not, but not endanger anyone. It is as bad as drunk driving.

What he said. It's an incredibly selfish act. If you jump while you're drunk or stoned, you endanger everyone. Stay the fuck off my plane. Come to think of it, when they run the toxicology on your corpse after you cream in, they'll find out that the DZO and pilot, not to mention your AFFI, all "let" you jump that way. The result, once the FAA and your family has done their thing, may be to effectively shut down the DZ and ruin a bunch of careers. So if you want to jump while you're drunk or stoned, stay the fuck off my DZ.

[n23x 0]

I absolutely don't condone the consumption of anything that might alter the decision making abilities, or the rate of that decision, before participating in a "group" activity such as skydiving.

However, you might want to swing that judgemental door the other way, and extend it to people hung over, still drunk from the night before, too tired, etc.

Some (lots of) people on DZ.com seem to like to participate in the Boogie-mentality (jump, get loaded, wake up and jump your hangover off).

Deeming an appropriate level of intoxication is just too subjective and damning, in my own opinion.

(Not disagreeing with you on much, just saying you should hold the equivalent amount of contempt for those that party too hard on the DZ and then choose to jump. I'm sure you're not one of those people though, and never have been

edited: thanks jakee, makes a bit more sense now, ehhh?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[jakee 1,489]

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I absolutely condone the consumption of anything that might alter the decision making abilities, or the rate of that decision, before participating in a "group" activity such as skydiving.

You may want to check your dictionary there.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SivaGanesha 2]

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What he said. It's an incredibly selfish act. If you jump while you're drunk or stoned, you endanger everyone. Stay the fuck off my plane. Come to think of it, when they run the toxicology on your corpse after you cream in, they'll find out that the DZO and pilot, not to mention your AFFI, all "let" you jump that way. The result, once the FAA and your family has done their thing, may be to effectively shut down the DZ and ruin a bunch of careers. So if you want to jump while you're drunk or stoned, stay the fuck off my DZ.

Interestingly, the Marijuana Party of Canada is a legitimate registered political party in Canada. (Indeed, technically speaking they have been a legal party for longer than the party that currently controls the Canadian gov't). One of their official candidates in the 2000 Canadian election was a skydiver from my original DZ back in Canada.

Part of his platform seemed to be that he needed to smoke pot for 'medicinal reasons' related to lingering pain from--you guessed it--a serious skydiving injury. I have no idea whether his original injury was caused by jumping while stoned--it occurred very close to the time I originally started the sport, but I wasn't at the DZ when it happened. However, I highly doubt he started smoking only after his injury.

The DZ in question had never had--and still hasn't ever had--a fatality. By all accounts, though, they--and he--were very lucky that day not to lose that perfect record.

On one level I agree with all the comments about safety, etc. But I have to say that on another level I'm kind of proud to have once smoked a joint at the DZ with a founding member of the Marijuana Party of Canada.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[freethefly 6]

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I've seen plenty of people fuck up their lives on pot. They lose their cars and businesses, etc., simply because of the illegality of what they are doing.

It is not the pot that fucks up their lives, it is the law that fucks it up. On the otherhand, your legal drug of choice is responsible for many ruined lives.
Skid row is full of those whose life was ruined due to your legal drug. Alcohol is a highly addictive, dangerouse drug. It makes people stupid. It makes many violent. It is responsible for a high number of motor vehicle deaths. Loss time at work. Work related accidents. Health problems. Divorce, child abuse, spouse abuse. The list goes on and on with the problems your drug of choice has cost society. With so many problems that your legal drug has caused, it should be illegal.
Just go to near any dz after the beer light is turned and watch how moronic the people get. Some stay up until the early morning hours drinking and then gear up a few hours later to jump. People jump hungover and laugh about it. Fucking idiots.
I'm not against drinking a few and calling it quits. I like a cold beer once in a very great while. I also like a shot of bourbon a few times a year. But, there are many who drink every night until they are shitfaced drunk. I've seen so many people leave the dz after downing a crap load of beer. I hope that they kill only themselves if they are to be in an accident due to their driving drunk so that innocent lives are not ruined due to your legal drug.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

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Change the law. Until then, breaking the law carries penalties. Stop whining.

ExAFO, is that you?

ExAFO gets banned and the very next day Esquilax pops up with the same posting style.

Hmmm.

Hmmmm, I was thinking the exact samething.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[juanesky 0]

And maybe you should read the Fars in question here, it mentions about wait time after alcohol consumption of at least 8 hours.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[happythoughts 0]

Take a bar and divide it into two sides. Side A serves alcohol, side B serves pot.

A fight breaks out ? Which side is it on ? A or B ?

A customer leaves and drives at a high rate of speed ?
A or B ?

A customer arrives home and is involved in a domestic dispute ?
A or B ?

At some level, smoking anything is probably bad for our health. Lungs, heart, etc. I can't say that constant pot use is good for anyones health. It's not.

In theory, legalizing pot may reduce alcohol consumption. That alone would be enough to validate legalizing it.

Laws are designed to protect people from themselves or others. It seems that the consequences of mild use of smoking pot far outweigh the actual dangers.

[freethefly 6]

The answers are A., A., A.
Alcohol is the most dangerous drug that is legally used. It has caused more deaths than all of the illegal drugs combined. Yet, it is advertised and pushed on to the next generation of legal drinkers to come of age. Personally I'd like to see it banned at all events including dropzones. Drunk people are a danger to everyone. They are obnoxous, ignorant fools. I never stay at the dz when the beer light comes on. I much rather be far away from those people who get falling down drunk or want to bend your ear for an hour talking gibberish. I actually laugh my ass off when one of them gets a dwi. Maybe they will learn something. It also seems that the biggest drunks on any dz are those who don't even skydive. Go over to the bonfire and take a look at the jump numbers and years in the sport of those who constantly post about how much they drink at the dz and at home. I think those people are only around for the drinking and want to boast that they are skydivers but never actually jump. Being a drunk on the dz makes you look like a moron. Being a drunk on the dz who does even skydive makes you look like, well, just a stupid drunk. If your only there for the booze, go away and take the booze with ya. I should maybe look into what the airport authority thinks about all of the drinking that goes on at city operated airports. Chances are they wouldn't be very happy about it. Likewise with smoking and jumping. If ya want to get stupidly drunk, go home and do it. If ya want to smoke a joint, go home and do it. Safer for everyone.

Marijuana vs. Alcohol:
http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/32/

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[kallend 2,026]

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Take a bar and divide it into two sides. Side A serves alcohol, side B serves pot.

A fight breaks out ? Which side is it on ? A or B ?

A customer leaves and drives at a high rate of speed ?
A or B ?

A customer arrives home and is involved in a domestic dispute ?
A or B ?

.

A, A, A. Do I get a gold star and a smiley face?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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We're not going to find someone running for president who advocates reform of those laws. What is required is a genuine republican groundswell. It is happening, but ever so gradually. Two of every five Americans, according to a 2003 Zogby poll cited by Dr. Nadelmann, believe "the government should treat marijuana more or less the same way it treats alcohol: It should regulate it, control it, tax it, and make it illegal only for children."

Wow.. a reality check from the conservative side of the world.. go figure

Me thinks Mr Buckley is old school conservative, one who is capable of thinking for himself and actually changing course.

Just think of all the taxes the government could raise... regulate it.. tax it and stop filling our prisons with people who are not dangerous to the rest of us....use the room for those who are a threat.