Richards 0
QuoteQuoteIt can't be first degree murder - the thief started the sequence of events.
Had he never stepped through the door, there would had been no confrontation. He forced the confrontation thus making himself the aggressor. He should had never gone outside.
Oh, I'm not saying he bears no responsibility for the situation. But first degree murder requires premediation prior to the event, and that's not evident here. He saw people breaking into a house next door and choose to act. In Texas that may be perfectly legal. In CA it's probably manslaughter. I think it would be a stretch to get a 2nd degree conviction for it.
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt can't be first degree murder - the thief started the sequence of events.
Had he never stepped through the door, there would had been no confrontation. He forced the confrontation thus making himself the aggressor. He should had never gone outside.
Oh, I'm not saying he bears no responsibility for the situation. But first degree murder requires premediation prior to the event, and that's not evident here. He saw people breaking into a house next door and choose to act. In Texas that may be perfectly legal. In CA it's probably manslaughter. I think it would be a stretch to get a 2nd degree conviction for it.
He was specific on what his intentions were when he told the 911 operator "I'm going to kill them". A few seconds later he says "Boom, you're dead" and shots are heard.
It is my understanding that if you think out the act before committing the act then that is 1rst degree murder.
He stated that he was in fact going to kill them and then he did. That is murder.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
no, first degree requires premeditation, prior to the event. A person who plans in a calm state of mind and then goes on to commit the action is considered more heinous than someone who acts in heat of passion/emotion.
QuoteQuoteQuoteNow, I could be wrong about this, as I heard it on the radio, but according to them, when he shot the two guys, they were charging at him with crow bars in his yard.
If I remember correctly, he did say, "stop or I'll shoot," and thats when they came at him, then you hear, "boom, you're dead."
If this is true, does it justify him shooting them?
No, he should have stayed in his own house, not act like he's rambo
But what about helping ? Or are we all to adhear to your aproach? Act like a liberal puss
Oh, then we all should become our own little system of justice? Make up the rules as we go? Should everyone just go about shooting anyone who breaks a law? My nephew, Aggie Dave and all other LEO's should just turn in their gear and go home? Maybe next time you see someone, say maybe... breaking into a car (never mind that they may own the car and merely locked the keys inside, small details are not important when a chance to be Rambo arises), be a helpful citizen and gun them down. To hell with our court system.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
Quoteno, first degree requires premeditation, prior to the event. A person who plans in a calm state of mind and then goes on to commit the action is considered more heinous than someone who acts in heat of passion/emotion.
From the law library;
MURDER, FIRST DEGREE - In order for someone to be found guilty of first degree murder the government must prove that the person killed another person; the person killed the other person with malice aforethought; and the killing was premeditated.
To kill with malice aforethought means to kill either deliberately and intentionally or recklessly with extreme disregard for human life.
Premeditation means with planning or deliberation. The amount of time needed for premeditation of a killing depends on the person and the circumstances. It must be long enough, after forming the intent to kill, for the killer to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the killing.
MURDER, SECOND DEGREE - In order for someone to be found guilty of second degree murder the government must prove that the person killed another person; the person killed the other person with malice aforethought; and the killing was premeditated. Note that the elements are identical with those for 1st degree murder. The practical difference is the sentences are different. Which crime to charge is usually entirely up to the prosecutor¼s discretion.
MURDER, THIRD DEGREE - when unintentionally, through their own reckless, dangerous behavior, kill someone.
Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder
It does seem that by his own words that his intent was to kill and nothing less.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNow, I could be wrong about this, as I heard it on the radio, but according to them, when he shot the two guys, they were charging at him with crow bars in his yard.
If I remember correctly, he did say, "stop or I'll shoot," and thats when they came at him, then you hear, "boom, you're dead."
If this is true, does it justify him shooting them?
No, he should have stayed in his own house, not act like he's rambo
But what about helping ? Or are we all to adhear to your aproach? Act like a liberal puss
Oh, then we all should become our own little system of justice? Make up the rules as we go? Should everyone just go about shooting anyone who breaks a law? My nephew, Aggie Dave and all other LEO's should just turn in their gear and go home? Maybe next time you see someone, say maybe... breaking into a car (never mind that they may own the car and merely locked the keys inside, small details are not important when a chance to be Rambo arises), be a helpful citizen and gun them down. To hell with our court system.
too right
it seems that some people on here live in permant fear that everybody they come in to contact with might kill them, and that their paranoia is sufficent for them to kill them "just to be safe"
I know every country has a few gun problems, but i'm seriously glad i don't live in America with the level of paranoia that some gun lovers show
QuoteQuoteUnder Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.
Criminal mischief? Has anyone the foggiest idea what that mean?
I have had cops threaten to arrest me for criminal mischief when one of my dogs crap'd in a wooded area of a park!
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"
OverTech 0
Quote
He was specific on what his intentions were when he told the 911 operator "I'm going to kill them". A few seconds later he says "Boom, you're dead" and shots are heard.
It is my understanding that if you think out the act before committing the act then that is 1rst degree murder.
He stated that he was in fact going to kill them and then he did. That is murder.
Actually he said "Move, you're dead". Apparently they moved. And when he said "I'm gonna kill 'em", it was in response to the operator telling him he was going to get shot.
Not that I agree or disagree with what he did, I wasn't there. Maybe they went for their guns when he confronted them, maybe they tried to bum rush him. At that point it becomes self defense. As far as I know there is no law against confronting a suspected burglar. I hope that if my neighbors ever see someone making off with "loot" from my house they try to stop them.
But anyway, it's for the courts to decide if the right to protect property extends to the property of your neighbor.
Dave
mnealtx 0
QuoteI know every country has a few gun problems, but i'm seriously glad i don't live in America with the level of paranoia that some gun lovers show
Stop projecting YOUR insecurities on others. Preparedness != paranoia.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
dannydan 5
I wonder if the SHOTGUN SHOOTER and the Deputy from Idaho who shot the FAMILY dog are related???
Gali109 0
This is a very interesting thread I just read today. I understand people who may have some sympathy for this guy who took justice on his own hand. Those guys were apparently doing something wrong and this other guy felt strongly he had to do something to stop this injustice. This is by itself not a bad thing. But what may feel right might not be the right thing to do for the overall goal to leave peacefully and progress altogether. In this case, killing somebody to protect some VCR’s, DVD players or any other material stuff just seems wrong to me. But I assume the guy was scared, not trained for this kind of situation and the only thing he can think of since he felt he had to do something was to shot those guys. So he should be trialed in my opinion because it was wrong. I completely agree that when somebody’s life is at stake, it’s right to try to stop the threat (self defense….). So maybe the right thing to do in this case is to gather as much info as we can for the police (pictures, descriptions of the guys, plates….). This may help the police to arrest those guys without having to kill them.
Laurent - www.RhythmSkydiving.com
I have never read so much cry baby, Liberal, whining and bullshit in my life! The rights of the bad guys? Huh? What the fuck! Do you believe that if they (the dim whits that got shot) were confronted and armed that they would not have shot the neighbor or any other poor asshole whom might have happed by. Why is it that you all feel so strongly about the letter of the law, when the persons whom are committing the crimes do not give a fuck! and have never been concerned with the letter of the law, only as the punishment that may occour if they happen to get caught, and if they had a jury of dipshits like yourselves whom would have left them off!
MY opinion fuck-em just some more assholes that we as tax payers will not have to educate and support through the criminal system any longer, if we were to kill more they would become enlightened to the fact that there are consequences to crime other than the get out of jail free card given out by the Liberal court system! So now you will resond with, "if you support this attitude than everyone would need to be afraid of everyone" and my response is! If you are stepping on another fellow turf or personal property to the extent that he may shoot you! Well you are probably across the line. But I am shure you will be unable to comprehend this approach, it takes away your ability to walk around life and claim stupid for your actions with no recourse for what you have done! Our current punishment system dones not work! It is a day care center for the useless of society, we feed um, educate um, give them a place to stay that is better than they have before they get arrested, give them the ability to create ties and bonds with other criminals them turn them loose to take advantage of us again! In today system there is no punishment, only time off from the business of crime.
MY opinion fuck-em just some more assholes that we as tax payers will not have to educate and support through the criminal system any longer, if we were to kill more they would become enlightened to the fact that there are consequences to crime other than the get out of jail free card given out by the Liberal court system! So now you will resond with, "if you support this attitude than everyone would need to be afraid of everyone" and my response is! If you are stepping on another fellow turf or personal property to the extent that he may shoot you! Well you are probably across the line. But I am shure you will be unable to comprehend this approach, it takes away your ability to walk around life and claim stupid for your actions with no recourse for what you have done! Our current punishment system dones not work! It is a day care center for the useless of society, we feed um, educate um, give them a place to stay that is better than they have before they get arrested, give them the ability to create ties and bonds with other criminals them turn them loose to take advantage of us again! In today system there is no punishment, only time off from the business of crime.
nerdgirl 0
QuoteLook, take a peek at the countries with the lowest crime rates and see what punishment they have for steeling. Not saying that is right either but, well, just take a look and report back .
Noticed no one responded on this part of the comment. I did look ... don't want to live many of the places w/low reported burglary rates per UN Crime Statistics (e.g., Saudi Arabia). The pure statistics do need some analysis to draw meaningful conclusions, because the superficial one seems to be lowest crime rate correlates to lack of civil liberties, lack of due process of law, & oppressive theocratic dictatorships.
India and South Korea have very low reported burglary rates as well, so that correlation quickly fails.
Here's one per capita ordering based on 1998-2000 Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems for 54 countries. A few notables are absent: Russia, China.
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
joedirt 0
A VCR is no big deal but if someone tried to steal my DVR, i'd gun them down in the street like a sewer rat.
QuoteWTF
So it's ok to kill people for burglary now is it?
It wasn't anything to do with him, he wasn't in any danger if he stayed in his own house, the police were on their way... he should be tried for murder
Hell yea! After being broke into 6 times recently in 7 weeks between two different vechiles outside my business and loft and broke into business in shitbag Dallas, TX (glass and concrete armpit), FUCK YEA, blow them THE FUCK AWAY.
And it is mostly illegal mex. Fuck them! Throw them out!!!. The cops even said it is them mostly doing it and Dallas is a sanctuary city which is BS. BMV (breaking in Motor Vehicle) in Dallas is only a misdemeanor, what a crock. They put em out on the street next morning and they free to go out and do it over and over again because there is no where to keep them locked up, too many for ICE to deport so I say shoot there asses off!
Lonmg live the NEW Castle Doctrine!
>
Only if it's the Brown Ale type
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNow, I could be wrong about this, as I heard it on the radio, but according to them, when he shot the two guys, they were charging at him with crow bars in his yard.
If I remember correctly, he did say, "stop or I'll shoot," and thats when they came at him, then you hear, "boom, you're dead."
If this is true, does it justify him shooting them?
No, he should have stayed in his own house, not act like he's rambo
But what about helping ? Or are we all to adhear to your aproach? Act like a liberal puss
Oh, then we all should become our own little system of justice? Make up the rules as we go? Should everyone just go about shooting anyone who breaks a law? My nephew, Aggie Dave and all other LEO's should just turn in their gear and go home? Maybe next time you see someone, say maybe... breaking into a car (never mind that they may own the car and merely locked the keys inside, small details are not important when a chance to be Rambo arises), be a helpful citizen and gun them down. To hell with our court system.
Wow, now here is a stretch
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
nerdgirl 0
Does anyone know or heard anything to suggest whether the burglars were shot in the front or in the back?
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
ryoder 1,590
QuoteDoes anyone know or heard anything to suggest whether the burglars were shot in the front or in the back?
VR/Marg
IIRC one was shot in the chest, the other in the side.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.
Gawain 0
QuoteQuoteit appears you live in a country where you can kill people for simply doing wrong..... doesn't make it right though
That's the way it was done in the old west. Maybe Texas is still lagging behind the rest of the US in proper justice...
But yeah, I think the neighbor pumping buckshot into lethal locations on the two poor bastards was over doing it. Why not just shoot them in the lower legs? They're not going anywhere after that.
I know of no situation where training is done to use a gun to simply "immobilize" a target. Center mass every time.
Guns are not intended to "shoot a man in the leg". There is no such thing as a "warning shot".
I'm with Mr. Horn in this case.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Very sad. I cannot even begin to imagine how he felt about it when he saw who it was. Can you imnagine what it must have been like for him to tell her parents?