Won't sign a traffic ticket? That's a tasering!

[jakee 1,563]

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I guess I have dealt with different cops than you. The ones I have run across would not do such a thing unless some circumstances gave them a hell of a reason to be suspicious. Why are we all so afraid of the cops? Why make thier lives a living hell?

Again, you are just one data point, I highly doubt you have met enough cops in your life to provide a significant sample.

And it's not about being afraid of cops, it's about not wanting to hand them the power sift through my things, and about standing up for the rights entitled to me by law. It's not about making their lives hell either - if a cop wants to stop and search me without reasonable suspicion then I will refuse, as is my right. If the cop wants to take it further and make lots of hassle for himself that's not my fault - it's his fault, he is in the wrong.

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My point is, that I doubt the cop just pulled over a guy for going ten over the limet and saw him on the way to school or church and said "wow...I feel like flexing my authority for no other reason than I can". Something must have made the cop curious.

How does a cop automatically know the destination of a car on the highway? Talent like that shouldn't be wasted on traffic duty! Seriously though - "Something must have made the cop suspicious" - bullshit. Cops are as human, fallible and petty as the rest of us.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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I assume that cop trainees get some sort of training on how to diffuse tense situations. Maybe some interpersonal skills training or something? Surely, police academies don't just turn known loose-cannons out on the unsuspecting public, do they?

Training isn't the real thing.

You can't get killed in a training exercise.
And you can get failed for execessive force.

In the real world, both are false.

[billvon 3,073]

>They struggle and during the fight the guy gets loose and tries to run
>away...steps out into traffic and gets pulverized by a passing 18 wheeler.

That's true! But you're not quite thinking it through.

Let's say the cop uses the tazer and his friend (who he didn't see) jumps out from the back of the car, and a fight ensues. The cop and the man in the back are pushed into traffic; both die when they are hit by an 18-wheeler. Two dead. Now compare that to just shooting the guy in the head with his service weapon. One dead - and the cop still has his tazer available for the guy in the back.

Are you seeing the point yet? Or shall someone else make up an even more improbable scenario?

[jakee 1,563]

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visibly pregnant hysterical woman is just as likely (if not more likely) to shoot an officer that has just tased her husband.
She was hysterical, screaming, and for all anyone knows, she had access to a weapon. In that part of the state, it's the rule, not the exception.
What isn't an acceptable state of affairs is a hysterical woman getting out of her car after being ordered to stay in the vehicle, mm'kay?

And that is exactly my point - you live in a culture where past experience has caused you to believe that a pregnant middle class housewife is likely to be a cop killer simply because she stepped out of her car. That is fucked up six ways from sunday and if you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

I'll give you some context - in the UK, standard advice for being pulled over for speeding is to get out of the car, walk to the side of the road and meet the cop face to face - and no-one gets shot! In the US, so many cops get shot by the side of the road that getting out of your car without being asked on a routine stop will probably make the cop draw his gun on you.

Can you see where I'm coming from here?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

If this guy wasn't trained or had proved that he can do the job he should have been supervised...
I'd suggest that he looks elsewhere for his carreer.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Richards 0]

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"Something must have made the cop suspicious" - bullshit. Cops are as human, fallible and petty as the rest of us.

[Flacid_Monk 0]

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***It's real simple out there kids. If a cop stops you and orders you to do something, just do it.

Bullshit! Would you allow the police to search your car during a routine traffic stop? I've forced a cop to call in drug dogs and a good number of officers after a refusal to allow him to search my car. 3 to 4 hours later and most likely a lot of the taxpayers money being wasted, they fucktard gave me my ticket and i was out of there laughing my ass off at what a bunch of Barney Fifes they were. They cop told me that I could had saved them a lot of time had I only let him search my car. I told him to fuck himself, took my ticket and left. My lawyer got it reduced to a parking ticket. Sure, I could had let that bozo search my car but why?

Why be like that to them? Just because you can?

Didn't a lot of your grandparents die during WW11 for the freedoms you have today? why let the fucking filth pigs think they are god and be able to order you around for no reason but the fact they are pigs?

it seems that many Americans think that cops are almost the same as god!!! they think that a person must do what ever a cop tells you to do, fuck that....

some people think that you deserve everything a pig does to you if you don't follow every command a pig gives you... if the filth pig shoots you for having your hand in your pocket they think it's the victims fault, when the fuck did it mean you can be killed by a nervous pig for not obeying his every whim and command? people should take off their rose coloured glasses when thinking about the pigs. they're not gods who's every word must be obeyed or they have every right to kill you and it'll then be your fault you got killed not the cops...fuck that shit

running from the pigs does not mean it's ok for them to kill you

mouthing off to a pig does not mean he can shoot you

having your hand in your pocket and not taking it out if a pig tells you DOES NOT mean he can kill you

[DSE 5]

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And that is exactly my point - you live in a culture where past experience has caused you to believe that a pregnant middle class housewife is likely to be a cop killer simply because she stepped out of her car. That is fucked up six ways from sunday and if you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

Can you see where I'm coming from here?

Nope, i can't. Whether in the UK, USA, or Timbuktoo, a hysterical, screaming person jumping out of a car in an already escalated situation equals threat.

In those situations, *everyone* is a threat. That's how police are trained, even in the UK.
I don't believe it's an acceptable situation if she had been shot, but it is acceptable for the officer to deem her a potential threat.

[Flacid_Monk 0]

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And that is exactly my point - you live in a culture where past experience has caused you to believe that a pregnant middle class housewife is likely to be a cop killer simply because she stepped out of her car. That is fucked up six ways from sunday and if you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

Can you see where I'm coming from here?

Nope, i can't. Whether in the UK, USA, or Timbuktoo, a hysterical, screaming person jumping out of a car in an already escalated situation equals threat.

In those situations, *everyone* is a threat. That's how police are trained, even in the UK.
I don't believe it's an acceptable situation if she had been shot, but it is acceptable for the officer to deem her a potential threat.

Do you think we in the Uk are wrong to get out of our cars if we are stopped by the police? We don't have a gun coulture over here, we don't carry guns (99.99999% of the time) and the police are NOT expecting a stopped motorist to be carrying a gun (let alone a screaming pregnant woman) and see no harm in getting a car driver to step out of his car....infact, our police would find it very strange that a stopped motorist DIDN'T get out if their car

I'm glad I don't live in a society that has a gun coulture like yours, i'm glad i don't live in fear that anybody i come across in society might be carrying a gun, I'm glad the average bobby on the streets in this country doesn't need to carry a gun and doesn't expect to be faced with one

woman gets out of car...."they might have a gun" !!!!!!!!!

driver doesn't take my ticket....."they might have a gun" !!!!!!!

man keeps hand in pocket after I order him to remove it....."he might have a gun" !!!!!!!!!!!

what a crazy world you live in where the first thing that comes to mind when dealing with people who are annoyed, or if you're having an argument with them is that they might have a gun.... i feel sorry for a country that has so much paranoia in it

[shropshire 0]

You know we can't have hysterical, screaming people disturbing the tranquility of our road-side.. Bring Forth the Taser, lest they cause police men to faint.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kelpdiver 2]

there is much anger in this monk.

[jakee 1,563]

You missed out the middle bit - here, lets see it again

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I'll give you some context - in the UK, standard advice for being pulled over for speeding is to get out of the car, walk to the side of the road and meet the cop face to face - and no-one gets shot! In the US, so many cops get shot by the side of the road that getting out of your car without being asked on a routine stop will probably make the cop draw his gun on you.

So, USA, cops prefer to stand in traffic than let a motorist leave his vehicle because they're afraid of being shot. UK, cops and motorists have sensible conversations by the side of the road.

You're telling me you see nothing at all wrong with the States side of that equation? Nothing that could be improved upon in American society? No kind of indictment of any aspect of the USA's culture that cops have to go to so much trouble to avoid being shot by your average motorist?

Riiiiiiiiight.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DSE 5]

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there is much anger in this monk.

Amen
BTW, it's "Flaccid", and not "Flacid."

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So, USA, cops prefer to stand in traffic than let a motorist leave his vehicle because they're afraid of being shot.

Umm...no. Actually, people are asked to remain in their vehicles at roadside so that their safety isn't in jeopardy by the other cars on the road. Has nothing to do with whether the cop is afraid of being shot or not. In fact, remaining in the vehicle is potentially more dangerous for the police officer, because he can't see through the doors (and sometimes the windows) of the vehicle he's pulled over.
It's an insurance requirement of most if not all, municipalities.
It's also common sense.

[Flacid_Monk 0]

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You missed out the middle bit - here, lets see it again

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I'll give you some context - in the UK, standard advice for being pulled over for speeding is to get out of the car, walk to the side of the road and meet the cop face to face - and no-one gets shot! In the US, so many cops get shot by the side of the road that getting out of your car without being asked on a routine stop will probably make the cop draw his gun on you.

So, USA, cops prefer to stand in traffic than let a motorist leave his vehicle because they're afraid of being shot. UK, cops and motorists have sensible conversations by the side of the road.

You're telling me you see nothing at all wrong with the States side of that equation? Nothing that could be improved upon in American society? No kind of indictment of any aspect of the USA's culture that cops have to go to so much trouble to avoid being shot by your average motorist?

Riiiiiiiiight.

I really wish we could have a gun culture over here I really wish our police lived in fear that ANY person could be carrying a gun and might kill them

[Flacid_Monk 0]

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there is much anger in this monk.

Amen
BTW, it's "Flaccid", and not "Flacid."

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So, USA, cops prefer to stand in traffic than let a motorist leave his vehicle because they're afraid of being shot.

Umm...no. Actually, people are asked to remain in their vehicles at roadside so that their safety isn't in jeopardy by the other cars on the road. Has nothing to do with whether the cop is afraid of being shot or not. In fact, remaining in the vehicle is potentially more dangerous for the police officer, because he can't see through the doors (and sometimes the windows) of the vehicle he's pulled over.
It's an insurance requirement of most if not all, municipalities.
It's also common sense.

I don't know how we manage to get in and out of our cars every day then without getting run over .... are Americans THAT stupid that they can't get out of their cars without getting run over all the time? Do they REALLY need the police keeping them in their cars to stop roadside deaths?

[skycop 0]

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If they DO get training, how is it that we see so many of these types of situations happening all over the country?

There is a great deal of training, our states academy for city and county officers is 18 weeks, it may be expanded to 22. Additionally most field training programs after the academy are 12-16 additional weeks.
These situations are NOT happening all over the country, the advent of the 24 hour news cycle, You Tube, and other types of media make it appear that way. There are thousands of police and public contacts daily in this country many under very tense and dangerous circumstances, a very very small amount end up like this. Law enforcement works very hard to reduce that small amount.

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Most of you guys make a mockery out of the motto, "To Serve and to Protect."

Could'nt disagree with you more the vast, vast majority of LEO's are honest, hardworking people doing a thankless sometimes very dangerous job.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[ryoder 1,590]

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Let's not forget this is Utah We were once pulled over by Utah SP because his car was on the shoulder of the road, and we failed to move into the fast-lane to give him space.

I think it was because of your blue hair.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,563]

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Umm...no. Actually, people are asked to remain in their vehicles at roadside so that their safety isn't in jeopardy by the other cars on the road. Has nothing to do with whether the cop is afraid of being shot or not.

Right. So why is it that in every video of a traffic stop I've ever seen from the US where a guy gets out of his car... he gets drawn on? "Get out of the dangerous traffic or I'll shoot you" doesn't seem to have too much logic to it from where I'm sitting.

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It's also common sense.

Is it? You've just stated that (IYO) it is much more dangerous for the cop in at least two distinct ways if the motorist remains in their vehicle. What, then, is either common or sensible about requiring the motorist to remain inside?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[ryoder 1,590]

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Is it? You've just stated that (IYO) it is much more dangerous for the cop in at least two distinct ways if the motorist remains in their vehicle. What, then, is either common or sensible about requiring the motorist to remain inside?

Do a Google search for: "what to do" traffic stop

Every link I followed from the results said: Stay in the car.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,563]

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Is it? You've just stated that (IYO) it is much more dangerous for the cop in at least two distinct ways if the motorist remains in their vehicle. What, then, is either common or sensible about requiring the motorist to remain inside?

Do a Google search for: "what to do" traffic stop

Every link I followed from the results said: Stay in the car.

I did, and guess what, the very first result I looked at said you should stay in your vehicle because (guess what) officers are afraid of being shot. what d'ya think DSE? BTW, so did the next.


However, if we continue to take DSE's assertions at face value (recap - officers are in more danger, both from being shot and from traffic, when the motorist remains in the vehicle) then why on earth would it be 'common sense' for the motorist to stay in the vehicle with the cop standing in the road? Cop and motorist both out of the car and as far off the side of the road as possible would make far more sense in a lot of scenarios - if, of course, the cop wasn't afraid of being shot.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I think while it may be more dangerous for a cop to approach the car with the driver still in it, that disadvantage is outweighed by the disadvantage of divided attention when there is more than on person in the car. If the driver stays in the car the cop keeps everyone in sight.

[ryoder 1,590]

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I think while it may be more dangerous for a cop to approach the car with the driver still in it, that disadvantage is outweighed by the disadvantage of divided attention when there is more than on person in the car. If the driver stays in the car the cop keeps everyone in sight.

And the cop doesn't need to worry about getting into a wrestling match, or having his weapon taken away.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DSE 5]

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Is it? You've just stated that (IYO) it is much more dangerous for the cop in at least two distinct ways if the motorist remains in their vehicle. What, then, is either common or sensible about requiring the motorist to remain inside?

Do a Google search for: "what to do" traffic stop
Every link I followed from the results said: Stay in the car.

I did, and guess what, the very first result I looked at said you should stay in your vehicle because (guess what) officers are afraid of being shot. what d'ya think DSE? BTW, so did the next.


However, if we continue to take DSE's assertions at face value (recap - officers are in more danger, both from being shot and from traffic, when the motorist remains in the vehicle) then why on earth would it be 'common sense' for the motorist to stay in the vehicle with the cop standing in the road? Cop and motorist both out of the car and as far off the side of the road as possible would make far more sense in a lot of scenarios - if, of course, the cop wasn't afraid of being shot.

Duh.
Citizens see it one way, municipalities see it another.
A-Stay in car, because it's safer for driver.
B-Stay in car, because police officer wants you to.
C-Stay in car, because municipality insurance won't cover them if you get out of the car and are hit by another vehicle.
D-Stay in car, because it's simply sensible.

Officer is always exposed to traffic. Is it not more dangerous for him?
Officer can't see what's under your seat or in your glove box. Is it not more dangerous for him?
Officer doesn't know your state of mind. Is it not more dangerous for him?
Officer is trained to be wary of everyone on traffic stop. Most Americans are sensible enough to know how to behave in a traffic stop.

Are you suggesting the driver is less safe remaining in his vehicle, given the extremely close proximity to high speed traffic that we have in the USA? Think about the differences in your traffic and ours. Logic prevails; the driver is significantly more safe in their vehicle than out side of it. The officer is the one at greatest risk no matter how you slice it.
Either way, we're off track.
I don't think anyone supports the officer's actions, but I also dont' think anyone would accept the claimed superiority of police in the UK over police in the USA.

[jakee 1,563]

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I think while it may be more dangerous for a cop to approach the car with the driver still in it, that disadvantage is outweighed by the disadvantage of divided attention when there is more than on person in the car. If the driver stays in the car the cop keeps everyone in sight.

And the cop doesn't need to worry about getting into a wrestling match, or having his weapon taken away.

Excellent!

This brings me alllllllll the way back to my original point which was.... don't you think there is something broken with American society when a cop feels that anyone who steps out of the car during a routine stop will probably ty to kill him, and even a pregnant, middle class woman is "lucky she didn't get shot" for not staying in her car?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

How many times are you planning on making your point.
The US is a more violent place than the UK.
Move along.