I've changed my mind.... America has actually got it right

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>The cheaper than life is a little tongue in cheek. I don't think that it should be part of the equation - although with our current prison levels maybe space could be used as an excuse for CP


Death penalty for parking violations, as Steve Martin once said.....


>>>>>>>>>>>>No life not meaning life is not a reason for CP - just a reflection on a society that upholds human rights without making people accountable to their human responsibilities.


And when we fire up the death machine and it eats a few innocent people in its fury...... then what? Who's teh murderer now; the machine or the geniuses who advocated and built it?

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>The UK laws on self defence should be closer to those of the US. I dislike the pretense of using "reasonable force". A criminal breaking into my house, is fully awake, knows before hand whether he will fight or flee. As the victim I have no such prior knowledge. It should be legal to use lethal force to defend your home (inside the front door).


Not if they're turning and running. If a criminal breaks into your house and is heading toward you, I can't see a US court convicting a resident of anything.

>>>>>>>>>>>>With regards to the death penalty I am not so sure that it works as intended due to the complexity of our legal systems. Murder is defined by so many legal shades of grey that it becomes extremely difficult.

Only 1st degree murer is eligible, felony murder is the same as 1st. 1st degree murder, as a rule, must include the intentional killing of a person with premedictaion, felony murder is the death of a person while another person is in the act of committing a felony. An example would be a bank heist where in the getaway the driver kills someone.


>>>>>>>>Benefits of the death penalty are - Justice, deterant, cheaper than life.


Justice - even if an actually guilty person is executed, has justice been served? What is accomplished by killing him in return? Would there be less justice if he spent his natural life in prison?

Deterent - Really? Obviously the tyoe of deterrence to which you refer is not specific det, but general det. There is no statistical or other evidence I've read to support that. IOW's, where is there constant statistical evidence that as we execute more people, the murder rate drops? Do you really think people ponder whether it's worth it or not as the contemplate murdering someone? 1st degree murder is an inherently irrational proposition, so how can we assume there is intelligent reasoning?

cheaper than life imprisonment - only if life is cheap. We make mistakes now, so how can we expedite the process and expect no mistakes? Not a real element here.

>>>>>>>>>>>>The downsides are the inability to appeal if there is a wrongful conviction and from a religous point of view the removal of the ability to be "saved".

HUH? CP comes from the lovely bible, it's called Old Testament retribution. Removal of the ability to be saved? WTF? That has no place in the penal system or in government, period. As well, haven't people been "saved" (puke) in prison before? In fact, isn't that wher ethe lion's share of them get saved?

Here's some more detractors to CP:

- It doesn't allow closure for the families of the deceased, as they are continually reliving this via court dates, media, etc

- It costs easily twice or more as much as life imprisonment, esp if the condemned is >40

- It kills innocent people

- It has a racial component

- It has a class component

- Even if a person who is giulty is executed and everything is so-called correct, it depraves society in that the state has killed someone, regardless of correctness.

- Could you imagine sitting in the chair, gurney,etc and proclaiming your innocense while all onlookers sayi, "yea, they're all innocent, just ask them." As you fade, you wonder if your kids will be ok, etc.... Someone else is fucking your wife, working your job, living inyour house, driving your car, etc... What is so wonderful about it?

[Richards 0]

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Too bad the victim didn't have access to a firearm, she could've defended herself and family and saved the state a lot of funds at the same time.
Agree/disagree?

Agree wholeheartedly

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Richards 0]

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Taking his case completely in isolation - yes, he deserves to be executed. However, in the bigger picture I do not support the death penalty - so no, life imprisonment is good enough.

[jakee 1,563]

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Firstly we don't have gun ownership so that line of defence does not exist.

Yes we do.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DZJ 0]

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My only concern with the death penalty is the possibility of getting the wrong guy. If we could know for sure then I would have no problem with it and I wouldn't bend over backwards to make it comforting for him either.

Given the stakes, what would qualify as 'knowing for sure' in this context? A confession? A dozen eye witnesses? Being caught in the act?

[Richards 0]

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My only concern with the death penalty is the possibility of getting the wrong guy. If we could know for sure then I would have no problem with it and I wouldn't bend over backwards to make it comforting for him either.

Given the stakes, what would qualify as 'knowing for sure' in this context? A confession? A dozen eye witnesses? Being caught in the act?

I would guess that being caught in the act might be a good qualifier. I see your point that you cannot aver be sure which is why I said "if" we could know for sure.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.