billvon 3,078 #1 December 1, 2007 Some good news for the environment, gas prices and our oil dependence: =================== Senate passes fuel economy measure Sets 35 m.p.g. average by 2020 for all vehicles By John Donnelly, Globe Staff June 22, 2007 WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted yesterday to substantially increase fuel economy standards for automobiles for the first time since 1975 as it passed a wide-ranging energy bill that also encourages development of alternative fuels and efficiency in new appliances. The legislation also saves oil companies from a $29 billion tax bill. The energy legislation, which passed in a 65-to-27 vote a few minutes before midnight, came together quickly after a bipartisan coalition of senators forged an agreement on the fuel economy standards, which would require Detroit automakers to make their entire lines of new passenger cars, trucks, and sport utility vehicles reach an average 35 miles per gallon on the highway by 2020. ==================== I hope the legislation makes it. We've needed this desperately for some time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2 December 1, 2007 Quote Some good news for the environment, gas prices and our oil dependence: =================== Senate passes fuel economy measure Sets 35 m.p.g. average by 2020 for all vehicles By John Donnelly, Globe Staff June 22, 2007 WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted yesterday to substantially increase fuel economy standards for automobiles for the first time since 1975 as it passed a wide-ranging energy bill that also encourages development of alternative fuels and efficiency in new appliances. The legislation also saves oil companies from a $29 billion tax bill. The energy legislation, which passed in a 65-to-27 vote a few minutes before midnight, came together quickly after a bipartisan coalition of senators forged an agreement on the fuel economy standards, which would require Detroit automakers to make their entire lines of new passenger cars, trucks, and sport utility vehicles reach an average 35 miles per gallon on the highway by 2020. ==================== I hope the legislation makes it. We've needed this desperately for some time. Ya more alarmist eco morality of the tree huggers pushed through law on the rest of us for no reason. More stupid shit"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #3 December 1, 2007 >More stupid shit Knew you'd think so! But I think the potential for cheaper gas prices will get support no matter what sort of shrill rhetoric the denier sites throw up about this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #4 December 1, 2007 Will they hold foreign auto makers to the same standards, or will they tax the shit out of foreign cars that don't meet the standards?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #5 December 1, 2007 Quote>More stupid shit Knew you'd think so! But I think the potential for cheaper gas prices will get support no matter what sort of shrill rhetoric the denier sites throw up about this. Cheaper gas prices would come from allowing us to drill for our own resources now wouldn't they? But you and yours cant allow that Cheaper gas would come from newer and more refineries. Cant have that either If I am a denier you sir are a eco eletist. Your way or the highway.. The arogance of those following your position is sickening"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #6 December 1, 2007 QuoteWill they hold foreign auto makers to the same standards, or will they tax the shit out of foreign cars that don't meet the standards? Fpreign car makers (the Japanese in particular) have been making cars that way exceed that mileage for a long time. I doubt they'll have too much trouble.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #7 December 2, 2007 A couple things I don't understand. Detroit, has had this technology since the seventies. Fuel prices are the highest they have ever been in this country yet, speed limits in some parts of the country have been raised to 80mph. I had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph!Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #8 December 2, 2007 If the US Senate passed it, then it's obviously WAAAAY past due. Not like our government is on the cutting edge of...well, much of anything. Good on them. And good for us. Hope it passes.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #9 December 2, 2007 Quote A couple things I don't understand. Detroit, has had this technology since the seventies. Fuel prices are the highest they have ever been in this country yet, speed limits in some parts of the country have been raised to 80mph. I had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph!Chuck The biggest item to get better milage is weight. Lower it you get better gas milage and you also kill more people"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #10 December 2, 2007 All this shit is why I want to move to NYC after school, so I won't need to own a car. I fucking hate driving.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #11 December 2, 2007 > Will they hold foreign auto makers to the same standards . . . Same standards, just as now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #12 December 2, 2007 >Cheaper gas prices would come from allowing us to drill for our own >resources now wouldn't they? But you and yours cant allow that We've been doing that since 1880, when Edwin Drake drilled the first oil well in the US. We hit the peak in 1970 and our output has been declining ever since. It will decline no matter what we do. Reducing demand is the only answer that works. >Cheaper gas would come from newer and more refineries. Cant have that >either. There have been several billion-dollar expansions of current refineries since 2005, and we will have increased capacity by around 10% within three years. Oil companies would apparently prefer to expand older refineries than to build new ones. Why don't you take it up with them? >Your way or the highway.. Under the new laws you can still drive whatever you want. So it's sorta your way _on_ the highway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joedirt 0 #13 December 2, 2007 Poor Detroit No end in sight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #14 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote A couple things I don't understand. Detroit, has had this technology since the seventies. Fuel prices are the highest they have ever been in this country yet, speed limits in some parts of the country have been raised to 80mph. I had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph!Chuck The biggest item to get better milage is weight. Lower it you get better gas milage and you also kill more people Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #15 December 2, 2007 Quote Poor Detroit No end in sight They have decades of tradition unimpeded by innovation, efficiency, or long-term viable business practices. Even the dinosaurs died off eventually...Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #16 December 2, 2007 The biggest item to get better milage is weight. Lower it you get better gas milage and you also kill more people Well, I think our cars weigh less now than they did in the 70's. They get better gas mileage. I wonder if people survive crashes better now than then???? Somehow I bet our safety record's better today than then. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #17 December 2, 2007 >Well, I think our cars weigh less now than they did in the 70's. They >get better gas mileage. I wonder if people survive crashes better now than >then? They definitely have. In 1968, the Vehicle Safety Act was passed over the protests of car manufacturers, who claimed (just as they do today) that such regulations would put them out of business. The act required things like firewalls, non-rigid steering columns etc. There's a metric called Head Injury Criteria (HIC) that measures brain deceleration rates during a crash; modern dummies use sensors that measure this as the primary means of determining the likelihood of brain injuries. Pre-1968 cars had HIC's of around 2000. Cars of the 1970's had HIC's of around 800 (due to Vehicle Safety Act improvements) and modern cars are around 300. On average, modern cars weigh about half, and are around ten times safer, than cars were just before 1970. I was driving home yesterday in the rain (first rain this year) and saw over a dozen accidents. There were some really horrific ones - cars crushed up to their rear seats. Yet in most cases there were people sitting in those cars, airbags deflated all around them, talking on their cellphones to whoever (police or insurance company I am guessing.) The heavier cars - the SUV's - didn't fare so well. Those were the ones on their sides or on their roofs with an ambulance alongside. There's a lot that goes into determining what makes a car safe and what doesn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #18 December 2, 2007 Quote The biggest item to get better milage is weight. Lower it you get better gas milage and you also kill more people... Are you suggesting that car mass is the only contributor towards the forces experienced by a passenger in a car accident? Rhetorical question: Is it possible to build lightweight vehicles that can absorb a tremendous amount of energy from impact while protecting the occupants? (Look at F1 cars before you say no, unless you think 1300lbs is heavy.) Large vehicles don't necessarily represent safety. They do, however, represent the general US population's demand for luxury, convenience, and penile augmentation. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #19 December 2, 2007 QuoteI had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph! Hell I had a VW Bunny while I was in college in the 80's.. that got 48 MPG.. it was the 1600 cc diesel and it ran and ran and ran.. it finally died at 342,000 miles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #20 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote A couple things I don't understand. Detroit, has had this technology since the seventies. Fuel prices are the highest they have ever been in this country yet, speed limits in some parts of the country have been raised to 80mph. I had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph!Chuck The biggest item to get better milage is weight. Lower it you get better gas milage and you also kill more people Good idea. Why not have govt. mandated weight loss for fat assed drivers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #21 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote I had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph! Hell I had a VW Bunny while I was in college in the 80's.. that got 48 MPG.. it was the 1600 cc diesel and it ran and ran and ran.. it finally died at 342,000 miles. I sold mine to my younger cousin. On the way home from the body shop, after getting a new paint job, she got rear-ended by a cement truck on I-8. She came out of it just fine but the bug was totaled. Diesels did much better on fuel mileage, as you pointed out. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #22 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote A couple things I don't understand. Detroit, has had this technology since the seventies. Fuel prices are the highest they have ever been in this country yet, speed limits in some parts of the country have been raised to 80mph. I had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph!Chuck The biggest item to get better milage is weight. Lower it you get better gas milage and you also kill more people Chuck It's true. With the better cars, came stricter emissions and higher safety standards, both of which increased weight. Mileage suffered as a result. My dad had an old Honda CVCC which got great mileage too, but by today's standards, the Ralph Naders of the world would be calling for blood...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #23 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote A couple things I don't understand. Detroit, has had this technology since the seventies. Fuel prices are the highest they have ever been in this country yet, speed limits in some parts of the country have been raised to 80mph. I had a 1961 'beetle' that got 31mph!Chuck The biggest item to get better milage is weight. Lower it you get better gas milage and you also kill more people Good idea. Why not have govt. mandated weight loss for fat assed drivers. Great idea!They've chopped tons of weight since the 'tanks' of the 50's - 60's! Now, we have more fat-assed drivers!Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #24 December 2, 2007 >With the better cars, came stricter emissions and higher safety >standards, both of which increased weight. The safest modern cars are considerably lighter than your average pre-1970 cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joedirt 0 #25 December 2, 2007 A dozen accidents because rain? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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