You just can't win with enviromentalist!

[Rookie120 0]

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By Robert Elder

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Wednesday, December 05, 2007

The famed King Ranch and a coalition of environmental groups sued Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson in federal court Tuesday, seeking to require extensive environmental review and public comment on two planned wind power projects along the Gulf Coast in Kenedy County.

The coalition, the Coastal Habitat Alliance, also sued over the wind project in state District Court in Travis County. That suit claims that the state's Public Utility Commission illegally denied the alliance's request to participate in permit hearings for the wind project's transmission line.

The lawsuits threaten to delay or stop the two massive wind projects, which could place more than 600 turbines on 60,000 acres near Laguna Madre, south of Corpus Christi. Part of the wind projects would place about 250 turbines just east of a portion of the sprawling King Ranch.

The federal suit, filed in U.S. Western District Court in Austin, said the turbines could kill untold numbers of migratory birds and damage the bay. It seeks to overturn the decision by the Texas General Land office, which Patterson heads, to allow the projects to be built without environmental review or input from the public. The suit contends that the Federal Coastal Zone Management Act of 1972 and the Texas Coastal Management Program require a permit process for any energy generation facility on the coast, including wind farms.

Besides King Ranch Inc., the coastal alliance includes four Gulf Coast-area Aubudon societies and several local environmental organizations.

The land office said it doesn't comment on pending litigation.

The federal suit also names the wind project developers: PPM Energy Inc., a Portland, Ore.-based subsidiary of Spanish utility Iberdrola SA; and Australian investment firm Babcock & Brown Ltd. PPM officials did not return a call for comment; Babcock & Brown could not be reached for comment.

Houston lawyer Jim Blackburn, the coastal alliance's lead lawyer, said the federal coastal management act "mandates that Texas must conduct environmental assessments of all energy projects, including wind, in order to receive federal money."

King Ranch backed unsuccessful legislation earlier this year that would have required the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality to establish a permit process to take into account the environmental consequences of wind turbines.

You just cannot win with these people. They scream for clean energy. You try to give it and they shut you down. What exactly do they suggest now?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[n23x 0]

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You just cannot win with these people. They scream for clean energy. You try to give it and they shut you down. What exactly do they suggest now?

This is like saying, "All conservatives are full blown closet gay and will try to have bathroom sex while doing the 'fred astaire' in the stall."

Don't mistake a small subset's opinions for the whole group.

Birds are dumb anyways.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[NewGuy2005 53]

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What exactly do they suggest now?

That we all kill ourselves.

[Rookie120 0]

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Don't mistake a small subset's opinions for the whole group.

It is more than just a small group. I have read a bunch of articles of proposed solar, and wind farms that enviromental groups take to court. My question is why? Or is it a big NIMBY that just doesnt want one near them?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[quade 4]

Do not confuse a real environmental group with a bunch of rich guys trying to protect their property values.

Do a little bit more research into who is backing this and get back to me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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Or is it a big NIMBY that just doesnt want one near them?

Yes.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,991]

>I have read a bunch of articles of proposed solar, and wind farms
>that enviromental groups take to court. My question is why?

Because they don't want to look at them. NIMBYism is alive and well, whether it's a coal-supporting conservative against a new coal fired power plant in his district or a homeowner/environmentalist against a new windmill.

[ryoder 1,590]

If we are going to listen to "it's harmful to birds" to stop wind power, then we better lower the maximum speed limit to 20 mph for all highway and air traffic.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Rookie120 0]

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Do a little bit more research into who is backing this and get back to me.

You seem to know more than we do so enlighten us a little bit with your knowledge.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Rookie120 0]

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If we are going to listen to "it's harmful to birds" to stop wind power, then we better lower the maximum speed limit to 20 mph for all highway and air traffic.

Haven't smacked a bird in a while. Got a cat about a week ago. Poor little bastard darted out of a ditch at night. I didnt have a chance to try to miss it.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[billvon 2,991]

> If we are going to listen to "it's harmful to birds" to stop wind power,
>then we better lower the maximum speed limit to 20 mph for all highway
>and air traffic.

Never mind that! We better take down all the buildings, radio and cellphone towers, and powerlines in the US!

[masterrig 1]

How much grazing land will that ranch lose to this project? Cattle need more grazing land than you'd think. You like beef, don't you? It's their land and if they don't want it, they should have the choice. On the other hand, out here in West Texas, 'wind farms' are popping-up like Iowa corn in springtime.


Chuck

[lawrocket 3]

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Do not confuse a real environmental group with a bunch of rich guys trying to protect their property values.

Do a little bit more research into who is backing this and get back to me.

Here's the membership:
American Bird Conservancy
Armstrong Ranch
Audubon Outdoor Club of Corpus Christi
Coastal Bend Audubon Society
Frontera Audubon Society
Galveston Bay Conservation Preservation Association
Houston Audubon Society
King Ranch
Lower Laguna Madre Foundation Matagora Bay Foundation
Travis Audubon Society

Apparently, they are legitimate conservationists.

Landowners are oftenbe happy to lease a portion of their land for uses like this. It's money for them.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,991]

> How much grazing land will that ranch lose to this project?

Generally about 50' by 50' per turbine minumum. Figure 1/20 of an acre per windmill. If you add up all the access roads, power poles, storage etc it's still generally less than an acre.

In many cases, farmers are putting these things on their land because they can still farm under them. Gets them additional income from their land.

[Rookie120 0]

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How much grazing land will that ranch lose to this project?

The base of the windmill doesnt take up 20 acres. They are small. I dont think your losing that much if anything. As for the King Ranch, from the article,

The lawsuits threaten to delay or stop the two massive wind projects, which could place more than 600 turbines on 60,000 acres near Laguna Madre, south of Corpus Christi. Part of the wind projects would place about 250 turbines just east of a portion of the sprawling King Ranch.

***

So why is the ranch aganst this?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[quade 4]

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Apparently, they are legitimate conservationists.

Landowners are oftenbe happy to lease a portion of their land for uses like this. It's money for them.

And it makes certain things "look" good.

Here are some words to google up;

"King Ranch" "Humble Oil" Exxon

Here's a start; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Ranch

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Rookie120 0]

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"King Ranch" "Humble Oil" Exxon

You beat me to it! I was just gonna ask how many oil wells on on that ranch.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kelpdiver 2]

objections to windmills aren't just from nimbys. There have long been complaints about the bird kills for the windills along I-580 at the Altamont Pass. In response the smaller windmills have been replaced by fewer, big ones.

[masterrig 1]

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How much grazing land will that ranch lose to this project?

The base of the windmill doesnt take up 20 acres. They are small. I dont think your losing that much if anything. As for the King Ranch, from the article,

The lawsuits threaten to delay or stop the two massive wind projects, which could place more than 600 turbines on 60,000 acres near Laguna Madre, south of Corpus Christi. Part of the wind projects would place about 250 turbines just east of a portion of the sprawling King Ranch.

***

So why is the ranch aganst this?

The King Ranch, is a huge agri business/corporation. I guess, you'd have to ask them that question. I sure don't have the answer.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Apparently, they are legitimate conservationists.

Landowners are oftenbe happy to lease a portion of their land for uses like this. It's money for them.

And it makes certain things "look" good.

Here are some words to google up;

"King Ranch" "Humble Oil" Exxon

Here's a start; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Ranch

Which reminds me of a cartoon I saw in our local paper back during the 'oil boom' of the 70' & 80's.
Two old cowboys were looking out over some pasture land which was just loaded with working pump-jacks. The one cowboy said to the other: 'If, I'd known they were going to put all that junk out there... I'da never sold it to 'em!'


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Oh, o.k. All I've seen are the huge wind turbines that come in sections on several 18-wheeler flat-bed trailers for one wind turbine. I wasn't aware they came smaller.


Chuck

[billvon 2,991]

>All I've seen are the huge wind turbines that come in sections on
>several 18-wheeler flat-bed trailers for one wind turbine.

That's what these are. They just have a small 'footprint.' They are huge in the air, but the area taken up on the ranch is small. See below for some pictures.

[rushmc 23]

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>All I've seen are the huge wind turbines that come in sections on
>several 18-wheeler flat-bed trailers for one wind turbine.

That's what these are. They just have a small 'footprint.' They are huge in the air, but the area taken up on the ranch is small. See below for some pictures.

These things are popping up all over the place here in Iowa. The land owners (in some cases) are calling in to offer thier land for consideration.

There is a stretch of them build up in the NW corner that run North West to South East for about 34 miles. ( I cant remember how many of them now) Anyway, the transmission company that is buying the transmission infrastructure from the company I work for wants to be able use the wind farms as best they can. Kind of cool. I like seeing them, But that is just me maybe

Factories to build them are in Cedar Rapids Iowan and a blade plant is going in Newton Iowa where the Matag plant used to be

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

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>All I've seen are the huge wind turbines that come in sections on
>several 18-wheeler flat-bed trailers for one wind turbine.

That's what these are. They just have a small 'footprint.' They are huge in the air, but the area taken up on the ranch is small. See below for some pictures.

Wouldn't you like to have a bunch of those in your yard?


Chuck

[billvon 2,991]

>Wouldn't you like to have a bunch of those in your yard?

I'd be happy with one!