kallend 2,027 #51 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuote This guy was just another suicidal asshole who was already forbidden by law to own guns due to a previous felony conviction, but got one anyway by stealing it. No gun law will stop such a person. Of course, the ready availability of his step-father's gun for him to steal had nothing to do with it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #52 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote This guy was just another suicidal asshole who was already forbidden by law to own guns due to a previous felony conviction, but got one anyway by stealing it. No gun law will stop such a person. Of course, the ready availability of his step-father's gun for him to steal had nothing to do with it. So pass another law! That should do it."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #53 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote This guy was just another suicidal asshole who was already forbidden by law to own guns due to a previous felony conviction, but got one anyway by stealing it. No gun law will stop such a person. Of course, the ready availability of his step-father's gun for him to steal had nothing to do with it. What is your solution?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #54 December 7, 2007 Quote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #55 December 7, 2007 QuoteThe press also tends to choose not to mention when guns are used to end the attack, which is unfortunate. Not only do they (to other fucked up losers) seem to glorify the shooter, but they don't mention that often they are stopped by the same tool, which might discourage some of them. Not in this case. He offed himself with no outside intervention. Considering this was his goal from the very start, I doubt much could have been done to prevent this from happening in the first place and I also doubt many CCW holders would have been able to slow him down very much considering his rate of fire. This all happened very quickly and was over before most people even knew precisely where he was.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #56 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #57 December 7, 2007 "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. First, I think I will regret this but I will give it one shot. I assume from this post you believe you have the problem labled. ( and I may be mistaken) but.... Are you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? (The problem that you say needs to be recognized first, before it can be fixed)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #58 December 7, 2007 QuoteAre you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? I dunno if it's the same problem I see and you didn't ask me but let me chime in . . . No guns should be allowed in the residence of a known mentally disturbed person. We currently have laws with respect to the mentally disturbed owning guns, but what about those they live with?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #59 December 7, 2007 Quoteyou cannot judge any society by its lunatics. they are by definition, outside of society. Actually the number, type and manner of deviations from norms are of importance to Cultural Anthropologists in learning a culture.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #60 December 7, 2007 BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS....and KNIFES and KNIFES and and .....HAIRBRUSHES, HAIRBRUSHES BAN HAIRBRUSHES!!!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #61 December 7, 2007 Quote Quote Are you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? I dunno if it's the same problem I see and you didn't ask me but let me chime in . . . No guns should be allowed in the residence of a known mentally disturbed person. We currently have laws with respect to the mentally disturbed owning guns, but what about those they live with? Problems here - One of the (many) issues with the Virginia Tech shooting was what is "mentally disturbed" and did depression count? And who do the psychs report it to? And what rights do the patients have for confidentiality? Will that limit access to mental health? AND... what rights do those living with that patient have? Are they allowed to call the doc/psych and ask "Is he/she crazy? Do I need to move my firearms?" What HIPPA violations does that cause? As our society gets bigger and bigger, the raw numbers of those that are more unstable rise. (the percentages may not change, or if they do, that's a different debate) As those numbers increase, then there is a higher volume of events like this. Also... If this person truly had a felony conviction, then the possession of that rifle in and of itself, was illegal. But, you need to understand that we are NOT talking about the law abiding members of the society here. So just to clarify to all the non US pissers and moaners - this person was OUTSIDE the "normal" American society standards. We might be "Seppo" in your mind, and you might be looking at him as a representation of "Typical American Response" - but that would be a highly ignorant opinion. (not referring to you Skyrad... you just happened to post above me) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #62 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #63 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it. I asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? (I really do not think you will come out of a closet and let anybody see any real views you have but, I am asking honestly)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #64 December 7, 2007 QuoteI asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? I think he is trying to spark a bit of a larger debate than what specifically he thinks the problem may or may not be. The question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #65 December 7, 2007 QuoteThe question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. There is a problem. But I don't believe the answer is banning the legal ownership of firearms. It might be the "easy" answer. ("Just make them all illegal" - right? Easy.) Wrong. 1. Who pays for the money invested into said firearms? Gov't kicks in $100 per gun? One of my scopes (just the glass) is worth 6k. Nope, a cute lil benjamin is NOT going to make me happy. And NO, I'm not going to surrender my property at such a devalued rate. 2. Such a program could encourage theft under a privateer type thought process - "break into this house and get his/her firearms, then turn them over to the gov't, collect my money and feel like I did a 'good thing' for society." 3. Do you REALLY think it's reasonable to try to collect ALL firearms in the US (even those illegally owned)?! confiscation of legally owned property will not fix this problem. And the real problem is not "fixable." How do you make crazy types not so crazy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #66 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote a single shot from a concealed weapons holder could have stopped this rampage. too bad they followed the law and didn't bring weapons into the mall. Absolutely. I believe another mall shooting earlier this year was stopped by exactly that (an off-duty police officer who carried his weapon into the mall, despite the fact that it was posted as being "gun-free"). When will people realize that bullets are far more effective at stopping violent criminals than "No-Gun" signs? and what would be even more effective would be for people to not be able to get hold of guns in the first place...... Where is this dream-world/fantasy land that you live in? Other things that would be good: Drunk drivers should not be able to get ahold of car keys. Crack heads should not be able to get ahold of crack. Rapists should not be able to get ahold of victims. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once people accept that, we will take a big step in the direction of making these incidents a bit more rare. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #67 December 7, 2007 QuoteWhen will people realize that bullets are far more effective at stopping violent criminals than "No-Gun" signs? I think one could take a "No-Gun" sign and sneak up and wack him on the back of the head. That would be very effective. A law should be passed requiring No-Gun signs to be easily detachable, at least 5 pounds, and mounted on a 4 foot pole with tacky grip texture at the bottom. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #68 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? I think he is trying to spark a bit of a larger debate than what specifically he thinks the problem may or may not be. The question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. Maybe but my question still remains. He thinks HE KNOWS what the problem is so he can spit it out. I do not think he will cause then he would have to defend his position. For the most part on the site, I have never seen him take a position. He only argues what others posts. Not to forthcoming a tactic"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #69 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it. I asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? (I really do not think you will come out of a closet and let anybody see any real views you have but, I am asking honestly) The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #70 December 7, 2007 The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem. Alright, this is a start. Query, can you think of anyong on this site who do you think would not agree with your assertion? I cant think of anyone......."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #71 December 7, 2007 Quote The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem. Alright, this is a start. Query, can you think of anyong on this site who do you think would not agree with your assertion? I cant think of anyone....... Anyone who has ever written anything to the effect of "they will always get guns so we needn't do anything" is in denial.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #52 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote This guy was just another suicidal asshole who was already forbidden by law to own guns due to a previous felony conviction, but got one anyway by stealing it. No gun law will stop such a person. Of course, the ready availability of his step-father's gun for him to steal had nothing to do with it. So pass another law! That should do it."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #53 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote This guy was just another suicidal asshole who was already forbidden by law to own guns due to a previous felony conviction, but got one anyway by stealing it. No gun law will stop such a person. Of course, the ready availability of his step-father's gun for him to steal had nothing to do with it. What is your solution?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #54 December 7, 2007 Quote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #55 December 7, 2007 QuoteThe press also tends to choose not to mention when guns are used to end the attack, which is unfortunate. Not only do they (to other fucked up losers) seem to glorify the shooter, but they don't mention that often they are stopped by the same tool, which might discourage some of them. Not in this case. He offed himself with no outside intervention. Considering this was his goal from the very start, I doubt much could have been done to prevent this from happening in the first place and I also doubt many CCW holders would have been able to slow him down very much considering his rate of fire. This all happened very quickly and was over before most people even knew precisely where he was.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #56 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #57 December 7, 2007 "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. First, I think I will regret this but I will give it one shot. I assume from this post you believe you have the problem labled. ( and I may be mistaken) but.... Are you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? (The problem that you say needs to be recognized first, before it can be fixed)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #58 December 7, 2007 QuoteAre you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? I dunno if it's the same problem I see and you didn't ask me but let me chime in . . . No guns should be allowed in the residence of a known mentally disturbed person. We currently have laws with respect to the mentally disturbed owning guns, but what about those they live with?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #59 December 7, 2007 Quoteyou cannot judge any society by its lunatics. they are by definition, outside of society. Actually the number, type and manner of deviations from norms are of importance to Cultural Anthropologists in learning a culture.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #60 December 7, 2007 BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS....and KNIFES and KNIFES and and .....HAIRBRUSHES, HAIRBRUSHES BAN HAIRBRUSHES!!!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #61 December 7, 2007 Quote Quote Are you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? I dunno if it's the same problem I see and you didn't ask me but let me chime in . . . No guns should be allowed in the residence of a known mentally disturbed person. We currently have laws with respect to the mentally disturbed owning guns, but what about those they live with? Problems here - One of the (many) issues with the Virginia Tech shooting was what is "mentally disturbed" and did depression count? And who do the psychs report it to? And what rights do the patients have for confidentiality? Will that limit access to mental health? AND... what rights do those living with that patient have? Are they allowed to call the doc/psych and ask "Is he/she crazy? Do I need to move my firearms?" What HIPPA violations does that cause? As our society gets bigger and bigger, the raw numbers of those that are more unstable rise. (the percentages may not change, or if they do, that's a different debate) As those numbers increase, then there is a higher volume of events like this. Also... If this person truly had a felony conviction, then the possession of that rifle in and of itself, was illegal. But, you need to understand that we are NOT talking about the law abiding members of the society here. So just to clarify to all the non US pissers and moaners - this person was OUTSIDE the "normal" American society standards. We might be "Seppo" in your mind, and you might be looking at him as a representation of "Typical American Response" - but that would be a highly ignorant opinion. (not referring to you Skyrad... you just happened to post above me) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #62 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #63 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it. I asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? (I really do not think you will come out of a closet and let anybody see any real views you have but, I am asking honestly)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #64 December 7, 2007 QuoteI asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? I think he is trying to spark a bit of a larger debate than what specifically he thinks the problem may or may not be. The question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #65 December 7, 2007 QuoteThe question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. There is a problem. But I don't believe the answer is banning the legal ownership of firearms. It might be the "easy" answer. ("Just make them all illegal" - right? Easy.) Wrong. 1. Who pays for the money invested into said firearms? Gov't kicks in $100 per gun? One of my scopes (just the glass) is worth 6k. Nope, a cute lil benjamin is NOT going to make me happy. And NO, I'm not going to surrender my property at such a devalued rate. 2. Such a program could encourage theft under a privateer type thought process - "break into this house and get his/her firearms, then turn them over to the gov't, collect my money and feel like I did a 'good thing' for society." 3. Do you REALLY think it's reasonable to try to collect ALL firearms in the US (even those illegally owned)?! confiscation of legally owned property will not fix this problem. And the real problem is not "fixable." How do you make crazy types not so crazy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #66 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote a single shot from a concealed weapons holder could have stopped this rampage. too bad they followed the law and didn't bring weapons into the mall. Absolutely. I believe another mall shooting earlier this year was stopped by exactly that (an off-duty police officer who carried his weapon into the mall, despite the fact that it was posted as being "gun-free"). When will people realize that bullets are far more effective at stopping violent criminals than "No-Gun" signs? and what would be even more effective would be for people to not be able to get hold of guns in the first place...... Where is this dream-world/fantasy land that you live in? Other things that would be good: Drunk drivers should not be able to get ahold of car keys. Crack heads should not be able to get ahold of crack. Rapists should not be able to get ahold of victims. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once people accept that, we will take a big step in the direction of making these incidents a bit more rare. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #67 December 7, 2007 QuoteWhen will people realize that bullets are far more effective at stopping violent criminals than "No-Gun" signs? I think one could take a "No-Gun" sign and sneak up and wack him on the back of the head. That would be very effective. A law should be passed requiring No-Gun signs to be easily detachable, at least 5 pounds, and mounted on a 4 foot pole with tacky grip texture at the bottom. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #68 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? I think he is trying to spark a bit of a larger debate than what specifically he thinks the problem may or may not be. The question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. Maybe but my question still remains. He thinks HE KNOWS what the problem is so he can spit it out. I do not think he will cause then he would have to defend his position. For the most part on the site, I have never seen him take a position. He only argues what others posts. Not to forthcoming a tactic"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #69 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it. I asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? (I really do not think you will come out of a closet and let anybody see any real views you have but, I am asking honestly) The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #70 December 7, 2007 The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem. Alright, this is a start. Query, can you think of anyong on this site who do you think would not agree with your assertion? I cant think of anyone......."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #53 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote This guy was just another suicidal asshole who was already forbidden by law to own guns due to a previous felony conviction, but got one anyway by stealing it. No gun law will stop such a person. Of course, the ready availability of his step-father's gun for him to steal had nothing to do with it. What is your solution?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #54 December 7, 2007 Quote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #55 December 7, 2007 QuoteThe press also tends to choose not to mention when guns are used to end the attack, which is unfortunate. Not only do they (to other fucked up losers) seem to glorify the shooter, but they don't mention that often they are stopped by the same tool, which might discourage some of them. Not in this case. He offed himself with no outside intervention. Considering this was his goal from the very start, I doubt much could have been done to prevent this from happening in the first place and I also doubt many CCW holders would have been able to slow him down very much considering his rate of fire. This all happened very quickly and was over before most people even knew precisely where he was.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #56 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #57 December 7, 2007 "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. First, I think I will regret this but I will give it one shot. I assume from this post you believe you have the problem labled. ( and I may be mistaken) but.... Are you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? (The problem that you say needs to be recognized first, before it can be fixed)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #54 December 7, 2007 Quote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #55 December 7, 2007 QuoteThe press also tends to choose not to mention when guns are used to end the attack, which is unfortunate. Not only do they (to other fucked up losers) seem to glorify the shooter, but they don't mention that often they are stopped by the same tool, which might discourage some of them. Not in this case. He offed himself with no outside intervention. Considering this was his goal from the very start, I doubt much could have been done to prevent this from happening in the first place and I also doubt many CCW holders would have been able to slow him down very much considering his rate of fire. This all happened very quickly and was over before most people even knew precisely where he was.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #56 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #57 December 7, 2007 "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. First, I think I will regret this but I will give it one shot. I assume from this post you believe you have the problem labled. ( and I may be mistaken) but.... Are you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? (The problem that you say needs to be recognized first, before it can be fixed)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #58 December 7, 2007 QuoteAre you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? I dunno if it's the same problem I see and you didn't ask me but let me chime in . . . No guns should be allowed in the residence of a known mentally disturbed person. We currently have laws with respect to the mentally disturbed owning guns, but what about those they live with?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #59 December 7, 2007 Quoteyou cannot judge any society by its lunatics. they are by definition, outside of society. Actually the number, type and manner of deviations from norms are of importance to Cultural Anthropologists in learning a culture.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #60 December 7, 2007 BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS....and KNIFES and KNIFES and and .....HAIRBRUSHES, HAIRBRUSHES BAN HAIRBRUSHES!!!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #61 December 7, 2007 Quote Quote Are you willing to share with us what you think the problem is? I dunno if it's the same problem I see and you didn't ask me but let me chime in . . . No guns should be allowed in the residence of a known mentally disturbed person. We currently have laws with respect to the mentally disturbed owning guns, but what about those they live with? Problems here - One of the (many) issues with the Virginia Tech shooting was what is "mentally disturbed" and did depression count? And who do the psychs report it to? And what rights do the patients have for confidentiality? Will that limit access to mental health? AND... what rights do those living with that patient have? Are they allowed to call the doc/psych and ask "Is he/she crazy? Do I need to move my firearms?" What HIPPA violations does that cause? As our society gets bigger and bigger, the raw numbers of those that are more unstable rise. (the percentages may not change, or if they do, that's a different debate) As those numbers increase, then there is a higher volume of events like this. Also... If this person truly had a felony conviction, then the possession of that rifle in and of itself, was illegal. But, you need to understand that we are NOT talking about the law abiding members of the society here. So just to clarify to all the non US pissers and moaners - this person was OUTSIDE the "normal" American society standards. We might be "Seppo" in your mind, and you might be looking at him as a representation of "Typical American Response" - but that would be a highly ignorant opinion. (not referring to you Skyrad... you just happened to post above me) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #62 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #63 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it. I asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? (I really do not think you will come out of a closet and let anybody see any real views you have but, I am asking honestly)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #64 December 7, 2007 QuoteI asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? I think he is trying to spark a bit of a larger debate than what specifically he thinks the problem may or may not be. The question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #65 December 7, 2007 QuoteThe question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. There is a problem. But I don't believe the answer is banning the legal ownership of firearms. It might be the "easy" answer. ("Just make them all illegal" - right? Easy.) Wrong. 1. Who pays for the money invested into said firearms? Gov't kicks in $100 per gun? One of my scopes (just the glass) is worth 6k. Nope, a cute lil benjamin is NOT going to make me happy. And NO, I'm not going to surrender my property at such a devalued rate. 2. Such a program could encourage theft under a privateer type thought process - "break into this house and get his/her firearms, then turn them over to the gov't, collect my money and feel like I did a 'good thing' for society." 3. Do you REALLY think it's reasonable to try to collect ALL firearms in the US (even those illegally owned)?! confiscation of legally owned property will not fix this problem. And the real problem is not "fixable." How do you make crazy types not so crazy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #66 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote a single shot from a concealed weapons holder could have stopped this rampage. too bad they followed the law and didn't bring weapons into the mall. Absolutely. I believe another mall shooting earlier this year was stopped by exactly that (an off-duty police officer who carried his weapon into the mall, despite the fact that it was posted as being "gun-free"). When will people realize that bullets are far more effective at stopping violent criminals than "No-Gun" signs? and what would be even more effective would be for people to not be able to get hold of guns in the first place...... Where is this dream-world/fantasy land that you live in? Other things that would be good: Drunk drivers should not be able to get ahold of car keys. Crack heads should not be able to get ahold of crack. Rapists should not be able to get ahold of victims. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once people accept that, we will take a big step in the direction of making these incidents a bit more rare. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #67 December 7, 2007 QuoteWhen will people realize that bullets are far more effective at stopping violent criminals than "No-Gun" signs? I think one could take a "No-Gun" sign and sneak up and wack him on the back of the head. That would be very effective. A law should be passed requiring No-Gun signs to be easily detachable, at least 5 pounds, and mounted on a 4 foot pole with tacky grip texture at the bottom. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #68 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? I think he is trying to spark a bit of a larger debate than what specifically he thinks the problem may or may not be. The question becomes if others, specially those on the pro-gun side of the gun debate, think there is a problem at all. Maybe but my question still remains. He thinks HE KNOWS what the problem is so he can spit it out. I do not think he will cause then he would have to defend his position. For the most part on the site, I have never seen him take a position. He only argues what others posts. Not to forthcoming a tactic"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #69 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote So pass another law! That should do it. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong". However, recognizing a problem is the first step to finding the right solution. What is your solution? First - admit there IS a problem rather than denying it. I asked earlier. What do you think is the problem?? (I really do not think you will come out of a closet and let anybody see any real views you have but, I am asking honestly) The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #70 December 7, 2007 The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem. Alright, this is a start. Query, can you think of anyong on this site who do you think would not agree with your assertion? I cant think of anyone......."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #71 December 7, 2007 Quote The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem. Alright, this is a start. Query, can you think of anyong on this site who do you think would not agree with your assertion? I cant think of anyone....... Anyone who has ever written anything to the effect of "they will always get guns so we needn't do anything" is in denial.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #72 December 7, 2007 Quote BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS, BAN GUNS....and KNIFES and KNIFES and and .....HAIRBRUSHES, HAIRBRUSHES BAN HAIRBRUSHES!!! While you're at it, might as well ban pens and pencils. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #73 December 7, 2007 QuoteGunman goes on rampage at US mall The gunman used a balcony to aim at victims, reports say The answer is obvious. We need to ban balconies. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #74 December 7, 2007 QuoteIAnyone who has ever written anything to the effect of "they will always get guns so we needn't do anything" is in denial. I'm not in denial. I just honestly don't think banning them will produce the results desired. And (quite honestly) I don't want to live in that "safe" but "taken care of" society. ("Ahhh.... susie, give me that dangerous gun. here... have a cookie. Don't you feel better") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #75 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuote The problem is that guns are too readily obtained by mentally disturbed people (and convicted felons). I do not know the solution, but at least I am not in denial about the existence of a problem. Alright, this is a start. Query, can you think of anyong on this site who do you think would not agree with your assertion? I cant think of anyone....... Anyone who has ever written anything to the effect of "they will always get guns so we needn't do anything" is in denial. It is quite an assumption to say some one with this belief is in "denial". It is proven over and over that where guns are highly or totally regulated criminals and nut cases still get guns (in states and countries) If this is the case (and I know I am speaking in generalities here but for the sake of this discussion can we just aceptet that thought?) What actions would be required to greatly reduce the probability of a mental case or felon from obtaining a fire arm of any kind? IYO."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
